Your view on emulators.
- Thread starter JWRosser
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Emulators are legal, but copies of games to run on them are not legal. It's not 'close' to piracy. It is piracy.
Anyways.
My view on this is simple: Emulators kept retrogaming alive before retrogaming was a thing. It wasn't long ago when if you wanted to play the old games you loved, you either had to hunt down copies of them at pawnshops and hope the hardware still worked, being absolutely screwed if a part got destroyed unless you happened to know of one of the few repair shops left in the world....
...or you emulated.
Nintendo got wise to this, and made the Wii a viable option for the emulation crowd, which is something you don't really hear them getting enough credit for. Not only could you play a lot of old nintendo stuff on it, they snagged some sega stuff... AND some Turho Grafx stuff as well. That last thing is huge, as the TG16 is a platform the EMU scene hasn't really 'gotten' good with yet. Suddenly Neutopia is playable on a home console again? Yes!
The other aspect of the EMU scene is patch-translating... getting games unavailable in your area. Look at the Dragon Warrior and Final Fantasy games that weren't released here as an example. EMU managed to fill this demand years later, until that company got wise to it, and put out their own versions.
Are Roms illegal? Yes. Is it piracy? Yes. However, this is one of the few instances where the piracy has actually been shown to create sales. The only reason the scene exists is to take care of a market where demand was strong, and supply was null. In other words... the companies were leaving money on the table. Now that EMU showed the companies the market exists, we now have a retrogaming movement from companies, who are re-releasing retrogames for us, and looking at other ways to get money from us we are more than happy to give.
Now, thanks to EMU, I can play Symphony of the Night on my PS3, go play Bonk's on my roommate's Wii, and finish off a dungeon in Final Fantasy 5 on my GBA. Legally, and all paid for.
Anyways.
My view on this is simple: Emulators kept retrogaming alive before retrogaming was a thing. It wasn't long ago when if you wanted to play the old games you loved, you either had to hunt down copies of them at pawnshops and hope the hardware still worked, being absolutely screwed if a part got destroyed unless you happened to know of one of the few repair shops left in the world....
...or you emulated.
Nintendo got wise to this, and made the Wii a viable option for the emulation crowd, which is something you don't really hear them getting enough credit for. Not only could you play a lot of old nintendo stuff on it, they snagged some sega stuff... AND some Turho Grafx stuff as well. That last thing is huge, as the TG16 is a platform the EMU scene hasn't really 'gotten' good with yet. Suddenly Neutopia is playable on a home console again? Yes!
The other aspect of the EMU scene is patch-translating... getting games unavailable in your area. Look at the Dragon Warrior and Final Fantasy games that weren't released here as an example. EMU managed to fill this demand years later, until that company got wise to it, and put out their own versions.
Are Roms illegal? Yes. Is it piracy? Yes. However, this is one of the few instances where the piracy has actually been shown to create sales. The only reason the scene exists is to take care of a market where demand was strong, and supply was null. In other words... the companies were leaving money on the table. Now that EMU showed the companies the market exists, we now have a retrogaming movement from companies, who are re-releasing retrogames for us, and looking at other ways to get money from us we are more than happy to give.
Now, thanks to EMU, I can play Symphony of the Night on my PS3, go play Bonk's on my roommate's Wii, and finish off a dungeon in Final Fantasy 5 on my GBA. Legally, and all paid for.
Emulators are a god send to me. My PS2 eats classics for breakfast. I have lost 2 copies of SotC and MGS3 before completing them. Not to mention countless other games which require crazy amount of blowing into them. The emulators cut the hassle of unpacking a console and blowing into cartridge/cleaning the disk. Heck some of the sega genesis games are getting re-released on PC using emulators.
If a game is no longer in production and a pre-existing copy would be too hard to find; I support their use. Legality aside I think it's the only reason to use them. I've hunted down games and spent a lot (in some cases triple their original cost) to own them. I've never had to rely on an emulator to get my nostalgia fix. I'm sure it will occur someday though. So I'm going to avoid future hypocrisy by expressing my support now.
Old ones I have absolutely no problem with. You are not screwing over the companies, as any NES, N64, or even PS1 game you buy will have been bought second hand. Nintendo, Sony, Sega, etc. have already gotten all their revenue. XBox 360, PS3, DS, or Wii emulators are Pirating. You are getting games which you can buy, for free. But say if I have a PS3 console myself, and am able to rip the game from the blue ray disc and play it on an emulator, it is fine. You already payed for it. It's like watching an old movie on Youtube.
I do not know about Nintendo or Sega emulators, but Sony emulators require a BIOS, a code that is unique to each system. The Sony emulator itself is 100% legal, downloading a BIOS, however, is not IF you do NOT own a Playstation or Playstation 2. It seems that if you own a BIOS, you may download a BIOS without it being illegal, oddly enough.
I own emulators for all Nintendo's consoles made before the Gamecube, a PS1 emulator, and a Dreamcast emulator.
I do not know about Nintendo or Sega emulators, but Sony emulators require a BIOS, a code that is unique to each system. The Sony emulator itself is 100% legal, downloading a BIOS, however, is not IF you do NOT own a Playstation or Playstation 2. It seems that if you own a BIOS, you may download a BIOS without it being illegal, oddly enough.
I own emulators for all Nintendo's consoles made before the Gamecube, a PS1 emulator, and a Dreamcast emulator.
I say emulators are useful when old games have lost their license or are off the market. It's not like the developers are making the money anyhow.
Anyway, PSX/PS2 emulators are alright, but I would rather it be use to read the disc you own since the computers can read the CDs thanks to the emulators. Plus PSX/PS2 games on the go if you're using a laptop
Anyway, PSX/PS2 emulators are alright, but I would rather it be use to read the disc you own since the computers can read the CDs thanks to the emulators. Plus PSX/PS2 games on the go if you're using a laptop
They are not illegal as far as I'm aware, they're only illegal if you use them for piracy reasons, which lets face it, most people do; even those on the official forums for these things who try to convince everyone they dont condone piracy and won't tolerate any mention of piracy. How many people do you think really own the games for the ISOs they are playing on these emulators? how many people do you think really connect to their real system to copy over the BIOS instead of downloading one off piratebay? How many people really use the emulator for the purpose of playing in a higher resolution and using anti aliasing, all the while having to put up with the shitload of bugs, crashes, and almost certainly unstable framerates that come with it?
Hardly anyone, thats who. It's not illegal by itself but what people use them for is illegal. Anyway I'm just stating facts here, it's not like i've never used one.
FYI im talking about newer emulators such as PS2 emulators.. Obviously PS1, N64 and earlier can mostly be played bug free and smooth, but then again the games and consoles arent available new anymore anyway so piracy on those doesnt even count in my book.
Hardly anyone, thats who. It's not illegal by itself but what people use them for is illegal. Anyway I'm just stating facts here, it's not like i've never used one.
FYI im talking about newer emulators such as PS2 emulators.. Obviously PS1, N64 and earlier can mostly be played bug free and smooth, but then again the games and consoles arent available new anymore anyway so piracy on those doesnt even count in my book.
I don't see how they can be illegal. The ROMs can be illegal because that is the property of whoever made the game. But I don't understand how an emulator can be illegal because, I it's not a copy of the patented technology, it's programming a computer to act like one.JWRosser said:
Fair enough, I'm not a lawyer, but That's how I view it.
I've never used an Emulator, it just didn't appeal to me, I didn't start seriously gaming until the N64 and my luckily forced me to keep all my games and stuff, rather than sell them and buy some shitty game. Although there are a few other games I want, so I might look into it in the future a bit
Emulator itself: Perfectly legal. The code behind the emulator isn't owned by anyone other than the person(s) who coded it.JWRosser said:
ROMs: Questionably legal. The IP is owned by the company/companies concerned. Then you have stuff like legal backups (which are allowed) as long as you don't spread them to other people. It's not cut and dry like people like to think.
Being banned for posting info on emulators is nothing short of stupid.
Is it still considered illegal to download ROM files for games that aren't made anymore? The hard copies of really old games can't really be found anywhere but eBay and if you download them, than the collector that wants 150 bucks for a 10 dollar title is losing business not the game company, am i right?
Well, it seems the Emulators are legal, but not the code to existing games on these.
Still, I think that it's moral - I've gotten an emulator to play Shadow Of The Colossus on, since I've seen maybe 3 used copies when I've searched for it. Got it, it didn't work. So, I own a copy of it on the PS2, but can't play it there.
Same with old GBA games that you have pretty much no chance of finding. Still games I've already payed for, but for some reason can't play.
Still, I think that it's moral - I've gotten an emulator to play Shadow Of The Colossus on, since I've seen maybe 3 used copies when I've searched for it. Got it, it didn't work. So, I own a copy of it on the PS2, but can't play it there.
Same with old GBA games that you have pretty much no chance of finding. Still games I've already payed for, but for some reason can't play.
I only use them for demo's, and even then I rarely do it, too much hassle for me to be honest, and they're always really glitchy
Emulators are great fun and ineffably useful.
ROM legality is an issue, and a moral quandary is raised regarding age and availability of the game. If a game is obscenely difficult to get hold of, the original developers and publishers have either closed doors or have seemingly abandoned the software, and emulation of it is victimless then download away and relish the high-quality games of old in all their splendour.
Now for the caveats: if I downloaded a ROM, which for the longest time was not in production, and it then begins being sold again by either the publishers or someone who bought the license, through their new consoles online hub (like Nintendo have done), should I delete the ROM and go out and buy a Wii? I'd say no, I'd have to be nigh on saintly to be that concerned with following the law and making sure someone who now owns it gets my money. If I can buy a game for their new console, and I have yet to download a ROM of it, I'd buy it. It's better to support the industry in all it's facets, even if this latest retro-download-service is a bit really obviously two faced (no effort for lots of income off nostalgia, and they get to look good for "supporting the back catalogue", it's all corporate BS). If I however happened to own the old cart, would I still download a ROM? Probably, since, while illegal, I consider my debt paid to the devs and publishers, since I bought it when money went right back to them.
Morally, it's quite ambiguous, usually these games have made their money and then some, and the new owners (or old owners who just now take notice) aren't being much hindered, if at all. In the case of Nintendo buying games for other retro consoles, and making good emulation for them, I genuinely say bravo and encourage people to go out and buy those. Effort has been made, and they're not very expensive.
Piracy of games that the developers and publishers still depend on to keep themselves in business, is still reprehensible and should be condemned by all gamers in 90% of cases. It's rarely justifiable.
ROM legality is an issue, and a moral quandary is raised regarding age and availability of the game. If a game is obscenely difficult to get hold of, the original developers and publishers have either closed doors or have seemingly abandoned the software, and emulation of it is victimless then download away and relish the high-quality games of old in all their splendour.
Now for the caveats: if I downloaded a ROM, which for the longest time was not in production, and it then begins being sold again by either the publishers or someone who bought the license, through their new consoles online hub (like Nintendo have done), should I delete the ROM and go out and buy a Wii? I'd say no, I'd have to be nigh on saintly to be that concerned with following the law and making sure someone who now owns it gets my money. If I can buy a game for their new console, and I have yet to download a ROM of it, I'd buy it. It's better to support the industry in all it's facets, even if this latest retro-download-service is a bit really obviously two faced (no effort for lots of income off nostalgia, and they get to look good for "supporting the back catalogue", it's all corporate BS). If I however happened to own the old cart, would I still download a ROM? Probably, since, while illegal, I consider my debt paid to the devs and publishers, since I bought it when money went right back to them.
Morally, it's quite ambiguous, usually these games have made their money and then some, and the new owners (or old owners who just now take notice) aren't being much hindered, if at all. In the case of Nintendo buying games for other retro consoles, and making good emulation for them, I genuinely say bravo and encourage people to go out and buy those. Effort has been made, and they're not very expensive.
Piracy of games that the developers and publishers still depend on to keep themselves in business, is still reprehensible and should be condemned by all gamers in 90% of cases. It's rarely justifiable.
I started using a PS1 emulator when I realised that Driver 2 runs like arse on the proper playstation hardware.
Ever notice that it took about 3 seconds for the ingame timer to decrease by just 1? Yep, that was the poor framerate holding it back.
On an emulator it's a heck of a lot smoother and a truck load more fun.
Ever notice that it took about 3 seconds for the ingame timer to decrease by just 1? Yep, that was the poor framerate holding it back.
On an emulator it's a heck of a lot smoother and a truck load more fun.
But sometimes you can't get hold of old games and the only way to relieve old times is by getting pirated roms?Ephraim J. Witchwood said:
Obviously the law has to draw the line somewhere but do you have to?