You've really gone and done it this time Blizz

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Thundorn

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Feb 18, 2010
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My thoughts on World of Warcraft Patch 4.0.1...

Blizz have had a habit of Nerfing difficulty. It is something they have repeatedly done over time, but never to such a huge extent.
Some of the ideas that they have about improving replay value, are truly idiotic. Most studios try to add things to a game that people will want to do, that doesn't leave them feeling like they have just been kicked in the nuts.

Patch 4.0.1 has upset a HUGE number of people. Why? let me explain.

People who have played the game for years, whilst on occasion have had to respec their characters to compensate for minor changes in gameplay mechanics, their playstyle has never had to change a great deal, so they have been able to go into a new content edition, reasonably confident that their character will be equally as able, and in the correct gear.
This new change means that those people, after several years now have to completely learnt their characters again, as the mechanics have completely changed, stat requirements have now totally changed, and character customization has been reduced.
Don't get me wrong there was never a huge amount of customization available in the first place. Basically the game has been made even more idiot mode, but reducing the number of talent points you have to choose from, and foregone the usual "Think about your attack rotation" mentality for shiny symbols that appear on screen and basically tell you what attack to use next.

Gear will also be an even bigger issue now. Where specific gear would be rolled for normally by the correct class of character, i.e a retribution paladin would roll for plate gear with strength, stamina, crit, haste and attack power, where a fury warrior would roll for gear that has hit and armor penetration, there is now a mechanic that allows players to change stats on the gear they get, which means that people will just roll for whatever gear they can wear, and change the stats later.
Add to that the new Raid lockout which means that if you do a 10 man dungeon, its 25 man version will also lock out, so now you have more competition for gear, and less opportunities to get it.

Blizzard really do need to get it out of their skulls, that increasing replay value, doesn't mean just making it a more long and arduous process to get gear, or in this case additionally having to relearn your entire character. And in the case of most wow players, several characters. On the realm in which I used to play, almost all of the people i played with for several years, have now quit the game, because they are nauseated by having to re-learn their characters after all this time, and most of the challenging parts of the game now being super easy mode.
The game is now officially only one step away from dropping all pretences and being released on XBox live for the button masher retards, and that is that there currently are not enough buttons on the Xbox controller to make playing on that platform a feasible option.
 

Raikov

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Mar 1, 2010
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Seems like a nasty case of 'dumbing down'.

This seems to be really popular with game devs lately... just look at Dragon Age 2 gameplay.
And, well, Dragon Age 1 gameplay (if you market the game by saying 'This is the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate 2' and then release that thing...).

I really hope that this trend will cease in the foreseeable future.
 

AbsoluteVirtue18

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Jan 14, 2009
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Thundorn said:
The game is now officially only one step away from dropping all pretences and being released on XBox live for the button masher retards, and that is that there currently are not enough buttons on the Xbox controller to make playing on that platform a feasible option.
Wow, because people who play XBox are retards. Yeah, whatever...

OT: So basically, they changed it, now it sucks? Based on what you described, it actually sounds like they improved it.
 

Thundorn

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Feb 18, 2010
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Don't misunderstand. I play a console myself. What I'm saying is that instead of trying to appeal to the MMO demographic who like to feel like they are putting something of themselves in their characters, and can have a relative amount of freedom in play style, they have moved closer still to the demographic of people who prefer to just walk through the game being told what to do.
 

Keava

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Mar 1, 2010
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Sorry. I talked with bunch of my friends who still play WoW, curious about the outbreak of whining that followed 4.0.1 patch. They all play in server's top guilds, all are active in PvP both battleground and arena, and all played the game since it's release. They like the patch, and from what they say the situation is no different than the big patches that were put in preparations for Burning Crusade and Wrath of the Lich King.

There will be imbalances, especially when you look at caster classes, those always benefit from the initial changes the most because of how the archetypes are constructed. In 2 months, players will start gaining new gear, new talent points, the whole situation will be forgotten very quickly.

Rolling for gear is no issue, if you raid seriously, and that's the only case when gear actually matter, you will use DKP system. You will know what and when to spend. Loot distribution in solid guilds never was and never will be an issue no matter how much developers change it, because people use third-party systems anyway. And loot overlapping was always in game. It actually gives you more choice, enjoy it.
 

Thundorn

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Feb 18, 2010
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WIthout wishing to provoke a debate. It seems to me like another case of "Too heavily invested in it to admit its been screwed". Yes when BC and WOLK were released a certain amount of adjustment was needed, but not on this scale. And never before has the game been Dumbed down in such a huge way all at once.
Raiding with a guild im sure is fine, because there is still level of control, however not being able to do both 10 and 25 man raids in one week is going to cause problems.
 

smeghead25

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Apr 28, 2009
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I guess we should add this to the list of constant's in life...

Death,
Taxes,
and Whingy Fanboys who make a fuss and continue to play nonetheless and then end up just getting used to the changes until the next patch comes along and starts this all over again. Also see: What happens when Facebook updates.

I'm not a fan of WoW, I prefer my games to have grinding that means progression through a story rather than a bunch of meaningless and repetivive quests that in any other game would simply be labelled side quests. Perhaps they'll add a story in patch 5.01? Here's hoping...

And yet somehow the WF's would still cry foul.
 

Dexiro

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Dec 23, 2009
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Blizz have been dumbing down WoW for ages, it's what put me off the game in the first place.

When I first played everything was brilliant, I had to work for the milestones like getting a mount or getting decent gear from dungeons. All they needed to do to speed it up a little was add more quests to keep people busy.

