Zero Punctuation: Demon's Souls

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merkaba48

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Jan 19, 2009
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People will always get on their hands and knees and praise Yahtzee for delivering 'another great review' and then say they won't buy this "POS game". They're usually being idiotic.

Yes Yhatzee's 'favourite games' list has some truly great games in it...there are many, many great games that aren't on that list, however. And it is not easy to get into Yhatzee's 'exclusive' club, because he's such a bloody pessimist when going into a game. It makes for great comedy; frequently, it makes for great commentary on the state of games. However, frequently it also means he whooshes past fantastic games.

I have bought ONE game based on Yhatzee's reviews. I have not avoided any games because of them. That game was Lego Indiana Jones, and it was utterly, utterly boring.

It's a shame this game has been given the label 'hard', because it has put off a lot of people from buying it and potentially really enjoying it. I personally think this is a game that is completely worth the retail price, and will last you a long time. It's always a joy to pick it up and get a little further.
 

boyitsme95

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Feb 26, 2008
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EDIT: Am I the only one to notice that a lot of the people commenting are saying "The game is so awesome!"? That just made me giggle. Tee hee.
psycoking said:
gameking218 said:
I have Demon's Souls and must say I like it a lot. Or I should say liked it a lot. Yea see, when you play this game you die a lot, but the frustrating part is it is always your fault. One never dies and says, "That was bullshit! I dodged and his sword magically increased it's reach by two invisible feet!" You say, "Damn it! I back stepped as he did his heavy attack, which shoots a wind blast out! I should have rolled, backed away a little and healed!" You'll die and it will always be your fault. The game has this nasty habit of killing you once so you know what happens, so one-hit-kills are a normal occurrence, to the extent of every other level is either a one-hit-kill attack or something capable of killing you so very very quickly. Imagine walking and every alternate step your knee quivers, with a chance of giving out. You come to expect it, and your family will come to expect your screams of profanity. The reason I said "used to" is I have been playing the past two weeks straight and have not stopped, but the game has angered me to the point of playing Killzone 2 multiplayer or MGS: Online and contemplating never going back. See, the levels after 1-1 are open ended, meaning levels 2-1, 3-1, 4-1, and 5-1 are as hard as each other, but 1-2 is significantly harder. Now, I have beaten every single level, of four per level, until the only one left is 1-4, the last boss of that world. I approached the boss and after his health lowered to about half I was finally hit by an attack he has of raising one arm as it glows and grabbing forward. It was "Soul Suck", and it stole one level.
Let me say this again. In Demon's Souls you get souls from enemies. These are used to level up your character. When you spend souls to level a single stat, say Strength, it raises you by one "Soul Level". So 66 Soul levels means you upgraded any stat 65 times. When you upgrade a stat it will cost more to upgrade another one. So at level 1 it cost maybe 250 souls, and at level 55 it costs 25,000 souls, regardless of what skill you pick. Only upgrade Strength it still costs more for Endurance.
Now, I got around 26,000 souls and upgraded my Strength stat, allowing me to finally use a sword I had. I go to the boss and after half way he hits me with "Soul Suck", or as I call it, "FUCKING BULLSHIT". I lose a level and can't use my sword. I have no weapon. I pull out my ok bow. I can't block his "Instant travel up to you and swing" move. I die.
The short version?
HE STOLE MY LEVEL, NULLIFYING MY SWORD, AND STABBED ME WITH AN ALMOST UNBLOCKABLE MOVE AND I DIED.
Stealing levels is a step to far. I will probably play again. But I am sore. Oh so sore.
Wow. Quite a bit of bad luck. I'm not sure if you were using your sword two handed,but you can wield weapons up to 1.5x your strength if you two hand them. I got hit by soul suck twice when fighting the final boss, so I know how much it sucks. Luckily he telegraphs the attack, so I learned to stay the hell away from him whenever his fist starts glowing. He's also worth a ton of XP, which kinda makes up for the lost levels. Good luck if you still haven't beat him. Of course the great thing about beating Demon's Souls is New Game+. Demon's Souls is almost different game (and a bit easier) when you start out fully equipped. You feel a bit more like a hero and less like some dude in way over his head.
Yea, I know, but I'm actually a mage based class. The sword was a last resort "I'm out of mana AND spices (Items that give back magic)" so that I could take out the last bit of his health. It was gonna work, since I am decent with the sword, but the aforementioned situation happened. I am still playing, because I've helped around eight people or so in that level, killed a few dragons, etc. There is a lot to do in that game, but now I need to man up and actually fight him, because I even ran out of side quests. Fuck. Thanks though! Also, I did the two hand thing, but without the shield his attacks hit me for around twice as much damage as with it when defending, because it blocked magic, so I got killed.
P.S. I got more souls and he would have to take 16 levels for that to happen again. *****!
 

