Your thoughts on swinging/open relationships

[WolfThomas]

1. What are your feelings? 2. How do you feel about it "morally"? 3. Would you ever do it? 4. Have you done it? 5. How did it go? etc.

1. I think consenting adults can and should do whatever they want if they're all on the same page

2. I don't feel anything morally about it at. See above

3. I'm married. I'd don't think either of us would want a poly-amorous deal at all (seriously who has the f'ing time?) But there are some other married couples we know who if they brought up wife-swapping or a group deal, we'd give it a good discussion and consider it, we might say no ultimately and we wouldn't bring it up, but I don't think it would be a hard no.

4. No but I have my own sordid history.

5. N/A

 

[Redlin5_v1legacy]

Never understood it for myself but never dismissed it out of hand for others. If you can make it stable, safe and beneficial for all parties in the long run? Sure. You're adults.

Me?

Monogamist all the way.

 

[Terminal Blue]

I was in an open relationship (well, a hierarchical poly relationship, but it's basically the same thing) for over a decade. Honestly, it was great. I also learned a lot, so if there's anything specifically you're curious about I can probably give some advice. For now, let me address your concerns.

Depending on the precise nature of your fiance's rough upbringing, it may indeed be a major component on why this kind of lifestyle is attractive to her, but I would be very, very careful about attributing it to any kind of mental illness. People with rough childhood experiences sometimes don't experience the emotions of being in a relationship in quite the same way. That isn't mental illness and it can't be fixed with therapy (at least, not without many, many years of very difficult therapy) it's a kind of self-defence mechanism (called "dissociation") which children in that situation learn, and while it can occasionally cause problems in adulthood, it is a necessary part of how human minds work. Whether you think you need therapy is up to you, but I find the most important thing is to be willing to examine yourself so that you can have a clear idea of what you want.

Secondly, while there is no guarantee that any of your secondary partners will ever become "something more", it is important to remember that they are people with feelings and needs who enter into a sexual relationship with you or your partner to meet those needs. The kind of very clean relationship where you just have sex with other people but never feel any emotions towards them probably isn't going to be possible, because very few people are going to be entirely happy with playing unicorn like that. You can conceal it from them, of course, but that's a pretty abusive thing to do and raises the question of why you're doing this in the first place. So no, the chances are that eventually you will find you are emotionally involved with a sexual partner, or your fiance will. It needn't be in the sense of a conventional romantic relationship, but it doesn't need to be. The joy of living an unconventional lifestyle, I think, is that there are no "rules" in that regard. Still, it is a good idea to treat your other sexual partners like human beings and ensure that their needs are being met.

Also, if one or both of you does meet another partner whom they like and want to be emotionally involved with, then that doesn't have to mean treating them the same in terms of time and emotional investment. Some polyamorous people dislike the concept of hierarchies, but in my experience most successful poly relationships are hierarchical. The line between an open relationship and a poly relationship doesn't really exist, in this sense.

Several people have mentioned "time" in poly relationships, so I want to correct something here. This whole notion of time is predicated on the assumption that you're the only one in the relationship who has multiple partners and that those partners all expect the same amount of time from you. One of the great things about a poly relationship is that there isn't this intense pressure to always meet someone's needs. You do the things you're good at, or which you have time to do, and other people do the rest. Everyone gets their needs met, just by different people who are good at different things.

Anyway, on to the questions.

Anyway, I shared all that so it might give you all something to chew on when considering the topic as a whole. What are your feelings? How do you feel about it "morally"? Would you ever do it? Have you done it? How did it go? etc.

1) Overwhelmingly positive, although in your specific case I worry that it may not be something you really want, but rather something you're tolerating. That's okay, I started out like that myself and it got better, but I'm not self-absorbed enough to assume everyone is like me.
2) Possessiveness towards human beings never really sat well with me, so personally I tend to see the ethical compass as favouring non-monogamy. That said, all forms of relationships can go bad or even become abusive, and non-monogamous relationships do provide opportunities to screw people over if you're not careful. I think that's something to be wary of and to take care over.
3) Yes.
4) Yes.
5) It was the best decision I ever made, and I don't regret any of it.

