Zero Punctuation: Metal Gear Solid 4
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
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First off I know the story and he was building to something, second its not bad writing to draw points out. Some people actually PREFER that. I for one would rather have the detail as opposed to being rushed though everything. Its patience more than anything, and the writings not bad it just needed all of the games to come togeather. Its like a book, which is why I play many games is to get the story.
First of all, THIS IS ONLY A REVIEW
Shockingly enough, Yahtzee is NOT the infallible source of gaming information upon which the world turns.
If you don't agree with the review, disregard it.
If you don't like with Yahtzee's satirical method of reviewing, disregard it.
It's his style, the way he does his job, as Flamewall has pointed out
This is only what HE thought of the game, not the final word ever to be said shut the book and solder the cover shut law.
Secondly, its is a VIDEOGAME
Total realism isn't necessary, and if someone likes the storyline and you don't, please be kind enough to NOT start a flamewar over it.
Seriously....
Shockingly enough, Yahtzee is NOT the infallible source of gaming information upon which the world turns.
If you don't agree with the review, disregard it.
If you don't like with Yahtzee's satirical method of reviewing, disregard it.
It's his style, the way he does his job, as Flamewall has pointed out
This is only what HE thought of the game, not the final word ever to be said shut the book and solder the cover shut law.
Secondly, its is a VIDEOGAME
Total realism isn't necessary, and if someone likes the storyline and you don't, please be kind enough to NOT start a flamewar over it.
Seriously....
I'm not expecting him to be infallable, I'm just expecting him not to sell out. I was happy to find a reviewer who would not give in to the pressure of the mainstream, but now hes taken it to the other end of the spectrum and he just tries to make scathing reviews of popular games for the sake of doing it. He has sold out. Thats the problem I have
Usually subsequent exposure to anything reduces the overall affect of it over time. Getting used to Yahtzee's humour isn't his fault, and even so, he's still funny and entertaining to listen to.ShwStppnActr said:
I still smile every time I watching the end of his The Darkness review.
To all MGS fanatics;
There's no greater Halo fan than I on this forum. (Some may equal me, I guess.) I disagreed with at least half of Yahtzee's review of Halo 3. Indeed, I disagree with a lot in his reviews, to the point that I'd never use them to select a game myself.
That doesn't stop me from laughing 'till my sides hurt every Wednesday. Please quit with the righteous indignation schtik and enjoy the show.
-- Steve
There's no greater Halo fan than I on this forum. (Some may equal me, I guess.) I disagreed with at least half of Yahtzee's review of Halo 3. Indeed, I disagree with a lot in his reviews, to the point that I'd never use them to select a game myself.
That doesn't stop me from laughing 'till my sides hurt every Wednesday. Please quit with the righteous indignation schtik and enjoy the show.
-- Steve
And if YOU had actually played MGS4, you would know that this is incorrect.Aries_Split said:If you actually played metal gear solid 3, you would know that ocelot is the son of the sorrow, who has the ability to communicate with the dead. Ocelot unknowingly inherited that ability, and THAT is how liquid is controlling him. Again, if you play through the first games ,you'd know this.
Also I = MGS Geek
And what the hell qualifies you to give pro tips?
EDIT: First I have to say that I loved Yahtzee's review, but it's almost a non-review! The rants about the story were spot on, but the part about the gameplay is so wrong I feel like we weren't even playing the same game. Here's my take on it:
Anybody who is going into MGS4 cold may as well just skip all the cutscenes. My girlfriend played it, and although she had no idea of what was going on, she enjoyed the gameplay. It caters to many different kinds of people, and gave me the impression of Resident Evil 4 meets Thief when I first played it. Of course, you could take the FPS approach and always be in First-Person mode when shooting a gun, or use Auto-Aim if you suck.
You could also play it the way Metal Gear is meant to be played, and if so, I don't see how Yahtzee can just make it by with only the Mk 2 tranquilizer gun. To pull off a no alert game you really need to make use of the Mk 2, a cloaked Mk II (Otacon's robot), the Mosin-Nagant, Smoke grenades (of all colors), Stun grenades, and magazines (unless you are Yahtzee, because he's uber).
Not only can you play the game in your preferred style, you can also take several routes through the same area. For example, there's an area where you can either help the rebel soldiers escort an armored vehicle to bring down a barricade, or you can hop the rooftops to go around the barricaded area.
Also not mentioned in the review is that the Drebin Points system really appeals to people who like to collect items or unlock new stuff. Your points roll over into the next game and you can keep playing/farming for new equipment; just the the light-RPG elements incorporated by games like COD4 or R6V2 (as a side note, Kojima must really like COD4 as the best guns - the M4 and P90 - are acquired quite early in MGS4).
It's unfortunate that many peoples' first taste of MGS4 is lengthy cutscenes that just make no sense whatsoever (I played the last 3 MGS games, and a lot of it *still* didn't make sense). It stops them from enjoying the game, and seeing little details (see below) that the developers added in that make it so great.