Koganesaga

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Feb 11, 2010
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To start, happy to see that somewhere between page one of the comments and page twenty-two, people started to think "hey Yahtzee has his opinions on games and makes them into funny reviews, but he isn't an omni-potent who can deem a game nectar of the gods or opium addict urine for a drug test".

Original after seeing his review I figured this game was absurdly hard, which actually made me want to buy it, because I was playing dragon age (great game, had fun) and was desperately finding myself in need of a challenge.

After getting home and popping in the game, it didn't even take me the tutorial to see that this game was by far the best thing I had played all year. Hell I ended up deleting a few characters determined to beat that tutorial boss, but when I did I probably could have had an orgasm with satisfaction.

The game is brutally unforgiving, this is because of the insta-save feature, hence everything you do is auto-saved, so no you panzy's who are ever so accustomed to being able to load after just failing at something or even making a simple mistake (I hit patches in the nexus, and my god I was pissed I couldn't buy his arrows anymore) so yeah this is probably a bit a speed bump, and a large one at that. For those brave enough to man up and climb over this bump then "the true demon's souls starts here". As many have said it's all about not running in shounen style thinking everything will work itself out if I believe in whatever, you stop and use that thing that is above your shoulders, of course if you haven't done so already it'll probably need some dusting.

Also just to criticize Yatzee's a bit review, mutli-player goes beyond passive-aggressive housemates, and you don't need to kill a boss to revive. For more details on a few key things that you saw in this review that probably made you want to burn ATLUS to the ground, see the gamespot game of the year award that someone was kind enough to link earlier on. Nice to see some people can enjoy a challenge without having someone guide you through it step by painfully gratifying step.

P.S. Despite having said that last tidbit, I in now way despise Yatzee and in works, hell a group of people and I gather together weekly to play games, watch shows, etc. however before anything begins we watch the latest Zero Punctuation, because it's awesome.
 

merkaba48

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Jan 19, 2009
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Yeah, I love Yhatzee...it is always frustrating when a game I am enjoying doesn't get praise, simply because many viewers actually base their purchasing on his reviews alone. Like I said earlier, I bought Lego Indiana Jones earlier, which got a generally favourable review, and it was a complete waste of my time.

Like I mentioned earlier though, I find this Demon's Souls review hilarious, because it is in many ways quite accurate - including the part about succeeding in breaking down a brick wall. I wouldn't know about the whole male character thing because I chose a female character, who happens to be quite the sweetheart (even if she does spend most of her time dead).
 

My1stLuvJak

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Jan 28, 2010
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Yahtzee, I loved this video! And I love Demon's Souls, too. Just made me laugh harder, as all the deaths are really accurate...except maybe the first one. Please tell me you got past the first skeleton?

I find that rolling to the side is the best evasive maneuver, but it all depends, really. If your up against someone with a long pointy stick, stepping back obviously won't help you as he thrusts forward. Facing a slashing weapon, though, stepping back becomes a usable option, as rolling to the side still gets you slashed.

If you were going purely for comedic effect, the video is a resounding success. But as a review, I can see why you did the 'Extra Punctuation'. Even in that column, though, I'm not sure that you mention how checkpoints do occur more often than just after you get to the boss. At least half of the stages have a checkpoint before the boss that can be unlocked...that, or once you open the boss door, the boss isn't that far from the entrance point. I find that most of the stages without checkpoints are some of the shorter stages in the game...I also think that this is intentional. Once a dragon roasts you in stage 2 (mind you, the same thing happens in the first level...maybe you should've seen it coming?) it's all too easy to run the length of the bridge without getting a scratch. Do this 3 times, and you're at the boss.

Personally, I wouldn't have wanted any more checkpoints in this game, as, odd as it sounds, it would make it too easy. More than that, it would lose a lot of the fun! Getting sent back to the beginning of the stage forces you to get better at the game - if there were checkpoints, I'd say it would be even harder to make progress, as you woudn't be getting as much experience/money (they're the same thing, another way the game is difficult - your choices are very important).

