Zero Punctuation: Eve Online

[Harmor]

Hey everyone, first post here and all. I've played Eve from Beta until 2005, and then on and off until late 2007, and I honestly think it got gradually worse and moved away from how it was originally. The piracy part of the game was made increasingly difficult because of carebears crying out loud on the forums. First they introduced low sec sentry guns at gates, well, pirates found a way around it. Then they changed the security loss system, well, pirates found a way to work with that. Then warp to zero is introduced, which suddenly required pirates to bring bigger numbers. Then the empire war system was changed around to make it no longer valid, and it was changed again to make it even less of an option. So woop-di-friggin-do, piracy gets gradually pushed to 0.0, which is maybe where it belongs, I won't argue that, but lets look at the reality of things - there isn't enough 0.0 left. Its all hogged by player alliances the size of a small european country.

Those who rather play in small numbers, with a core of good friends in the corp working together, are left to rot in empire. That is something that was WAY different in the beginning of Eve. Notice please that empire piracy only began coming to life back then because there was no serious need to go to 0.0 for many players. Pirates tend to roam where their prey is, right? I never wanted cheap kills or zero risk PvP, I (and many others who chose piracy) didn't want to play with 1000+ players to achieve anything. That is my main point and what all these changes have basically left players with who want to achieve anything significant in the game. I have to add here though that I was, infact, in a few 0.0 alliances during my run in Eve, but usually only for a short while. The old Curse Alliance in 2004/2005 (I was in Atuk) and then in Forsaken Empire (Space Invaders) if anybody reading this is an old enough player to remember them, and both were great fun, but sadly an exception to the other experiences I made in 0.0 alliances.

The idea of skilltraining while you are offline is actually something I like other than Yahtzee, but when you think of it, it takes months and months to be able to get into a ship that is better than averagely fitted and piloted (these days anyways, also was different back then). That, especially considering Yahtzee started the game with a noob character, can be very off-putting I suppose, especially because Eve went live 5 years ago and you KNOW that you won't catch up to any player who started out way before you. So while I think that you can't judge Eve within 2 weeks of trial, Yahtzee has made a few very valid points on the state of Eve today.

Last but not least, with all the added content CCP have put into the game, Eve is no longer a grind-free game (I think it was in its early days). Ships and equipment that was added later on (all the Tech 2 stuff) is so high in price that infact, you are now grinding for money while before, if you were a bit smart you could get by (I am talking from a PvP/pirate perspective here) just on the pirate/PvP'er profession you picked in the game. That is no longer possible. So you are left with PvE missions, mining or npc hunting which all are mind-boggingly boring, and an insane time sink on top of that. I tried and hated it, and honestly, I am not playing a mmo to fight npc's (which is why I shun the genre meanwhile and why I could never play any other mmo to begin with). And then, along comes factional warfare, PvP for empire people on a supposedly grand scale. I wasn't around in the game anymore to try it (and prolly wouldn't have the faction standing to do so anyways), but its all just artificially added empire PvP with nothing but a canonic meaning. I don't care for that in the slightest honestly, but I digress .. those like me who prefer small scale skirmish PvP have most likely left the game already too.

 

[yourkie1921]

yes but in the snickers bar example you you get caught and the store owner calls the police (in this case CCP) the cops dont tell the shop owner "welcome to life" whereas in the game they will tell you "welcome to EVE" because unless you use an exploit, it IS allowed to do it.
The first time I ever got scammed, I petitioned CCP an they told me that scamming is a part of the game and to "get used to it"
and as far as THESE guys go they seem to be the rejects that get banned from other games and come to EVE because its a haven for those guys. What gets you banned in other games is usually cool in EVE.

Scams only effect the naive, get used to it. Also if someone scams you I think you're allowed to shoot them. I couldn't imagine that you can't.

 

[Harmor]

Scams only effect the naive, get used to it. Also if someone scams you I think you're allowed to shoot them. I couldn't imagine that you can't.