Then I come back to the game after a years break and see everyone waltzing to 60, being given a mount at a low level and skipping a load of my favourite dungeons.

It was bad enough that end-game instances and raids were being abandoned with each new expansion, not they had half the game's content being abandoned with it.
 

Thundorn

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Feb 18, 2010
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Interesting. So someone like me who dislikes the changes, complains and quits the game, is a whiny fanboy, but someone who wanders happily along defending the game, the developers and insulting anyone who disagrees isnt? kind of backward methinks.
 

Audio

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Apr 8, 2010
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I wonder if this thread was best kept in WoW forums where they generally are. :]
Blizzard have been introducing changes for years, surely you must be used to it by now.
 

Thundorn

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Feb 18, 2010
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Audio said:
I wonder if this thread was best kept in WoW forums where they generally are. :]
Blizzard have been introducing changes for years, surely you must be used to it by now.
Not at all. I actually got banned from the Wow forums because i called the moderators nazi's. The were deleting any posts that read anything other then sunshine and love for Blizz. A forum by definition is a place for people to discuss and voice their opinions. But he Blizz mods don't seem to get that at all
 

Keava

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Thundorn said:
Raiding with a guild im sure is fine, because there is still level of control, however not being able to do both 10 and 25 man raids in one week is going to cause problems.
No it's not. Pre-WotlK you didn't even had 10 man version. In WotlK we only did 10 man when we didn't have good class balance for 25man, for alts or for achievements. !0 man Naxx achievement run including the Immortal title took 1 raid night.

Raiding with PUGs is just pure masochism anyway, i tried it, i gave up during a Naxx run that took 6 hours to get to the 'dance' part and then people kept failing for 2 hours, while in guild the whole thing took 4 hours.

As for the whole dumbing down. I can't comment on it. I haven't been playing WoW for 2 years, but i don't hear any of my friends complaining about it. The game was simple ever since BC. Majority actually enjoys the new mechanics of classes, hell i'd enjoy it too, because it gives us 'nerds' what we like the most - number crunching and theorycrafting.
And you are wrong if you think long term players never had to change their playstyles, i played a priest since vanilla, the changes to both holy/disc specs and shadow over the course of expansions were quite big, same with every other class/spec you can imagine. You can't compare dps warrior from vanilla to one from wotlk.
 

electric discordian

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Apr 27, 2008
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So you got banned for calling the moderators Nazi's! Wow that is breathtakingly stupid beyond all words!

Also how dare they make the game more accessible and make more people play their game, it is after all only for those who run high level with gear scores in the high millions to enjoy. I personally think they should scrap both the Windows and Mac versions and release it as a Linux only release.

That would keep these pesky normal people in their place and away from playing any games because they find them "fun!" I mean the very notion of fun sickens me.....

Wow is not fun people it is serious business.
 

Yarpie

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Jun 24, 2010
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I must say that I do find it interesting that you complain about the game now in "idiot mode" yet some people can't be arsed to relearn their characters. One would think this would be a breeze if the game is now so retardedly easy. Also, I'm not subscribed right now so I have yet to experience these changes myself, but have the changes fundamentally changed the play style of most classes? I know the hunter has changed quite a lot, but did any other class go through a change of that magnitude?

Also regarding reforging; I seem to remember something about only being able to change secondary stats (for example changing hit to crit etc.) and not being able to change any primary stats, like strength and intellect. I also heard that you can only change a limited number of stats anyway so it really doesn't seem that people can roll on whatever and then remake into whatever kind of gear they see fit. Also, as someone already pointed out; if you raid seriously you will be using some kind of DKP-system anyway, as well as a raid leader who is hopefully not completely lobotomised and has an idea of what gear goes well with what class/spec.

I also have to ask; if not making it harder to get gear and actually making people learn their classes, how would you extend the games longevity, because I can tell you that they didn't do much to that effect in Wrath. The expansion launched with some terrible raid content, which was completely cleared in less than a week, a loot piniata in the form of VoA and heroics you could pretty much complete in questing greens. Then they added the badge system, which allowed you to get high end level gear by running normal Utgarde Keep, more or less making all previous raid tiers obsolete. When they eventually released Icecrown they somehow expected people to keep raiding that for more than six months before any other content was released, which was a single encounter!

Now I don't know about you, but raiding the same instance for more than half a year and being decked out with all the highest level gear in less than a month is not good replay value. You know what is? Progression. Having to work your way through tier after tier, gradually getting better gear and eventually reach the last level of content. It's neither fast or easy, but it sure as hell beats getting handed gear you don't deserve and sending you into the latest available raid zone, allowing you to skip all the previous ones. Again, I am not sue what you consider replay value in WoW, but from what I gathered from you original post you seem to think that the system prior to 4.0.1 was superior. Sorry in advance if I misunderstood you, this little rant was more aimed towards the concepts behind Wrath of the Lich King as a whole.
 

Kwaren

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The Rainmaker said:
Meh, I like the changes. It makes WoW feel fresh again
I agree totally with this. Also my DPS took a 2k leap up so I can't complain at all. Gnome Mage FTW!
 

Amarok

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Dec 13, 2008
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Thundorn said:
WIthout wishing to provoke a debate. It seems to me like another case of "Too heavily invested in it to admit its been screwed".
And that seems to me like another case of someone utterly unwilling to admit that people may have different opinions than themselves.

This patch may not be perfectly balanced yet, especially not for Wrath of the Lich King content, but once Cataclysm hits the game is going to be better than it's ever been, and that includes a fair ramp up in difficulty.

Check out this guy's channel for a bit of proof
http://www.youtube.com/user/TotalHalibut