 

[Derekloffin]

In theory, open relationships sound interesting and like that can work, and I'm sure there are examples of them working. However, it has several problems.
1. It invites abuse. A large number of these I have heard about, one partner is getting essentially used. This can go from subtle where there is no overt actions but just one partner taking advantage of the situation, essentially leaving the other out in the cold, to overt where the relationship isn't truly "open". It is only open for one party and that party tends to act possessive causing the other to be excluded from the openness the relationship should allow.
2. It is also a bit more dangerous for STDs. Now if you're partner is responsible, this shouldn't be a big problem, but anytime you toss in more sexual partners you're lowering your defenses to potential STDs. Again, so long as both parties are responsible this is a small issue more than a big one, but still needs to be considered.
3. It is unstable. Now, if you're not looking for stability, that's irrelevant, but if you are you're going about it wrong. This type of relationship is inherently unstable as people are with various partners and they may simply find someone else more appealing. Now, of course, monogamous relationships aren't inherently stable themselves, but they are more stable just as there is a commitment there that is much strong than in an open relationship.
4. It does invite conflict. Even if we assume you and your partner are perfectly fine with this, both parties may end up with people who really aren't, even if they initially seem like they are. This often happens with affairs in monogamous relations too, where initially the other person is okay with it being a fling, but then as time goes on they become more demanding of a more exclusive relationship. Open relationship just take this same phenomena and expose you to the possibility much more.

I'm sounding rather negative here, but 2, 3 and 4 are relatively small concerns in the big scheme of things. 1 is the one you have to be most concerned about. If you don't truly want an open relationship, don't go there. Not only do you have to be fully willing to let your partner loose, but you have to have the little self interest in yourself that this is what you want, not simply something you're doing to please your partner. If you're doing it to please your partner, that won't end well.

But, in the end, if you truly want it, and your partner truly wants it, and neither of you are doing it just to placate the other, all power to you. It may very well be the better path for you.

 

[bastardofmelbourne]

I've been involved in one (as the, uh, external partner), and while it was awkward at first, I got along well enough with the guy that it was pretty comfortable all-around. It helped that it was reciprocal; the guy was seeing other girls, the girl was seeing other guys. They were all very open and honest about it, talking about each other's dates, and so on. I think that's important.

In my case it ended amicably; the girl caught the travel bug, moved out of the apartment she shared and went overseas for a few months. We kept in touch but never picked it up again. If there was any animosity between the two of them I never saw it.

I still wouldn't do it with someone I was 100% super in love with. In my case it worked because all the participants acknowledged that it was just sex; it was casual happypants fun-times, not a serious relationship. That was an important boundary because it kept everything physical; it's the emotional side where all the turmoil comes from.

To the OP: Based on your post, I would advise pretty strongly against trying it. If you really honestly care about the woman, you probably won't be able to suppress the caveman instinct. And it sounds like you're still kind of against the idea. If you're at all uncertain about how it'll go, don't try it.

Maybe try a sex therapist. A professional will know how to ease into it and when to call it off if it's not working.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Relationships have a connotation of exclusivity. What really is described here goes by the name of a fuckbuddy.


Anything else will ultimately end in one party who didn't really want to go on with it being hurt or the situation being broken off because one of the members decided to actually be in a relationship.

I don't find anything bad in havin fuckbuddies, even ones you cohabitate with, but I do have an aversion to people lying to themselves in treating that as a relatinship or even a situation both members are happy with and expecting me to go along with their lie or see me as being rude.

 

[happyninja42]

I have zero problem with open relationships if everyone is in agreement on the relationship. I have zero desire to get involved in what sexy stuff you and whoever you choose to do sexy stuff with, unless I am being directly asked to join. Beyond that, I don't give a fuck (haha! topical pun!).

I've known people who were in a polyamorous relationship, and they mostly went ok. Though there seemed to be a common trend of one person developing a more singular attachment to a person in the mix, and some friction and jealousy insuing from this fact. I don't know how common this trend is on a larger scale, but every poly-couple I know has had this issue. But, that's only like...3 different groups so, not a really broad sample base.

 

[Shiver Me Tits]

Find me a dozen that work for 7 or more years, and I'll believe that it's possible. All I've seen, heard, or read about are people who think they're terribly evolved and clever, only to realize that they're basically chimps like the rest of us.

 

[Terminal Blue]

Find me a dozen that work for 7 or more years, and I'll believe that it's possible.

Define "working for seven or more years". Do you mean fucking the same person relatively continuously for seven years or more? Do you mean a person fitting into your life and being functional for seven years or more? Do you mean being internally happy with your relationship status for seven years or more? I mean, what function are you ascribing to relationships which defines whether or not they "work". What standards do you think other people have to live up to?

I get that if you're in a mindset where a relationship has to be this super important thing and it has to meet all of you needs and as soon as its over (because you're not regularly fucking someone any more, for example) you have to cut every trace of that person out of your life out so another person can come along and try to meet all your needs, then maybe you would want stability above everything else and thus the most important factor of a relationship would be how long you could stand to keep fucking the same person, simply because the transition is so disruptive. But don't pretend it's somehow necessary or universally desirable to organise your life like that. If you want to do it that way, noone is stopping you, but you could try something different if you were inclined. Pretending its impossible smacks more of self-loathing than genuine wisdom.

Frankly, I've seen or heard or read about a lot of people who think that any kind of unconventional relationship is impossible because everyone is just as bad at relationships as they are. If it was impossible, it would never happen. Sure, there are a lot of douchey people who use the alternative lifestyles scene to try and normalize their own abusive behaviours or personal failings, but there are a lot of douchey people who use monogamy to cover those same behaviours or failings, generally far more insidiously. Noone has the monopoly on douches.

 

[Ogoid]

As many here, I've no problem with the concept if all parties involved agree to the arrangement. I wouldn't go for anything of the sort, myself, and while I acknowledge this is nothing but my own anecdotal experience, I've personally known a few couples who did; none of them are together anymore.

 

[Fiz_The_Toaster]

It's really not my thing, and I really don't get it.

That's not to say that other people don't make it work since communication would have to be really good and for all parties to have boundaries and an element of understanding for it to work right. I've only seen one go down in flames and that's only people one party member forced what they wanted on the others, and it didn't end well. To put it mildly.

If it's your thing and it work for you, then go nuts.

It's not my thing since I don't like sharing.

 

[Kinokohatake]

I've been in an open marriage for over a decade now and I have to tell you it isn't easy in the least, much harder than monogamous relationships but the payoffs are amazing. To get an open relationship to work you have to be okay with constructive criticism and honesty. And I mean progressive honesty. You have to make your slightest grievances and wants known immediately. It is not easy and it's not something everyone can do. Some people get hung up on the sex part, that was never my problem. My issues always came from feeling left behind but I am also a very "want to be around you all the time" type of person, so our relationship has helped me realize that I can be alone for some hours or overnight and it doesn't mean I'm loved less, and the same thing with my wife.

Ignore the people on here saying that an open relationship is the sign of an unhealthy relationship or that they never work. I know several couples that have been together for decades in open relationships and they are just as in love as most other people.

But again, the biggest and most important thing is being honest all the time and communicating your feeling and allowing your partner to communicate with you as well. If you have any questions feel free to message me or even better, you and your partner find a local open relationship group (they're everywhere) and go to a meeting and talk to the people there to see if it's right for you.

 

[Shiver Me Tits]

Find me a dozen that work for 7 or more years, and I'll believe that it's possible.

Define "working for seven or more years".

I can't, but the people in the relationships can. If all participants are satisfied by 7 years, who am I to judge their impression of their own relationship?

I get that if you're in a mindset where a relationship has to be this super important thing and it has to meet all of you needs and as soon as its over (because you're not regularly fucking someone any more, for example) you have to cut every trace of that person out of your life out so another person can come along and try to meet all your needs, then maybe you would want stability above everything else and thus the most important factor of a relationship would be how long you could stand to keep fucking the same person, simply because the transition is so disruptive. But don't pretend it's somehow necessary or universally desirable to organise your life like that. If you want to do it that way, noone is stopping you, but you could try something different if you were inclined. Pretending its impossible smacks more of self-loathing than genuine wisdom.

Frankly, I've seen or heard or read about a lot of people who think that any kind of unconventional relationship is impossible because everyone is just as bad at relationships as they are. If it was impossible, it would never happen. Sure, there are a lot of douchey people who use the alternative lifestyles scene to try and normalize their own abusive behaviours or personal failings, but there are a lot of douchey people who use monogamy to cover those same behaviours or failings, generally far more insidiously. Noone has the monopoly on douches.

Yeah well, until I start actually saying what those other people (who seem to have left you a bit raw) said, you can just stop with the straw, and we can start over.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Anyway, I shared all that so it might give you all something to chew on when considering the topic as a whole. What are your feelings? How do you feel about it "morally"? Would you ever do it? Have you done it? How did it go? etc.

I've given one a shot. I've known people who have given them a shot. From a purely hypothetical perspective, I have nothing against them. It's easy to make intellectual arguments in their favor. For one thing, I believe rather strongly that it's not only possible but even LIKELY that you're going to have feelings for other people while in a long term committed relationship. We're socially wired for monogamy, not biologically wired for it. If you were free to act on those feelings, it would remove a lot of the complexity and stress they have the potential to create.

All that said, I think the people who can successfully pull off an open relationship without fallout are unicorns. We apparently have one in this thread, so you've got your exception to prove the rule, but generally speaking SOMEONE is going to trip up emotionally. Feelings develop where feelings were perhaps unintended. Jealousy can set in, if not over sexual contact then over time and priorities. Society at large won't "get it" and there will be lots of questions and doubting thomases to answer to at every turn. Anyone even considering it should be in a SURPASSINGLY healthy relationship with excellent boundaries, top notch communication, and realistic expectations. Anything less, and you're heading for trouble.

 

[Shiver Me Tits]

Anyway, I shared all that so it might give you all something to chew on when considering the topic as a whole. What are your feelings? How do you feel about it "morally"? Would you ever do it? Have you done it? How did it go? etc.

I've given one a shot. I've known people who have given them a shot. From a purely hypothetical perspective, I have nothing against them. It's easy to make intellectual arguments in their favor. For one thing, I believe rather strongly that it's not only possible but even LIKELY that you're going to have feelings for other people while in a long term committed relationship. We're socially wired for monogamy, not biologically wired for it. If you were free to act on those feelings, it would remove a lot of the complexity and stress they have the potential to create.

All that said, I think the people who can successfully pull off an open relationship without fallout are unicorns. We apparently have one in this thread, so you've got your exception to prove the rule, but generally speaking SOMEONE is going to trip up emotionally. Feelings develop where feelings were perhaps unintended. Jealousy can set in, if not over sexual contact then over time and priorities. Society at large won't "get it" and there will be lots of questions and doubting thomases to answer to at every turn. Anyone even considering it should be in a SURPASSINGLY healthy relationship with excellent boundaries, top notch communication, and realistic expectations. Anything less, and you're heading for trouble.

To the bold, at which point you have to ask, "Why am I risking all of this?" The naturalist argument that social constructs only keep us from it, while accurate, miss the point that the same can be said for why we don't casually assault, rape, and murder each other. Human beings naturally probably live a lot like Chimpanzees, complete with regular social upheaval, daily violence, and patriarchy. That's not an endorsement for any of that, since any human I've met will quickly admit that human beings have it better, socially, than chimps.

I have found though, that open relationships might work to an extent for people who just can't function in another kind of relationship, especially ones who feel "trapped" a lot. The odds of three such people finding each other seems low though, so again, unicorns as you said.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Human beings naturally probably live a lot like Chimpanzees, complete with regular social upheaval, daily violence, and patriarchy. That's not an endorsement for any of that, since any human I've met will quickly admit that human beings have it better, socially, than chimps.

Pfft. Hobbesian nonsense. The fact humans got together to form social decorum and civilization in the first place indicates a propensity towards teamwork and altruism rather than the opposite.

I have found though, that open relationships might work to an extent for people who just can't function in another kind of relationship, especially ones who feel "trapped" a lot. The odds of three such people finding each other seems low though, so again, unicorns as you said.

In the case of the OP, it seems the GF is driving pretty hard to the net for one. We can only speculate as to her reasons for this, but it might be a case of "Go open or go home". Alas, in my experience, an open relationship where one party isn't super into the idea is going to end in a break up eventually anyway. Just a protracted one, and likely with some serious drama and trauma along the way for all parties involved.

 

[Terminal Blue]

I can't, but the people in the relationships can. If all participants are satisfied by 7 years, who am I to judge their impression of their own relationship?

Why is seven years important then?

If it's all about letting people judge for themselves, why impose this arbitrary time-frame at all. Again, you're assuming that "value" of a relationship is longevity, so I'm afraid it is kind of important to define what you're actually talking about. What does "working for seven years" mean? Why is it important that a relationship "works for seven years".

Don't set an arbitrary standard and then say "well, it's not my standard, it's totally up to other people to determine success or failure". If it was, then you wouldn't have imposed any standard at all. You did, so you probably need to explain what you mean.

