Your thoughts on 'Driverless cars"
- Thread starter Parasondox
- Start date
Recommended Videos
Then imagine that number explode once again because one of those anarco-hacktivists thought it'd be a splendid idea to hack the network that controls these cars.NephilimNexus said:
As for
andDrOswald said:
So all the enthusiasts would need to give up their hobby just so you guys don't have to do that "chore".Nukekitten said:
I look at cars like I look at PC's. Sure they have their everyday uses, but that's not why I love them. I love cars, and PC's for what they can do beyond the everyday chores. Gaming, or enthusiastic driving. And I'd be incredibly sad if people began to take my hobbies away from me just so they could have "less chores" in their life. Make it an option, not mandatory.
i think that in certain places, and for use by certain people, driverless cars will be good.
while the best way to have the cars is everyone using them (becasue that way, you dont have human versus machine, becasue human allways fails, becasue we are fleshy, and can forget to sleep or get distracted) we would probably have a percentage using them and another percentage not.
the best people to get using them are, inner city users (short trips type) drinkers (no drunk driving) taxi (no more being driven the wrong way to the destination, so the driver can charge extra. no more going round corners on 2 wheels so the driver can get there faster to get to their next fare) older people (human frailtes and bad eyesight coupled with aged brains just not working like they used to) rentals for non drivers and for those too young to be allowed to drive themselves.
everyone else would, and probably should, continue as normal.
my only real worries have allready been mentioned by everyone allready, except if i had a google driverless car like those little ones, i would want a humanoid shape inthe front/ hell i will even be satisfied with an inflateable JonnyCab style dude, so long as me swearing at him wont make him explode on me lol
while the best way to have the cars is everyone using them (becasue that way, you dont have human versus machine, becasue human allways fails, becasue we are fleshy, and can forget to sleep or get distracted) we would probably have a percentage using them and another percentage not.
the best people to get using them are, inner city users (short trips type) drinkers (no drunk driving) taxi (no more being driven the wrong way to the destination, so the driver can charge extra. no more going round corners on 2 wheels so the driver can get there faster to get to their next fare) older people (human frailtes and bad eyesight coupled with aged brains just not working like they used to) rentals for non drivers and for those too young to be allowed to drive themselves.
everyone else would, and probably should, continue as normal.
my only real worries have allready been mentioned by everyone allready, except if i had a google driverless car like those little ones, i would want a humanoid shape inthe front/ hell i will even be satisfied with an inflateable JonnyCab style dude, so long as me swearing at him wont make him explode on me lol
Even if that happens a few times, I don't see anything innate about self-driving cars that requires they be network controlled. A spike a few times before people start doing things properly is never going to equal the deaths from a constant effect. Over time the numbers will work out, regardless of how many you kill, even if people are stupid enough to connect them to a system that allows this sort of thing in the first place.MrFalconfly said:
(Not that it's not possible to compromise modern cars and make them do silly things already anyway. So in that sense we've already taken on the risks and may as well get some more of the benefits as well.)
Not what I said. That I'd be happy to see a chore die out doesn't mean that I support the summary shackling of anyone who has different desires. If I've got my self-driving car, I don't really care what you drive as long as you're a good driver. I might support making people pass a decent driving test for a change - because the way I see most people driving is atrocious and what we do at the moment obviously doesn't work - but as long as you're not going to be stupid with it, knock yourself out.MrFalconfly said:
Well as a European looking in, at the United States, I can only say that US Driver Training is bleedin' atrocious (it certainly is compared to most European driver training, like the ones you receive in UK, Germany, Denmark, Sweden, Norway and such. And yes the Danes have an equally high road-fatality-per-capita as the US but that's generally because of the older car-pool as a result of the insane car taxes, which is 180% of the cars price after the 25% VAT has been added).Nukekitten said:
If we're talking driving tests, so far the best one I've seen is the German one. German drivers are, IME, very good at what they do by comparison to somewhere like the UK or the Netherlands. In the UK, if you want to know how to drive as compared to how to pass the test, RoADAR comes highly recommended. ^_^MrFalconfly said:
Well they will get me to my destination faster and I will be able to be productive while in one and they are less prone to accidents than humans. Yeah I want one.
Doomed to fail, oh the idea is fine in principal and perhaps the tech is maybe even getting close to the dream however their is an underlying problem. The idea of a car that you can get in tell it where to go and it will just go there while you work or sit back and relax is NEVER going to happen. The reason being that someone will always have to be in a full aware state to what is going on around them for those rare circumstances where the shit hits the fan and all the computers in the world can't get you out of trouble (think modern aircraft which are more than able to fly without pilots but still have them for when things go wrong.)
The issue though we aren't talking about two highly trained people who's lives are on the line, who have to train and retrain and get tested on their abilities we are talking about Joe slob here the same guy who will happily try to drive a car while texting on his phone. Do you think that the average person is going to keep up to speed on how to control their cars if it goes wrong, fuck we have cars with automatic headlights and the number of stupid ignorant moronic arse hats (and they are deserved of this title) that actually tell me they don't know how to turn their lights on, that it was set to auto when they picked the car up and have never bothered their fat stupid fucking idiot ass to learn how to use basic safety equipment installed in their 2 ton death machine... well the concept that automating an entire machine to a level that encourages blind ignorance is frankly scary.
The principle is fine the reality is a scary world in which people get out of cars after a crash shrug their shoulders and go I dunno how the brakes work it was set to auto when I picked it up and never bothered learning how to work it.
