Zero Punctuation: Demon's Souls

[yzzlthtz]

I feel bad for Yahtzee and all the people he just convinced to not play this game. It is now one of my favorite games of all time, not just because of the ZOMG HARD hype, but because it was legitimately challenging and very little was actually unfair.

Yeah, it may take more time to beat the first couple levels of this game than it would to fall asleep through the entirety of MW2, but you'll really get something out of it. Go ahead and say it's "too hard," you're the only one missing out, because I love this game. Kudos to anyone who stuck with it.

That's the one thing about this review that really disappoints me. It furthers the status quo of games being overproduced and just hard enough but really not actually very hard, especially because the same game has been made like a million times, and people already know how to play ie: MW2. I hate first person shooters, mostly because the majority of them make me motion sick, but also because every other game is a FPS and the game-play is always exactly the same.

Demon's Souls devs were brave enough to actually do something different, and they did it damn well. It deserves far more praise than most games on the market.

 

[Ph33nix]

not very informative about the game imo.

 

[Hazy]

The 'supposed to lose fight' is an arbitrary, lackluster trope in the context of a videogame; removing choice from a medium defined by it reduces the medium.

I disagree, solely on the basis that it can be used, quite effectively mind you, to show that the enemy you're up against is incredibly strong. It's sort of a taste of what's to come in Demon's Souls. It's in the same sense that the game is telling you:
"If you want to live, you may want to brush up on the mechanics, boyo."

But then again, being able to topple enemies twice as strong as the Dragon from the tutorial, is one of the greatest sensations in any game.

 

[Azmael Silverlance]

that was brilliant

Whooa yahtzee pwned with this one. I was truly crying during this ep good stuff man good stuff. Some of the recent eps werent as funny but this one was from you hearth i could hear it

 

[Axikal]

The 'supposed to lose fight' is an arbitrary, lackluster trope in the context of a videogame; removing choice from a medium defined by it reduces the medium.

I'm going to disagree with that; I actually like hopeless boss fights, as long as they're pulled off right. The purpose of a hopeless boss fight is to either show you how impotent you are or how strong the enemy is, or both. For example, Bowser wiping the floor with you at the start of Paper Mario demonstrates that thanks to the Star Rod, he is too strong for you to defeat until you rescue the Star Spirits. Saturos and Menardi destroying you in Golden Sun serves to show that you're a wimp at that time and sets them up as the most powerful villains of the game. These could be rendered in cut scenes, but it drills home the point better if it's in an actual battle.

Of course, like with many things in video games, it depends on how it's carried off. A good hopeless boss fight makes you want to keep going so that you will eventually be able to actually beat the boss in a rematch later. A bad one just comes across as contrived and annoying.

Hear hear. Though, I have to say that for the most part, I just stick to arrows and distance to remove the more obnoxious enemies (Mind Flayers!). Demon's Souls has simply taught me to learn more "indirect" approaches to battles. And my first two fights with invading players? Holy crap. I was about to crap myself when I saw the giant titling appear: "A Black Phantom Has Invaded Your World". Truly a terrifying experience. Very gratifying when I won, too. That's the mark of a damn good game. That feeling of satisfaction.

 

[lyrandar]

Quick thought, shouldn't it be Demons' Souls?

 

[yzzlthtz]

The 'supposed to lose fight' is an arbitrary, lackluster trope in the context of a videogame; removing choice from a medium defined by it reduces the medium.

It is? I can think of so may things that might be "arbitrary lackluster tropes," but "have to lose fights" as part of a tutorial, especially a fight that is actually possible to win, doesn't come to mind. Even if it is as you say, Demon's Souls does it pretty damn well.

Everyone on here who is criticizing demon's souls without actually playing it: why do you waste your life blubbering on pretending to know everything about video games? We all like what we like.

Demon's Souls is a good game. I've spent over 100 hours playing, have beat it like 8 times, have killed almost 200 invaders, and have had a damn fun time with it.