Games that make concessions to me as a player run the risk of losing my interest. Games should be challenging, and I think it's criminal that they're putting an easy mode in Megaman 10!

Back on topic, though, Demon's Souls saves every time you pick up an item, or change your equipment. So, if you have shit to do, you actually can leave the game as often as you like without needing to worry about losing progress, unlike a game with "save points" (I hate save points - being able to save whenever is a blessing).

Or, if you're a pansy (I admit, there's at least one boss that made me so mad that I did this and found out how to cheat), you can quit the game right after you die in order to re-spawn at the last point your game saved (so long as you quit before the game has a chance to save, putting you back at the start of the level). In addition, there are items and a spell (miracle, technically) that will take you back to the nexus so that you can spend your souls. Or there are NPC characters that you'll find who will take your experience and give you better armor or weapons - getting to that point with enough exp for a new weapon is progress, to me. When you die, you keep your items.

When you have to do a review within the span of a week, I doubt that you truly have time to appreciate hardly any of the games that you play, unfortunately. It also doesn't help that you admit to not reading instruction manuals, as they often explain the finer points of a game, without having to resort to tutorials (tutorials suck). Not reading the manual also gives me a reason for why you hate fighting games, as those pages show you how to do all the moves!

Last thing I'll say, here: maybe it's because I've played so many retro games that I can appreciate a game like Demon's Souls. When you play certain NES games, you have to beat them from start to finish in one sitting, else leave your system on for hours. Demon's Souls is pretty unforgiving, but it does give you checkpoints and saves...I'd say you get them often enough to stave off frustration. That first level is MEANT to be frustrating, though! When the game sends you to the nexus for the first time, that's not the end of the tutorial. After beating the Phalanx and gaining the ability to spend your souls on level ups - THAT is the end of the tutorial. From then on, at least for me, the game became FAR easier

I've gone on for too long, though. I watch and read your stuff for the comedy, not for serious recommendation. I just hope that your ramblings don't turn people off of a legitimately good game; one that, I would argue, can't be understood in a week.
 

BlackieLime

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Feb 16, 2010
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In all honesty, I don't think that Yahtzee's review did this game justice, just so many aspects of it were either omitted, forgotten, or just not funny enough to talk about maybe. And I don't know how thoroughly, (if thorough at all) he played this game, because there is nothing unfair about it, and dodging and blocking all work extremely well. At no point in this game can you legitimately say, "That was unfair, there's no way I can do that." Whenever you die, and you will, at least on your first few hours, you know that it was your fault, there's never a time where it was unfair, if you die, it's your own fault, for not being careful, not blocking, not dodging, etc.
 

mervellious

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Nov 21, 2009
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I'm not going to lie...I thought everything he said was true, but I still love the game. Just beat it a few days ago and my senses truly are numb. The concrete wall was sufficiently smashed with one's head! ^_^
 

Hawkian

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Feb 25, 2010
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This review was hilarious, and actually mirrored my experience with my first four hours in DS. But the key is, I didn't say "fuck you, Demon's Souls" at the part Yahtzee did, I said "fuck, I am beating this level by the end of the night." And I kept going. And I beat the Tower Knight. And felt my bones flood with relief and accomplishment, and leveled my character a bunch, and felt ready for anything.

And then I tried 4-1... and died to the first enemy I saw 20 feet from the start of the level. But I kept going. And soon I could take those skeletons down in 5 seconds a piece. And I struggled carefully forward, got some delicious revenge on a certain tutorial boss, and eventually stabbed the Adjudicator into a cold, silent grave.

Soon I beat another level, and another level, and another. The feeling of incredible achievement never goes away. That is not something many games can pull off. And though the initial hours of fumbling inexperience are difficult, they give way to a level of skill-based play that is simply unmatched. By the time you've beaten a handful of levels and collected tens of thousands of demon's souls (awkward as it may sound... and it does... it makes sense in context: boss demons are composed of masses of souls of lesser demons), you may still find yourself frustrated when you die unexpectedly; but you will be frustrated with yourself for mistiming a dodge, not looking before you leapt, running into a new room too confidently- not angry at the game for being unfair.