No, you can't shoot players who scammed you. Market scams or whatever you think of are not tied to the criminal timer that a player gets put on him after actually shooting someone else, in which case I believe said evildoer is fair game to anybody within 15 minutes (in empire anyways). I might not be 100% accurate on the criminal timer thing cause they probably changed that meanwhile, but scamming and corp theft never had any ingame repercussions. You could of course declare war on the scammer's corp, but if done with an alt character in a npc corp there is basically no penalty.

 

[yourkie1921]

They still only effect the naive. And you still COULD shoot them.

 

[Buddahcjcc]

Also if someone scams you I think you're allowed to shoot them. I couldn't imagine that you can't.

you cant.
imagine it.

 

[LodeArm]

I feel this review was rather flawed, not joining a player corp is like err i don't know 'missing the point' id like to say but that's too strong. But that's where the fun with eve is, Building up a corp make friends then blowing the crap out of other people. Simply the single best mmo Ive played and after playing it i imply cant seem o find another mmo thats even close. Even tried WOW and OMG after being chatted up by troll 2 hours after installing the game i quickly removed it and ran and hide under the stairs horrified that people could like such rubbish.


On the time thing it only counts for stealing some ones stuff and only for the person who had stuff stolen. If you are killed in empire (low sec space) you now get Kill rights. Meaning for 1 week or so you can kill them anywhere with no punishment. But scamming pirating etc is all part of the game eve is a harsh game deal with it. also all hostile acts in empire space receive a timer that lasts 15 mins that only stops you using a jump gate and allows gate guns to open fire on you (on sight) in 1.0 (safe space) all hostile acts are met with instant death its all related to the security rating (sec) of a system. 0.0 sec means anything goes and nowhere to run other than to the relative safety of your fellow corp/alliance players.

 

[PxDn Ninja]

Also if someone scams you I think you're allowed to shoot them. I couldn't imagine that you can't.

you cant.
imagine it.

You're wrong. You can shoot anyone you desire. You can open fire on a station in 1.0 space if you so desire.

Sometimes not a good idea, but you can do whatever you want.

 

[AuntyEthel]

dyou know what the best thing about EvE is?

The idiots slating it on this forum dont play it ^.^

That's movie, book and game reviewers in general, dude. Happens everywhere.

 

[Jonsse]

I was saddened by this review. Maybe because I really like eve. But everything said there is true, it was just approached wrong. All that was done, was getting the old checklist and marking the general aspects of a normal MMO and talking about that. Eve is so much more than just the 14day trial. Player run corporations in 0.0 and doing some pvp in lowsec are a major part of said game. They were grossly missing due to a very bias and unfinished review.

Then again Eve isn't an mmo you can just sit infront of for 14days and get as much out of it as you can. Might have fitted a t1 frigate and gone out hunting in lowsec, see what that feels like. In essence eve isn't a game to play 5h every day after you get home from work.

Of all the MMO's i've played up until now, none compare to eve and the little moments you get when you pvp or do fleet battles. Or even do a basic go there and kill something mission. Most memorable time was a small 4 vs. 4 fleet battle with my corp mates, my heart was racing and i was full of adrenaline. That was awsome and not one game ever has given me such a rush.

 

[Stella Q]

Why would I play EVE...training learning skills and such for months until I finally gain enough courage to venture into low-sec only to be annihilated in 2 seconds by a gatecamp. There is no balance in EVE. It's impossible. I played for almost 2 years...lived in high-sec, low-sec, and null-sec for significant periods of time and I had a fair fight only a handful of times. People will usually only fight if they have superior numbers, and they have good reason to as superior numbers nearly always wins. In this way the penalty for losing, as unique as it is, actually works against the game. If you penalize a player for losing, he's likely to only engage when he knows he can win. Balanced battles are very fun but they are so few and far between...you end up roaming around for hours just for the hope of a fair fight and usually you're disappointed. And even if you join a big fleet and have the pleasure of fighting another large fleet, I hope you like wondering if your modules are even turned on as you watch a slideshow of chaos.

Why not just play a game like Guild Wars where balanced, fun, strategic PvP is a click away. Where everyone is on an even footing and player skill and planning rather than sheer numbers determines the victor. Where a veteran player has no tangible advantage at all over a new player who created his account a week ago.

If you're looking for MMO-style PvP, why even bother with EVE?

 

[NeroScuro]

I played EVE for 3 years (2004 to 2007) and yes, it is crap. The actual gameplay is aneurysm-inducing boring (Yahtzee really does justice to how boring EVE combat is with the kicking shins analogy - it is EXACTLY like that), which it attempts to make up for by being open and freeform.

The problem is, being free to do any number of boring things doesn't make those boring things any less boring. Because they're boring.

Yes, you can claim deep space as your own, but then you have to fight boring battles to do so (which largely consist of two large blobs of spaceships focus firing at 1 opposing ship at a time until either one blob runs away or the server node crashes).

Yes, you can attack players and pirate from them, but that involves fighting even more boring battles (which are the same as above, only replace 'two large blobs' with 'one large blob fighting a single ship with no guns').

Yes, you can build spaceports (and by 'build spaceports' I mean 'enter numbers into an excel spreadsheet so you can get boring resources that are turned into large blobs that are used to fight other large blobs in boring, boring battles').

War in EVE has no tactics, it just consists of blobs, lag, whining on forums, and attrition. Combat is mindless, you just target someone, activate all your guns and wait. It takes no skill, at all - for all of WoW's supposed casual-friendly gameplay, at least you have to think in PvP. At least you have to be present in PvP. In EVE, after targeting and activating guns, you could go AFK and the outcome would still be the same.

Finally, to those saying that corporations vindicate EVE - since when is socialising a game feature? I don't need EVE to socialise with people, and socialising with people doesn't make EVE any less boring, stupid and pointless. It has all the depth of an excel spreadsheet and is as fun as invasive dental surgery sans the anaesthesia.

 

[Gnisis]

I played EVE for 3 years (2004 to 2007) and yes, it is crap.

And you kept playing for this long... WHY?

 

[maximara]

The people who are saying that EVE is more than a 14 trial don't get it. As Yahtzee pointed out in one of his first reviews the purpose of a demo (which is what a free trial basically is) is to make you want to play the full game. If the demo (ie free trial) shows the game has major flaws that make it frustrating and unfun to play then why in the name of sanity would any rational person want to pay in the hope that it may somehow magically get "better" later on? It just doesn't make sense.

 

[web]

I think alot of people who try eve have the wrong expectations, killing npcs aint supposed to be "fun", not like in, say wow for example. Its just a way to afford pvp really. Endgame in eve is basiclly killing dudes and taking their stuff, and PVE being boring makes winning pvp fights more worthwhile, you don't just respawn and run back to your corpse. You actually have something to lose and gain(you can loot other players).

War in EVE has no tactics, it just consists of blobs, lag, whining on forums, and attrition. Combat is mindless, you just target someone, activate all your guns and wait. It takes no skill, at all - for all of WoW's supposed casual-friendly gameplay, at least you have to think in PvP. At least you have to be present in PvP. In EVE, after targeting and activating guns, you could go AFK and the outcome would still be the same.

It's a sandbox mmo, it is whatever you make it to be, there are no instanced arenas or such, which aint a bad thing. More kinds of pvp doesn't = better. It's not just blobs either, most of my kills are solo or in small gangs, and your comment about it being no tactics is just laughable. Judging by your post I'd say you dont know much about eve or its game mechanics.

 

[Wicky_42]

There are instanced arenas web, lol - at least there were when i was playing.

Only played for a few months, long enough to fly a BS (basically, heh), before I realised just how much it was costing me to basically grind my way up the tech tree. And yes, I mean grind. What else do 0.0 corps do other than mine, fight each other and harvest npcs for loot. So you're not getting xp - you basically get xp automaically at a flat universal rate - but if you were to make a new char and just sit there learning skills, you wouldn't get very far, cos u need cash, and for that you must grind, as has been mentioned, at some very tedious tasks.

At the end of the day, you are only following in the footsteps of everyone before you, and as the game reminds you, there have been MANY people before you. Barring patching rebalances, the most optimum character builds have already been tried, tested and covered in considerable detail, so it's not like you're going to be able to discover anything new, or pioneer anything. And if you try, chances are that in the long run you're not going to progress as well as someone else starting at the same time. People recommend learning the 'Learning' skill up to a high level at the start, basically going aft for what, at least a week before doing anything, because a few months down the line they'll be doing better than their peers. A game like that I can quickly loose interest in - I like my skill to be a little more immediate and rewarding, not some grandiose life-planning scheme for eventual ultimate victory...

meh, I think I made my point and that I need sleep...

 

[Mandrake.Lord]

Ouch man very unjust review. although a lot of truth in it still. definitely shows that u only played for 14 days. eve is one of the best games ever created which will be proven when all other games die and are replaced and eve stands strong. i mean u could have made a slight attempt at saying something nice. in wow u die. u cry and walk to ur body. in eve u die and u wana comite suicide in RL because of what you've lost. soooo when you kill someone you damn well know their throwing objects around the room no other MMO provides that satisfaction in a pvp enviroment

 

[Samurai Goomba]

Ouch man very unjust review. although a lot of truth in it still. definitely shows that u only played for 14 days. eve is one of the best games ever created which will be proven when all other games die and are replaced and eve stands strong. i mean u could have made a slight attempt at saying something nice. in wow u die. u cry and walk to ur body. in eve u die and u wana comite suicide in RL because of what you've lost. soooo when you kill someone you damn well know their throwing objects around the room no other MMO provides that satisfaction in a pvp enviroment

Wow. I'm sure Yahtzee will see the error of his ways now. And really, if you "wana comite suicide in RL" from losing a game, your love of EVE isn't your biggest problem by a long shot.

 

[Mandrake.Lord]

lol no i lost a 700 mill kitted out battleship once. could stop laughing sooo much work all gone cause i was dumb and didnt check my autopilot settings b4 i went to the shops. gta love that

 

[NeroScuro]

It's a sandbox mmo, it is whatever you make it to be, there are no instanced arenas or such, which aint a bad thing.

I didn't ask for nor want arenas, I want the fleet combat to not suck.

More kinds of pvp doesn't = better.

It couldn't hurt if the only form of PvP sucks.

It's not just blobs either,

Yes it is.

most of my kills are solo or in small gangs,

You're lying. My old corp (Murder of Crows) basically fell apart basically because we found it impossible to get small-gang or solo PvP without getting blobbed. The game stopped being fun because thanks to retarded changes like WTZ all the 0.0 PvP was just blob vs blob or blob vs lone fucked dude.

and your comment about it being no tactics is just laughable.

Everything you just said is laughable. And wrong.

Judging by your post I'd say you dont know much about eve or its game mechanics.

I played for 3 years, my first fleet PvP experience was about 2 weeks into the game (I joined the DSMA in their war against FA, after getting bored of mining in high-sec) and I never stopped PvPing the entire time. 3 years of non-stop solo low-sec and 0.0 PvP, fleet ops, merc work, piracy, and alliance politics. So yes, I know a hell of a lot about EVE and it's crappy, depthless mechanics (big excel spreadsheet != depth, before you argue), moreso than you probably.

 

[ThEGr33k]

I see a lot of people defending this game from the review and I dont really know why.

Here are my views.

I played Eve on and off for about 4 years. I say on and off because I played it for a couple of months and got fed up with it then left it for a while and thought to myself "cant have been that bad surly". Had another go for a few weeks realised that I couldnt be bothered again spending 50 hours ratting and making money to buy/build a Battle ship just to go 3 jumps and get pawned by a few people gate camping in tiny little ships worth nothing.

Then there is the alliance wars. I was in IAC when we were giving BOB a good sorting out and my god BORING!? Like it has been said fly around for 4 hours waiting for the damn fleet to form then fly 50 jumps taking 5 hours and then get there and warp about for another 2 hours and maybe have a fight which looks like a slide show while having to click 50 times to lock onto a ship by which time as it decides to lock on the ship is already vapour and you are having to do it all over again.

Id like to know which bit is fun for these people who still like it? Going around popping people who are alone while you are out numbering and gunning them? Or mining? Or Ratting? Or doing missions that pay nothing and that are so hard you need a fleet of friends to complete?

IMO this review gets it perfectly.

Eve is soooo unballanced it takes the micky.