So then all these kids come around to stand behind Yahtzee's sarcastic bantering to throw rocks at the monumental achievement that is Demon's Souls and it looks just like you'd expect to anyone who has actually delved into it : children boasting about throwing rocks at a mountain.

 

[yzzlthtz]

Quick thought, shouldn't it be Demons' Souls?

yes. maybe. i don't know. there is one big demon, maybe it's all his souls. or maybe you're really the demon, and it's all your souls. or maybe it's just one arbitrary demon's souls. whatever. they're japanese.

 

[Axikal]

Quick thought, shouldn't it be Demons' Souls?

Yes, and no. I hazard a guess that the title refers to the "Old One", and the "souls" referring to all the demons that have come about from its awakening. Hence "Demon's Souls".

 

[yzzlthtz]

Yahtzee, for whatever reason, probably gave up after an hour or two of play, and wrote a review for it.

To be fair, the game-play he presented took me about 4 hours to achieve....

 

[Photon987]

The 'supposed to lose fight' is an arbitrary, lackluster trope in the context of a videogame; removing choice from a medium defined by it reduces the medium.

It is not arbitrary in this case. The boss fight is still part of the tutorial, and getting yourself killed by the Vanguard lets the game address both what happens when you die and the Nexus/what it has to offer you. If anything, it is actually a rather novel way of presenting a tutorial.

Quick thought, shouldn't it be Demons' Souls?

Yes, and no. I hazard a guess that the title refers to the "Old One", and the "souls" referring to all the demons that have come about from its awakening. Hence "Demon's Souls".

Also, if I recall correctly,

Spoiler

isn't it said that the more souls you take in/use, the more you start to become a demon, yourself?

. If so, that could explain the title.

 

[Axikal]

Demon's Souls is a good game. I've spent over 100 hours playing, have beat it like 8 times, have killed almost 200 invaders, and have had a damn fun time with it.

I'm quite positive I never want to be "alive" again. Invaders wrack my nerves. And the game's already nerve-wracking enough on its own!

But I certainly agree with everything you've stated elsewhere in your comment.

Demon's Souls is an example of a difficult game done right. The tutorial serves only to warn you just how hard the game is about to get. And just about every single monster, boss, or trap in the game can be circumvented. IF you're cunning enough to figure out their weakness. And for anyone that claims DS is about pattern recognition: I defy you to fight the Flamelurker. Go on.

For all the cheapery that the game tries to toss at you, it's up to you to be smarter. If there's an enemy that can spam your stamina (Gold Skeleton), take higher ground and spam it back with arrows. Or get better equipment, and upgrade your stats. Just like any RPG, there is some stat/level grinding one must do in some cases.

Not only that, but it's a very refined Action/RPG that will ultimately punish you for not thinking your actions through. It's a game that challenges you to be smarter. God forbid!

 

[rdrouyn]

The 'supposed to lose fight' is an arbitrary, lackluster trope in the context of a videogame; removing choice from a medium defined by it reduces the medium.

It is? I can think of so may things that might be "arbitrary lackluster tropes," but "have to lose fights" as part of a tutorial, especially a fight that is actually possible to win, doesn't come to mind. Even if it is as you say, Demon's Souls does it pretty damn well.

Everyone on here who is criticizing demon's souls without actually playing it: why do you waste your life blubbering on pretending to know everything about video games? We all like what we like.

Demon's Souls is a good game. I've spent over 100 hours playing, have beat it like 8 times, have killed almost 200 invaders, and have had a damn fun time with it.

So then all these kids come around to stand behind Yahtzee's sarcastic bantering to throw rocks at the monumental achievement that is Demon's Souls and it looks just like you'd expect to anyone who has actually delved into it : children boasting about throwing rocks at a mountain.

Yeah I love how all the tools come out of the shed to gang up on a game they never played just because Yahtzee didn't like it enough to play it more than an hour. I guess these people never play a JRPG or a Mario game because daddy Yahtzee doesn't let them. Its sad to not have any taste of your own.

 

[Axikal]

Also, if I recall correctly, --spoiler was here-- If so, that could explain the title.