What I really want to say is this. If this review is the most information you've been exposed to about this game, please also consider that it was Gamespot's Game of the Year, beating out some pretty hefty competition. And it was with good reason.

The comparisons made to "I Wanna Be the Guy" are idiotic, and this is why:

IWBTG was made to BE like old, difficult games such as Megaman, and take the inherent difficulty presented by those games and simply maximize it to the most frustrating extreme.

Demon's Souls FEELS like those old games, because of the way it makes you play. For me, it was a feeling that hadn't been evoked in me as a gamer for years. You couldn't simply progress in Super Mario Bros. by continuing to play it for enough time until you saw the ending credits. If you ran out of lives, it was "game over." Think about what that phrase really means, and think about how often it's seen in modern games and how different a connotation it carries. In SMB you literally had to START A NEW GAME after you saw those words.

Demon's Souls isn't THAT unforgiving. But it truly does evoke the same feelings. If you were lucky enough to be a gamer when Battletoads was released for NES: remember thinking to yourself, "I can't believe how far I am making it now when an hour ago I couldn't even beat the second level, I can't give up now no matter what gets thrown at me, and I wonder what's next" then this game simply is, unequivocally, for you. You will love it, and you will pour MMO-style quantities of time into it. Seriously, it offers hundreds of hours of replayability if you let it, be it a month after your first playthrough or years later when you've forgotten the weaknesses of each boss. You can make characters that play nothing like each other at all. You can explore the worlds in almost any order you desire. You can play multiple New Game+'s, and the max level is something like 700... I'm sure I'll never hit it.

The number of comments on the first few pages of this thread calling the game "terrible" are kind of a joke. It is epically, cosmically good. It is reason enough to own a PS3. It MAY- absolutely possible- be too hard for you. But it is one of the defining games of this generation, and will likely be remembered as a classic for decades.
 

OverDoseD764

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Mar 22, 2010
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amen to that my friend im still playing it oddly enuf it was Yahtzee's review that made me pick it up again (i forgot i had it after i played Borderlands with my 3 friends and went apeshit crazy about guns and stats)
 

funglip

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Mar 23, 2010
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I'm NOT really good at action games (couldn't beat DMC or Ninja Gaiden) but I did managed to beat Demon's souls. The hardest part is the beginning. Once you figure how things work, it's not that hard. It requires brain power, not quick reflex.
 

EABlair03

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Mar 25, 2010
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I guess I should just ignore any review I see from Yahtzee ever again, because I've played Demon's Souls and I love it. It's not really as difficult as everyone says, it's just that there's just a few nuances that aren't really that emphasized in the instruction manual (although just spending about two minutes reading any sort of beginner's guide on the internet will tell you the important things).

One example would be the back-step that was lamented in the review; if your character has equipped a certain amount of weight in armor/weapons/whatever, any sort of quick movement (i.e. a roll, dash or back-step) will be significantly slowed down. So, let's say a professional game reviewer pops in the disc and picks the pseudo-default class of the knight (you know, the guy on the box art), who wears incredibly heavy armor and packs two swords and a medium shield. You will be well over the limit that would allow you to dodge like another class, for example the thief or royal class.

A legitimate criticism would be to say that "there is no point in wearing the encumbering, heavy armor as pretty much one really strong attack would probably be enough to kill a new player so you might as well get used to doging and playing defensively." An ignorant complaint would be to say that a game mechanic you don't understand (because you didn't take the time to read anything more than the one-sentence tutorial messages) is broken or pointless.

Anyway, I know that Yahtzee probably doesn't even read these comments. I just want other people to know that this game is actually good if you like situations where you have to exercise caution and observation (for Christ's sake, there's a giant pile of charred, smoking corpses wherever that dragon torches the bridge). Just watch the Gamespot Game of the Year award video for 2009; there is a reason so many people like this game. Don't just flippantly say "lol I like winning sso Im definatly not going to pick this up lol yahtzee" based on an arbitrarily negative review. At least go rent it if it sounds interesting.

IN SUMMATION: YAHTZEE'S JOB = BE TROLL IN REAL LIFE. GO THINK FOR YOURSELF, YOU PRETENTIOUS, TOO-EDGY-FOR-ANYTHING-MILDLY-POPULAR IDIOTS.