Yeah well, until I start actually saying what those other people (who seem to have left you a bit raw) said, you can just stop with the straw, and we can start over.

No. I'm interested in what you said.

You said someone had to show you 12 examples of relationships which "worked" for seven or more years or you wouldn't believe it was possible.

What exactly am I supposed to take from that, except that you don't believe it is possible?

You then make this random comparison between humans and chimps, implying that you believe that people do not have full control over their ability to be in relationships (and thus explaining why you think it is "impossible" to have a three partner relationships). Do you not think that is perhaps more indicative of your attitude than it is of anyone else's capacities?

Human beings naturally probably live a lot like Chimpanzees, complete with regular social upheaval, daily violence, and patriarchy.

While that Hobbesian view is pretty common, it's completely without scientific evidence. Actually, human beings cannot live "naturally" (to a much lesser extent neither can chimpanzees) if you stick a baby chimp in a box and leave it there it won't turn into a socially aggressive patriarch, it will just lie there and ultimately become unresponsive. Without social contact and learning, we don't become raging aggressive animals, we just become completely asocial. In fact, our brains don't develop properly.

The idea of a war between instinct and society is an old one, but it's kind of misleading. Social animals are instinctively social, they are driven to socialize and learn from each other and to adapt to the group they find themselves in. To them (and to us), that is "nature".

Incidentally, if you're going to use primatology as a model for human behaviour, consider that the chimpanzee/bonobo split took place after the homo/pan split. Humans are just as closely related to chimpanzees as to bonobos, and bonobos are generally non-violent, egalitarian with a slight tendency towards being matriarchal and extremely sexually promiscuous. While early humans probably weren't like bonobos, this does illustrate the flaws of using animals to evidence human behaviours.

 

[KissingSunlight]

On paper, I would be for an open relationship. In reality, I have a hard time trusting people. The swinging would have to be in a control environment. Definitely needs to be a mutual agreement with each other of what we would do and wouldn't do.

My suggestion do what you feel comfortable with. Also, don't force other people into doing what they will find uncomfortable.

 

[Redryhno]

I'll echo other people here and say that if it works for you, don't much care. It's weird, but then again I'm not into scat and that shit is a somewhat common fetish.

But again, depends, was this something you guys talked about early in your relationship, or is it coming up right now out of nowhere? If it's the former, congrats on the trust, if it's the latter, there's something that just rings alarm bells for me personally.

But, as I said before, it's your relationship. Are you comfortable with it? Or are you simply willing to go along with it for her sake? I don't know you that well so I can't answer them for you.

As a bit of a positive aside, I've been on both sides of the cheater line with the same girl while knowing each other for roughly the same amount of time as you and your fiance and we've gotten past that bullshit we put each other through, so if something does go "wrong", I'm reasonably confident you guys can get past it as well. Most people that go past a year in my experience like each other enough to not want to completely fuck that kind of relationship up like this kind of situation can open up the possibility for.

 

[Shiver Me Tits]

Human beings naturally probably live a lot like Chimpanzees, complete with regular social upheaval, daily violence, and patriarchy. That's not an endorsement for any of that, since any human I've met will quickly admit that human beings have it better, socially, than chimps.

Pfft. Hobbesian nonsense. The fact humans got together to form social decorum and civilization in the first place indicates a propensity towards teamwork and altruism rather than the opposite.

Chimps live and work together in troupes, grooming each other, hunting together and raising their young. They also fight with, rape, and murder each other. Sound familiar? As for "Pffft" that is not now, nor has it ever been an argument.

I have found though, that open relationships might work to an extent for people who just can't function in another kind of relationship, especially ones who feel "trapped" a lot. The odds of three such people finding each other seems low though, so again, unicorns as you said.

In the case of the OP, it seems the GF is driving pretty hard to the net for one. We can only speculate as to her reasons for this, but it might be a case of "Go open or go home". Alas, in my experience, an open relationship where one party isn't super into the idea is going to end in a break up eventually anyway. Just a protracted one, and likely with some serious drama and trauma along the way for all parties involved.

Absolutely, this does seem like one of the more clear cut cases of extending an inevitable breakup. I've noticed that a lot of "open relationships" involve at least one fairly young person, or inexperienced person. Keeping mind the tendency of all of us, to keep our first relationship(s) going on longer than they probably should...