(Try holding up a male soldier and doing a full body search; at the end of the search, Snake will grab the soldier's groin and make him pass out from the pain. Then hold up a female soldier, do the same thing, and see what happens...)
Anybody who is going into MGS4 cold may as well just skip all the cutscenes. My girlfriend played it, and although she had no idea of what was going on, she enjoyed the gameplay. It caters to many different kinds of people, and gave me the impression of Resident Evil 4 meets Thief when I first played it. Of course, you could take the FPS approach and always be in First-Person mode when shooting a gun, or use Auto-Aim if you suck.
You could also play it the way Metal Gear is meant to be played, and if so, I don't see how Yahtzee can just make it by with only the Mk 2 tranquilizer gun. To pull off a no alert game you really need to make use of the Mk 2, a cloaked Mk II (Otacon's robot), the Mosin-Nagant, Smoke grenades (of all colors), Stun grenades, and magazines (unless you are Yahtzee, because he's uber).
Not only can you play the game in your preferred style, you can also take several routes through the same area. For example, there's an area where you can either help the rebel soldiers escort an armored vehicle to bring down a barricade, or you can hop the rooftops to go around the barricaded area.
Also not mentioned in the review is that the Drebin Points system really appeals to people who like to collect items or unlock new stuff. Your points roll over into the next game and you can keep playing/farming for new equipment; just the the light-RPG elements incorporated by games like COD4 or R6V2 (as a side note, Kojima must really like COD4 as the best guns - the M4 and P90 - are acquired quite early in MGS4).
It's unfortunate that many peoples' first taste of MGS4 is lengthy cutscenes that just make no sense whatsoever (I played the last 3 MGS games, and a lot of it *still* didn't make sense). It stops them from enjoying the game, and seeing little details (see below) that the developers added in that make it so great.
(Try holding up a male soldier and doing a full body search; at the end of the search, Snake will grab the soldier's groin and make him pass out from the pain. Then hold up a female soldier, do the same thing, and see what happens...)
Holy shit that has to be the most brutal review of a truly popular franchised game that Croshaw has done yet...
Kudos to you for having the balls to do it, but seriously... maybe get some bodyguards or something...
Wonderful review again, I loved it
Kudos to you for having the balls to do it, but seriously... maybe get some bodyguards or something...
Wonderful review again, I loved it
Yep, yahtzee didn't give a glowing review to a game lots of people like, he must have sold out.TerraMGP said:
I've only played the first MGS, so feel free to ignore my opinion, but I feel Yahtzee was spot on about Kojima needing an editor. He has a tendency to drag things to death, like the fact that WAR IS BAD. He's by no means a bad writer, but he's the type who would be comfortable with writing novels that are thousands of pages long when they don't need to be. Some of the best writing is subtle and doesn't need to repeatedly beat you over the head with it's message.
I'm kind of hoping he does a video where he responds to all the hilarious NERD RAAAAGE emails he's going to get for this.
yeah but the HALO games were poorly designed, kinda diffrent
Anyways on a slightly more serious note the point is not that its not funny, its that hes just going for the humor for its own sake. Its not as funny when hes just trying to tick everyone off and beat the game to death. Its like how Dragonball was all fun and fanciful and easy to enjoy and DBZ was just a Ki based slightly homoerotic manhood waving contests in which anyone who could not suddenly become blond haired and blue eyed was left out in the cold, an irony in and of itself considering the Xenophobia many Japanese have.
We Know Yatzee, we have seen his work, and he was alot funnier when he was just himself. You can tell hes putting on a show now.
Anyways on a slightly more serious note the point is not that its not funny, its that hes just going for the humor for its own sake. Its not as funny when hes just trying to tick everyone off and beat the game to death. Its like how Dragonball was all fun and fanciful and easy to enjoy and DBZ was just a Ki based slightly homoerotic manhood waving contests in which anyone who could not suddenly become blond haired and blue eyed was left out in the cold, an irony in and of itself considering the Xenophobia many Japanese have.
We Know Yatzee, we have seen his work, and he was alot funnier when he was just himself. You can tell hes putting on a show now.
I still look at Yahtzee because, generally, I agree with the points that he gives out about games, and they still make me laugh. The first reason more than the second. For instance, The World Ends With You. I love that game, a lot. Really one of the better titles on the DS and as Yahtzee points out in his review, RPG fans will probably take to it rather well. And no matter that I liked the game, I find it very hard to refute much of his points. The main characters ARE ridiculously anorexic fashion obsessed pop culture zombies. It just works somehow.