The issue though we aren't talking about two highly trained people who's lives are on the line, who have to train and retrain and get tested on their abilities we are talking about Joe slob here the same guy who will happily try to drive a car while texting on his phone. Do you think that the average person is going to keep up to speed on how to control their cars if it goes wrong, fuck we have cars with automatic headlights and the number of stupid ignorant moronic arse hats (and they are deserved of this title) that actually tell me they don't know how to turn their lights on, that it was set to auto when they picked the car up and have never bothered their fat stupid fucking idiot ass to learn how to use basic safety equipment installed in their 2 ton death machine... well the concept that automating an entire machine to a level that encourages blind ignorance is frankly scary.
The principle is fine the reality is a scary world in which people get out of cars after a crash shrug their shoulders and go I dunno how the brakes work it was set to auto when I picked it up and never bothered learning how to work it.
I heard this from my dad just two days ago. He seemed pretty psyched about it since he absolutely hates driving but considers it necessary.Paradox SuXcess said:
I wouldn't call it lazy. Is buying butter instead of making it yourself lazy? Do you make your own clothings? I'm sure you always cook from scratch.
I don't know, a lot of groundbreaking inventions were made so they could make people's lives easier. There's nothing wrong with that.
People who complain can keep doing their thing and people who don't can profit from the driverless car. I see no issue here.
I'm a little creeped out by the idea to be honest. Thing is, I don't think I should be. With all the mouth breathing assholes out there who are driving and texting at the same time (seriously, I drive only about 3-4 times a year and I have to dodge one of those fuckers every time, they must be everywhere) it can only be an improvement.
I say bring it on, it's clear to me the human race is no longer fit to drive in the smartphone era.
I say bring it on, it's clear to me the human race is no longer fit to drive in the smartphone era.
There are about 11 million car accidents in the United States alone every year, with tens of thousands of deaths and hundreds of thousands of injuries. There is a sign over the freeway I commute on that tells me how long it has been since someone died on that road and I have never seen it go above 4 days. The vast majority of accidents on the road (over 90%) are due to human error. There is no way a hacker could hope to match the damage drivers cause by their own incompetence.MrFalconfly said:
No? Who said it was going to be mandatory, and who said it was going to mean no one could drive ever again? Get a hobbyist vehicle, and if city center freeways are off limits to driver cars go to back roads or spend your time on a dedicated track.
Frankly, the people who are selfish are the tiny minority who are afraid their hobby might go away for a simple matter of eliminating tens of thousands of accidental deaths, hundreds of thousands of accidental injuries, billions of dollars worth of property damage, and significantly increasing productivity and quality of life for a couple hundred million people (and that is in the United States alone.)
Because I need to drive up to 9 hours every few weekends so that me an my girlfriend can sell her wares at anime conventions. I don't enjoy it. Especially when my GPS directions look like this:Reed Spacer said:
1. Turn Left
2. Turn Right
3. Stay on this road for 450 miles.
May I suggest more strict driver training then?DrOswald said:
Like German driver training (last year there were 3520 fatalities on German roads. Which is a bit less than the 36166 fatalities of the same year in the USA. That is 6.9 deaths per 100.000 vehicles on German roads which is still less than the 13.6 deaths per 100,000 vehicles on US roads).
Hell by all metrics, US driver training is pretty poor.
As for "There is no way a hacker could hope to match the damage drivers cause by their own incompetence.". Oh I think someone would be able to match that tally.
Fair enough.DrOswald said:
However I never suggest anything about freeways, or city centers.
I was thinking this.
For the record. The speed limit on that road is about 80km/h (which is roughly 50mph). But you either need bollocks the size of boulders, or a general lack of self-preservation instinct to go that fast. But that's what's great with it. You can drive safely, and yet have fun on that road.
Preferably in a car like this.
500kg, and 82.5hp, making 165hp per ton
Or if in my case, the budget is a bit slim. One of these.
100hp, and roughly 1050kg, making roughly 95.28hp per ton. Which is hillarious together with the direct 1990s Peugeot steering rack
Even if we could match the numbers of Germany per capita we would only reduce accidents and fatalities by 50%. Even matching the best numbers in the world we will only get rid of 70% of accidents and fatalities. So we would be down to 66% of all accidents are caused by human error. That is still more than ten thousand and multiple millions of accidents caused by driver incompetence per year in the USA alone.MrFalconfly said:
How? No, seriously, if you are going to make the claim that hackers can and will cause more than 10 million accidents a year (resulting in more than 35,000 deaths a year) simply by hacking cars you are going to have to explain to me how they will do this. You are especially going to have to explain how the system completely fails to plug security holes year after year or how the hackers keep finding new ones.
Hacking is not magic. It doesn't just happen. There are computer systems and networks that somehow manage to stay secure out there despite far, far greater incentive to be hacked than the potential to murder some random person you don't know.
And that is fine. No one wants to take that away from you. Keep on keepin on my friend.Fair enough.DrOswald said:
However I never suggest anything about freeways, or city centers.
I was thinking this.
For the record. The speed limit on that road is about 80km/h (which is roughly 50mph). But you either need bollocks the size of boulders, or a general lack of self-preservation instinct to go that fast. But that's what's great with it. You can drive safely, and yet have fun on that road.
Preferably in a car like this.
500kg, and 82.5hp, making 165hp per ton
Or if in my case, the budget is a bit slim. One of these.
100hp, and roughly 1050kg, making roughly 95.28hp per ton. Which is hillarious together with the direct 1990s Peugeot steering rack
Take away "driverless" and we have a discussion form 150+ years ago.Lil devils x said:
Anyway I think you're missing the forest for the trees. Given that these cars can be hacked, and sensors fooled. Is that worse then the current system running the car? We simply don't have enough information to know. The cars could be hacked. Will they be in a significant numbers to overshadow human error? If yes then yeah ban it. If no what's the harm?
In many ways I agree. I don't think the potential threats are going to be worse then human error.DrOswald said: