Your views on Demon Maiden Astraea

[Alma Mare]

Having just finished Demon's Souls, I'm still thinking about that bit of the lore. It's definitely one of the best chunks of it in the entire series, as far as I'm concerned.

So what's the deal with the Valley of Defilement?

Is Astraea really helping the locals as best as she can? Is all the chaos you see happening despite her best efforts?

Or is she playing the part of a Saint in order to lure the locals to feed her souls? After all the local Great Demons seem to be making the matters worse. The leechmonger and Dirty colossus are sources of the plague and poison, are the depraved also feel long past human. The filthy woman even claims the Valley got worse once Astraea arrived, though that could be atributed to jealousy. I've read claims of tendrils going from Astrea's lower body into the pools in the bottom of the valley where the aborted children dwell. That's... disturbing to say the least.

So, is Astraea trying to improve the Valley or just preying on the unfortunate to fulfill her new-found duty to the Old One? Did you guys found any evidence in either direction?

 

[sage42]

Both and interesting topic and one that I personally enjoy: Souls games lore talk! I prefer to think that she is trying to help, just that it's not doing any good, that it is in fact making things worse.

I could go on and on about how I think she is trying to help the valley. Or I could simply show you this.


Vaati is someone who's poured over almost every inch of the lore, so is someone whose opinion I tend to believe when it comes to this.

In short, yes I think she is trying to help. But Remember, as the saying goes "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

I don't have any. I never understood what the hell was going on. I just stepped through the fog, saw that the swamp valley weirdoes were venerating Astraea, who I guess was supposed to be a sort of Kurtz figure to them who had become corrupted by staring too long in the abyss, then proceeded to cheese her with a bow from a blind spot Garl couldn't get into. Never knew what her deal was.

I like the music though.

 

[Alma Mare]

Yeah, I've seen Vatti's video. He's on the "good intentions, horrible outcome" side of the fence. Which is fair. I don't agree with his interpretation on the beaks of the Depraved, though. I know the origin of those is indeed the cones filled with spices, but in their case it seems like a demon deformity. Maybe it wasn't always the case, but by the time you meet them...

On the other hand, I looked closely at the cutscene and I don't see the supposed tendrils in Astraea. It just seems like blood stains on her skirt.

The beautiful thing is that the stage is set in such a manner that both aren't mutually exclusive. Maybe she started out attempting to absorb the corruption and it affected her in such a way that she turned into a soul-grubbing demon. Maybe that never happened at all and she is indeed trying her best to help the Valley until the very end. It's all left to us to view it as we want.

The Dark Souls counterpart (which is amazing in its own right) is much less ambiguous about the role Queelag's Sister played.

I like the music though.

Easily one of the best tracks in the entire series, imo.

 

[GundamSentinel]

I don't entirely agree with Vatti's interpretation, as in that Astraea was actually doing some good in the Valley of Defilement.

Personally, I prefer another theory:

It supposes that Umbasa (God) and the Old One are one and the same being, with the Old One being both responsible for the Valley of Defilement's existence and the only source of magical power (including Miracles). That would mean that when Astraea entered the Valley of Defilement and wanted to draw upon God's power to cleanse the land, she was actually drawing upon the same power that was corrupting the land and she only made matters worse, even though she had good intentions.

Astraea then had a crisis of faith, supposed she had to fight fire with fire and turned towards the demonic powers. She just couldn't grasp that there was no way for her to cure the Valley of Defilement while the Old One was still around and slowly became a demon. She became part of the Valley, tied there and powerless to do anything about it.

This theory makes the player's actions more understandable, as you would be really putting her out of her deluded misery. She screwed up and you put an end to her folly.

 

[joest01]

Ha, Astraea. One of the most iconic boss battles in the history of the medium. imho of course.

She is good. And she is bad. She went there with the 3 knights. To help the locals. As God/Umbasa has forgotten about them.

What she has to realize is that actually Umbasa and the old one are one and the same thing. So the souls she acquires she acquires for the old one. Which makes her an archdemon like any other.

If you pay attention to her level you see that she is actually tied to the ground by red goo. She is corrupted and cannot leave. Basically she is waiting for you to kill her.

The old one the ultimately summons you as the most powerful soul remaining in Boletaria. The rest is history.

Will the circle be unbroken

 

[porous_shield]

I don't entirely agree with Vatti's interpretation, as in that Astraea was actually doing some good in the Valley of Defilement.

Personally, I prefer another theory:

It supposes that Umbasa (God) and the Old One are one and the same being, with the Old One being both responsible for the Valley of Defilement's existence and the only source of magical power (including Miracles). That would mean that when Astraea entered the Valley of Defilement and wanted to draw upon God's power to cleanse the land, she was actually drawing upon the same power that was corrupting the land and she only made matters worse, even though she had good intentions.

I don't agree with this at all. It wasn't the Old One that caused that place to be wretched, it was wretched before that. King Allant was the one that woke the Old One and caused the colourless fog to cross the land. Boleteria was what caused the place to be as awful as it was and the colourless fog didn't do much to make it worse.

Astraea then had a crisis of faith, supposed she had to fight fire with fire and turned towards the demonic powers. She just couldn't grasp that there was no way for her to cure the Valley of Defilement while the Old One was still around and slowly became a demon. She became part of the Valley, tied there and powerless to do anything about it.

This theory makes the player's actions more understandable, as you would be really putting her out of her deluded misery. She screwed up and you put an end to her folly.

She doubted her God's compassion is why she lost faith and turned to the Old One for the power to purify the valley and he granted her a demon's soul. The spell created from her soul has in its descriptions that "It is natural that those that take in all that is impure are themselves the most impure of all" so she was trying to purify the valley and do good. It's not so much you have to kill her because she screwed up but you have to kill her for the better good. Lulling the Old One back to sleep takes precedence over what she was doing in the valley. You need her soul.

In essence the player character and Astrea made the same decision, to do something wrong for the right reasons. After all, Astrea wasn't a monster, she didn't have to be stopped like the others that were corrupted into demons.

 

[GundamSentinel]

I don't agree with this at all. It wasn't the Old One that caused that place to be wretched, it was wretched before that. King Allant was the one that woke the Old One and caused the colourless fog to cross the land. Boleteria was what caused the place to be as awful as it was and the colourless fog didn't do much to make it worse.

Well, my view of the Valley of Defilement as such is probably just different from yours. Personally I saw the Valley from before the colourless fog as a nasty filthy place, yes, but not as a the demon-infested hell hole it became. In my mind its inhabitants were wretched, but not crazy and violent.

I dunno, maybe I just prefer dead babies to resurrected plague-ridden demon baby corpses from hell. The way I see it, Astraea hadn't done much to improve the situation, however much she tried. If she had, what was it like before she got there, I wonder.

She doubted her God's compassion is why she lost faith and turned to the Old One for the power to purify the valley and he granted her a demon's soul. The spell created from her soul has in its descriptions that "It is natural that those that take in all that is impure are themselves the most impure of all" so she was trying to purify the valley and do good. It's not so much you have to kill her because she screwed up but you have to kill her for the better good. Lulling the Old One back to sleep takes precedence over what she was doing in the valley. You need her soul.

In essence the player character and Astrea made the same decision, to do something wrong for the right reasons. After all, Astrea wasn't a monster, she didn't have to be stopped like the others that were corrupted into demons.

I'm not contesting that she tried to make the place better, but personally I think she was deluded by a God that wasn't at all what she thought it was. Maybe also a certain hubris, that she would be able to make a difference where others had failed.