The point being made about Metal Gear Solid 4 by Yahtzee is not even one that's particular strange. I've seen it said so many other places that I remain convinced Yahtzee isn't just ripping the game for the sake of being 'indy' or whatever. The shooting is clunky when they let you play, the storyline is out there, the cutscenes are too long, and you're about ten times more likely to appreciate it if you are a fan of Metal Gear. This does not mean the game is bad to me. This means that this is a Metal Gear game and therefore aimed at people that like Metal Gear. For the record, I don't agree with the game getting all of these perfect tens, no. A perfect ten implies to me that this game is messianic and will change the mind of most who play it, which it clearly does not. A nine to a nine and a half seems more appropriate, but then again I've never appreciated Metal Gear despite being a nerd for storyline and tabletop gaming.
The point being made about Metal Gear Solid 4 by Yahtzee is not even one that's particular strange. I've seen it said so many other places that I remain convinced Yahtzee isn't just ripping the game for the sake of being 'indy' or whatever. The shooting is clunky when they let you play, the storyline is out there, the cutscenes are too long, and you're about ten times more likely to appreciate it if you are a fan of Metal Gear. This does not mean the game is bad to me. This means that this is a Metal Gear game and therefore aimed at people that like Metal Gear. For the record, I don't agree with the game getting all of these perfect tens, no. A perfect ten implies to me that this game is messianic and will change the mind of most who play it, which it clearly does not. A nine to a nine and a half seems more appropriate, but then again I've never appreciated Metal Gear despite being a nerd for storyline and tabletop gaming.
I think I started to realize why I like the odd numbered MGS games, specifically MGS3: the crazy doesn't bleed over into the story too much. I say "too much" because the craziness does sneak in, but nowhere near as egregious as in the even numbered installments. Yes, Volgin shoots lightning for no apparent reason and the Cobras all fight like X-Men rejects, but if you cut that stuff out then the story reads like a decent James Bond fanfic (which it was). And sure MGS1 had some wacky stuff going on, but also remember when this was. Back then, honestly, how many console games had better story? But then MGS2 brought up the whole 'Liquid's Arm' thing. It wasn't an oddity in a quirky boss, it was a major plot element. As was the vampire and the person who deflects bullets via tremendous luck.
With the odd numbered MGS games I can take the weirdness because, to quote Steven Spielberg addressing Peter Benchley complaining that the ending of Jaws was unrealistic, "If I've held the audience for the past 2 hours I can hold them for another 5 minutes." The even numbered games, on the other hand, have asked us to swallow some pretty crazy shit from the get-go. I can stretch my suspension of disbelief pretty far, but you have to tug gently at it, not use it for a tractor pull.
With the odd numbered MGS games I can take the weirdness because, to quote Steven Spielberg addressing Peter Benchley complaining that the ending of Jaws was unrealistic, "If I've held the audience for the past 2 hours I can hold them for another 5 minutes." The even numbered games, on the other hand, have asked us to swallow some pretty crazy shit from the get-go. I can stretch my suspension of disbelief pretty far, but you have to tug gently at it, not use it for a tractor pull.
Wow, Yahtzee dangled the carrot and my oh my, have the fan boys ever taken the bait, grow up a little bit people, its not like he insulted your mother. Anyone who didn't see MGS4 getting a lashing either hasn't seen a ZP before, is just plain ignorant or such a rabid MGS fan boy they can't comprehend someone not thinking that its the greatest contribution to uman culter ever created.
no, because he has mocked games I like before and I was fine with it. Heck I found his Brawl review funny even though I think he was still into sellout range at this point. Its the fact that he changes "What kind of gamer he is" to make sure he is opposed to the review and bashes games for too much story when he wrote one of the most confusing and overly-elaborate adventure game series I have ever played, and I have played plenty. I am saying he is being a hypocrite, not for bashing games I like but for bashing games for the sake of doing so. He is giving in to the indy crowd. I knew someone was going to make that accusation of me too. If you want to write me off because I 'don't have a sense of humor' or whatever go right ahead but its diffrent now. He has gone from bashing the aspects of games because they are bad and nothing more to just wailing on them with a hammer because fans want to see it.
Yahtzee has sold out!!!
Why is it that a four-minute-long review is followed by nearly four minutes of advertisements?
As for the actual review this week, it's the first that I didn't find very funny. Even though I love Smash Bros, I laughed at the descriptions of "that guy" and Nintendo fanboys, because they described me so perfectly. In this one, I just felt personally attacked for "ingesting verbal diarrhea." Not cool.
And is it just me, or is the Escapist website ridiculously slow? It's been like this for the last few days now...
Why is it that a four-minute-long review is followed by nearly four minutes of advertisements?
As for the actual review this week, it's the first that I didn't find very funny. Even though I love Smash Bros, I laughed at the descriptions of "that guy" and Nintendo fanboys, because they described me so perfectly. In this one, I just felt personally attacked for "ingesting verbal diarrhea." Not cool.
And is it just me, or is the Escapist website ridiculously slow? It's been like this for the last few days now...