I hope not... I'm barely halfway through. I have to keep taking breaks or I'll end up breaking something! I don't recall hearing that in the game, though... But it does make for an interesting theory on the title.

 

[Potato21]

Right, now there's some things that need to be cleared up. You can in fact beat the boss that is supposed to kill you and you get a nice reward for doing so.
The game isn't THAT hard, you just need to keep your shield up and wear lighter equipment so instead of useless dodge you can dodge roll which gives you a split second of invincibility in the middle of the roll.
Thirdly, you REALLY need to use your shield at the end of the bridge in order to not get slain by the archers there.
Fourthly, after beating the "cow patty" demon you can summon other players for help which would help him on that bridge.
Fifthly, after beating the cow patty demon (which I shall henceforth call by his real name, Phalanx) you can go to all the other levels in the game and complete them in any order, the first part of the other levels are generally easier than the second part of the first.
Sixthly, dragon can be killed with a lot of arrows if you're getting sick of timing your runs and don't want to go in the tunnel
Seventhly, there are two rings in the very first level that a) make it harder for enemies to see you and thus you can have more 1 on 1 fights and b) increase your health to 75% when dead.
Lastly, once you learn how to stay alive it becomes a very rewarding experience. No matter how much you level you can die on the early stages since its as much an action game as it is an RPG and thus you need to become better, not just a higher level.

All that being said I was in tears laughing at this review. I just hope people give this game a chance, its my GOTY.

 

[Mstrswrd]

Common, Yahtzee! It's not that bad... okay, I have no place to talk about whether it's bad or not. I've beaten it 4 times, and am on "New Game++++." Also, if you think it's hard now, get to new game plus. Despite keeping your soul level and all of your items, weapons, armor, etc, the game nearly doubles in idfficulty, so all your stuff doesn't much help.

Third play through is the "I'm stonger than I need to be" playthrough, because after the second playthrough the game only gets about 8% harder per new game plus, so you end up leveling right past where you need to be, and then you can laugg in its face.

 

[GrimCW]

"Death isn't the handicap it used to be"

lol good review, even better obscure reference... loved that show i did.
can't wait to see what comes of the movie/new series idea's..

 

[nightbringer360]

To paraphrase The Simpsons: Unlike American games, which reward knowledge, this Japanese game punishes ignorance.

I was playing it before Assassin's Creed 2 came out, and I was loving it - it's not that hard, as long as you know what to do.

 

[zondervan]

Right, now there's some things that need to be cleared up. You can in fact beat the boss that is supposed to kill you and you get a nice reward for doing so.
The game isn't THAT hard, you just need to keep your shield up and wear lighter equipment so instead of useless dodge you can dodge roll which gives you a split second of invincibility in the middle of the roll.
Thirdly, you REALLY need to use your shield at the end of the bridge in order to not get slain by the archers there.
Fourthly, after beating the "cow patty" demon you can summon other players for help which would help him on that bridge.
Fifthly, after beating the cow patty demon (which I shall henceforth call by his real name, Phalanx) you can go to all the other levels in the game and complete them in any order, the first part of the other levels are generally easier than the second part of the first.
Sixthly, dragon can be killed with a lot of arrows if you're getting sick of timing your runs and don't want to go in the tunnel
Seventhly, there are two rings in the very first level that a) make it harder for enemies to see you and thus you can have more 1 on 1 fights and b) increase your health to 75% when dead.
Lastly, once you learn how to stay alive it becomes a very rewarding experience. No matter how much you level you can die on the early stages since its as much an action game as it is an RPG and thus you need to become better, not just a higher level.

All that being said I was in tears laughing at this review. I just hope people give this game a chance, its my GOTY.

Well put,you've more or less negated Yahtzee's review with this post.

I would put money on a bet saying that Yahtzee would have given Demon's Soul one of his glowing reviews had be played it prior to doing his weekly ZP reviews.
Perhaps Yahtzee should stop doing the weekly videos and just do things when he has good material. That way we wouldn't have to put up with these half-hearted reviews.