Your honest opinion of Moral Choices?

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Catie Caraco

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canadamus_prime said:
So far I think Dragon Age: Oragins has done it best where the only moral backlash you received for your actions, aside from any personal guilt, was from the NPCs and that tended to vary depending on the NPC. For example Morrigan and Sten would chide you for being too compassionate, but Allister and Liliana would get up your ass for being heartless.
It also had more than a "good" ending or a "bad" ending, every choice you made per quest was reflected in the epilogue. For example, the kid with the sword in Redcliffe. If you give it back to him he turns out to be some sort of hero with it. Also, some of the choices you thought would be good didn't turn out to be the right choice. Like, Harrowmount is a better person, a MUCH better person, than Bhelen, but Bhelen makes a better ruler for the Dwarves. I find it so hard to support Bhelen after playing the Noble origin, but he's better for the dwarven people. See, there really isn't a right or wrong there.

The other thing I liked about Origins moral system was there were no points involved, and the only scale was per character. That meant all I had to do was make sure I took certain people certain places for them all to think I was the cats pajamas, and so I could shag who I wanted to. (Almost always Alistair... I love him so much.)
 

Berenzen

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I like the idea of moral choices, however, I dislike the idea of morality meters. What I would like to see in games more is the idea of a choice-consequence system, where the choices you make have impacts on the game world. That way, it makes the player more invested in their character, makes them think about the choice that they have to make rather than say, "well this one gives me good points, therefore I must take it".
 

WolfThomas

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Not enough focus is given on the intent behind the action. Planescape Torment was great because you could do stuff like choose between "Truth: Tell me or I kill you" or "Bluff: Tell me or I kill you". Both would have the same effect if successful, but affect alignment differently. If it failed you could kill them if you chose truth, but not bluff, therefore being consequences to your choices.

It's the same way I think games get Good, Evil and Neutral wrong. Now a standard scenario, old lady drops her bag. In a game, helping her get the bag back is good, not doing so is neutral and grabing the bag and running is evil (or kicking her and grabbing it).

In real life (or at least D&D), the good person immediately goes to help the old lady without question, the evil person brushes past without even acknowleding the old lady's plight. Now the neutral person is interesting, he/she sees that the lady needs help and thinks about whether they should help her. Whether they helps her is largely irrelevant, its the thought process they use before doing so. Whatever they do, they will probably think about over the rest of the day, if they helped them they'd feel good, if they didn't they might feel a bit guilty.

It's the same with running a red light when there's no one around, a true Lawful won't even think of doing it, Chaotic will instinctively run it and neutral will think about whether he could or should.

This is of course just how I feel about morality and it is very hard to implement in a game.
 

LarenzoAOG

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I like them if they are done well or are more complex than "Good" or "Bad".

Alpha Protocol and Dragon Age probably did them the best to my knowledge, they didn't lump you with a morality meter, you made a choice and you had to live with the consquences, just about every choice was morally grey, and affected how things played out.
 

CerealKiller214

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I think their quite fine. I like them when their are not that obvious. For example you can support one person or another one but you don't know which one of them is "good" and which one is "evil". But I don't like the principles of good and evil. I like "law" and "chaos" more.
 

DarkenedWolfEye

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I don't mind "Good" and "Evil" moral choices in games. If you're in a setup where both playing an evil character and playing a heroic character (eg. Infamous) would result in an interesting situation, I like it. However, this only works if the game is fun enough that I'll want to play through twice, and if there are differing unlockable powers as well as two different storylines to keep me interested. All in all, only good games should attempt this.
 

ScrubberDucky

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If labeled as a moral choice, I'm not a huge fan. Using Bioshock's moral choices as an example, the ability to make a choice at some point in the plot is fun, it adds to the game, but only as much as another gun or two would. It's not something you'd sell a game off of, or even put in the box blurb.

Mass Effect and Fallout's way of making them are the preferable. They're not labeled as moral choices, they're merely how your character acts, and are often much more open ended and much more consequential than covering the little sisters in flowers or tearing their spines out with your teeth.
 

zileas7

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Bioware is king with morality. In the current generation, with Mass Effect and especially Dragon Age, they've really stepped it up a notch. More than two choices most of the time, no easy answers, occasional unforeseen consequences, no points, or meters, or whatever. I think the only reason Mass Effect still has Paragon and Renegade is as a legacy feature.
 

TonyVonTonyus

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There only good when you have more choices than to be righteous and pure or to floss babies out of your teeth.
 

CM156_v1legacy

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What I like is when there is a "Law vs Chaos" axis as well as a "Good vs Evil" one.

Rarely does an evil choice have any reason behind it other than averice. What about Lawful Evil?
 

The Virgo

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I like choices, whether story or moral.

In fact, I've been toying around with the idea of an extreme form (in video games, of course) of sticking with your choices and dealing with the consequences of those decisions.
 