EDIT: I guess I should take the time to read the latest posts in a thread, because many other people have said what I just did, but in much more elegant, detailed ways. Particularly this:

"Whenever you die, and you will, at least on your first few hours, you know that it was your fault, there's never a time where it was unfair, if you die, it's your own fault, for not being careful, not blocking, not dodging, etc."

Well done, everyone else.
 

Okamipsychonaut

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Mar 30, 2010
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I know some poison swamp level in this game got a top ten worst enemy of the year in a well known gaming magazine..or it was the creator of the game actually....yeah. after loving Bethesda games that were challenging yet possible...this game was tough shy of the crap pile....I should have listened to the guy at the store who said he played for mega hours to get to level 1.5...and not be so desperate soon after I bought a Bioware T shirt for loving the KOTR games....NOT anticipating Mass Effect 2 or Dragon Age: Origins.
 
Jun 30, 2009
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Okamipsychonaut said:
I know some poison swamp level in this game got a top ten worst enemy of the year in a well known gaming magazine..or it was the creator of the game actually....yeah. after loving Bethesda games that were challenging yet possible...this game was tough shy of the crap pile....I should have listened to the guy at the store who said he played for mega hours to get to level 1.5...and not be so desperate soon after I bought a Bioware T shirt for loving the KOTR games....NOT anticipating Mass Effect 2 or Dragon Age: Origins.
No offense you really suck at games if you can't beat at least a few levels. My friend sucks at video games, absolutely horrible, I handed him frickin Rolando on an iPhone and he struggled to understand the basic concepts of movement and such. He bought this game because he saw me playing it and thought it looked cool (I was level grinding on an old level too, so it didn't look hard to him). It took him 13 hours, but he beat the first level. It took me 4 hours to beat the first level when I first played it. Now, that same friend's data erased entirely from his PS3, so to save him the 13 hours I beat the first level for him. It took me about 30 minutes. I didn't die once and I don't think I took damage until the boss.

It's not an unfairly hard game, you just need to learn the ins and outs of blocking and dodging to survive, then learn some good spells and miracles and make sure you upgrade towards a specific build as your goal (for example, I'm a magic and intelligence build, so I upgraded those, got strength to 24 and everything else to about 18 so I could wield everything I want). Put just a little time in the game and you'll start having fun. Then keep playing and really learn how to play the game and it'll become one of your favorites, like me. I now have a spell called Firestorm, which has killed 2 out of the last 3 boss Demons I've fought in about two hits since I have high magic (Old Hero and Maneaters both in 2, Old Monk required more hits). The game becomes all about preserving resources and being careful.

And the worst enemy of the year was probably the Giant Goblin. Those things are evil. Luckily I have strong magic and can kill them from a distance and can even avoid a lot of them using the Thief's Ring....

Yes this all sounds complicated but it's a deep game with an unmatched sense of satisfaction. Considering how amazingly incomprehensible your post is I'm not surprised you found a game with any sense of depth hard. You along with Yahtzee probably didn't realize that after beating the first level you can look for Soul Signs to call Blue Phantoms (other players who want to recover their body) in to play co-op with you to beat the level. Also that if you die you don't need to kill a boss to get your body back you can a) help someone beat a level and get it back or b) invade their game, kill them and steal their body.

Neither of you realized that the Cling Ring, found in the first level, changes that 50% health reduction to a 20-30% reduction when worn.

It's a deep game and unless you have a good mind for such things, stay away. Everyone else, and I mean anyone who's not stupid, try it.
 

Azure Mirage

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Feb 6, 2009
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If you hated this then don't play Resonance of Fate. The Japanese managed to capture my love of guns (being I'm American) and my love of flipping round like I'm Tequila Yuen (Being I'm American and love action movies) and then ramped the difficulty curve to the point where I don't give anymore.
 

Mammon

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Jan 20, 2010
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This review actually worked as an introduction for me. Bought it a little while back, when the bargain edition came out. Although I can tell this is not a game which fucks around, it's not as hard as many claim it to be.
 

Ickorus

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Mar 9, 2009
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As Mammon said, this review was an introduction to me too.

I love difficult games and any games i do play i go for hard difficulty just to make it a bit of a challenge.

I've already pre-ordered Black Phantom Edition for european release.
 

Chieffw

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Aug 18, 2008
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You can see a fair review of this game at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnyVo3XWqV0

It's twice as funny :p
 

MAUSZX

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May 7, 2009
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This game is awesome.
But yeah is frustating.
And the review is the best of ZP