Kae

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I like it when it's ambiguous, by this I mean you get to choose between various things and none of them are necessarily good or evil, very much like the questionnaire that is at the beginning of Elder Scrolls The Arena, I like this one it goes somewhat like this, There's a kid being chased by a merchant because he stole some bread, now the kid looks like he's poor and hungry but at the same time you also know that the town is in a drought so the merchant doesn't have much either, and you get to choose between helping the hungry kid, the poor merchant or doing nothing because it's not you're problem, none of this choices are good or evil but they do present a very clear moral dilemma and make for a more interesting and compelling experience, sadly the choices don't even occur in game.
 

Kal-Adam

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I think that moral choices in video games are too black and white. For example, if i don't personally believe in the "good" moral choice as it is, does that make me a bad guy. How come theirs only ever one way to be good, or one way to be bad?
 

Reptiloid

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My main problem with moral choices in games is that they're often just black and white. Needs more grey. And perhaps some purple. Why not a little turquoise as well, just for good measure?
 

artanis_neravar

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More choices should be like InFamous 2's ending, minus the forcing you to pick the ending that corresponds to your karma. If I was given that choice it would be difficult to choose
 

SirDerick

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I find that, if done well, they can be used to make the player ask himself what his values are. If they just boil down to "Good and Evil" that's bad, because the player already knows without reading what his choice is gonna be.

I find that moral choice can add replayability to a game: When I'm faced with a moral choice I ask myself: "What would I do?" and that rarely changes. However, if I create a character I then ask myself: "What would he/she do" and it usually ends up being funnier but less thought provoking than "What would I do?"
So the replays would only work if you start the game with a different mentality each play-through. But that's a responsibility of the player, not the developers.
 
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WolfThomas said:
Not enough focus is given on the intent behind the action. Planescape Torment was great because you could do stuff like choose between "Truth: Tell me or I kill you" or "Bluff: Tell me or I kill you". Both would have the same effect if successful, but affect alignment differently. If it failed you could kill them if you chose truth, but not bluff, therefore being consequences to your choices.
I remember a similar situation in the first KOTOR which rubbed me the wrong way. When the Jedi council oversaw your initiation into the order, and asked you to swear to stay true to the light side, you could promise, refuse, or swear falsely. But this conveyed information to the computer (and to the GM and to the Universe) of which none of them would be privy. At the time, I didn't know if I wanted to be a light-sider, a dark-sider or even a believer of the The Challenge [http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Potentium][/I]. This moment felt invasive, and was one of the points that ultimately drove me to stop playing entirely.[footnote]By far the biggest issue that lost me as a player was the tedium of the turn based combat, especially since it seemed I could not to be able to turn a corner without time stopping because someone wanted to ambush me.[/footnote] That said, I wonder if the incident in Torment could have been executed better by first giving you the option to threaten, and then later giving the option to confuse (or to torture!) had the victim refused to talk.

Regarding the original topic, I really would like to see emergent morality choices become used more often in games, which is to say, choices that come up due to the dynamics of the game, not because the choice was engineered as a story element via dialogue- or choice-trees.

The emergent moral choices I encounter most often appear in Left 4 Dead and L4D2. The most obvious is Do I heal my partner or save my healthkit for myself? The question really is, do I surrender my power for the good of the group, or do I hold on to it, in case I need it personally. In normal campaign mode, there really is breathing room to choose either way: Dead survivors will reappear shortly in a closet, somewhere, hence the manpower lost by death is only temporary. In realism mode, there are no closets, so a survivor down is a survivor gone (until end of level). Three survivors will have a rough time against some crescendo events or tanks. Two survivors are commonly simultaneously pinned by specials (or one is mobbed by commons while a special makes a meal of the other). One is a dead survivor walking. So it's really a good idea to heal others, and heal them early (e.g. the minute a survivor starts to limp; realism is not kind to those who will conserve their health to ridiculous extremes.) Downed survivors become dead if not defended against the horde, so it's really a good idea to prevent anyone from going down in the first place. Interestingly, a lot of players, fresh from campaign-mode don't respect this shift in priorities, oft to the unfortunate demise of the group.[footnote]Realism mode tends to make for a cautionary tale about people who aren't cautious or who don't listen to the rules, especially due to the continuous influx of unsuspecting newbs and veterans of campaign mode. I tend to play realism to watch the comeuppance of hubris, often magnified since the stupidity of one often cost the lives of us all.[/footnote]

238U.[footnote]In the event that Escapist requires me to view a commercial before getting a code, I will simply not post. Depending on the frequency, this may temper or cease my future participation in the Escapist community. Apologies in advance, if this policy prevents me from replying to you when it is proper to do so.[/footnote]
 

Vault101

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generally theres NO reason to be evil other than for the sole purpose of being evil..as often the "good" option will sort things out just as well..if not better (Mass effect, Fallout 3, Infamous (so far no spoilers), KOTOR ect...)

the only game I found which I think had REAL moral choices was Fallout NV..because thre was good and evil. but the real kicker was that ANY choice you made, even if you had the best intentions was going to screw somone over, you had to really decide yourself what was important and what you thourght was best