Zero Punctuation: Metroid Other M

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Tharticus

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Dec 10, 2008
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RowdyRodimus said:
My question is who is this Spoony I keep reading about here, why do their opinions matter so much and on top of that, why should I care what this Spoony person says? Is he some kind of industry insider? I ask this with no malice towards them, I just have no idea who they are.
Spoony is Noah Antiwiler, head of The Spoony Experiment. He plays video games and gives his thoughts on Vlogs. Almost as popular as other internet celebrities. In certain videos that I disagree on but most of his critiques are spot on.

You can watch his review on Other M part 2. [http://spoonyexperiment.com/2010/09/05/pre-pax-ramblings/]
 

Valagetti

Good Coffee, cheaper than prozac
Aug 20, 2010
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You know what Yahtzee? Reviewing games on the Wii makes your job far too easy. But I guess you care more about your traffic than, your pet pooping out gold.
Ooh whats happening tomorrow? Yes dance for us again you monkey man!
 

SimuLord

Whom Gods Annoy
Aug 20, 2008
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Attention Team Ninja: Don't EVER make a game with a female character---not a protagonist, ANY female characters---AGAIN. You are NOT helping to dispel the stereotype of video games as inherently misogynistic entertainment devices that make gender roles in male-dom "exploited teen girl" pornography look relatively enlightened by comparison.

Although on second thought, SF Pride Xtreme Beach Volleyball wouldn't be nearly the same sort of guilty pleasure although in terms of stereotyping an entire class of people it'd be six of one, half a dozen of the other.

Team Ninja needs to be stopped.
 

carpathic

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Well, Yahtzee is officially on fire since returning from Vacay!

Thanks so much for another fun one!
 

mr_rubino

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Neferius said:
Boy... I can't Wait until Team-Ninja gets around to releasing "Devil May Cry : Generic Teenage Emo Smoker" --maybe THEN some crazed (but loyal) Fan might actually consent to putting Tameem Antoniades's ass out of existence ...maybe some Bald chap wearing a business-suit with a bar-code tattooed on the back of his Neck O.ó.
That's Ninja Theory, fruit-loop.

armageddon74400 said:
All he did was spout the same thing that people have been spouting on the internet since the game's release. IMHO moviebob made a much better argument about Other M on screwattack than Yahtzee did in this video. Overall fairly meh, he sounded more like a troll than a critic.
And that's another of Bobbie's followers just "happening to" show up here plugging his video and complaining that, for some unknowable reason, everyone is complaining about the same things. Seriously, Baby Bobbie Hood mentioned this review on his forum, didn't he?
 

Nomanslander

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Feb 21, 2009
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Lordofthesuplex said:
Nomanslander said:
Moviebob would like it because it's not an FPS and it's an exclusive Wii title, asking him what he thinks is like asking this guy what he would think:

If MovieBob is a Nintendo Fanboy, then what the FUCK is Yahtzee? And if you say creditable then that just proves you're a hypocrite, an elitist, a ZP fanboy who dreams of sucking Yahtzee's cock and above all a hack just like that bitter drunken Aussie piece of dogshit. As I've said in the discussion regarding IGN's little flame-war magnet "Killing Samus", MovieBob is ten times the gaming expert Yahtzee ever will become! And this review proves it!

This was nothing but Yahtzee regurgitating not only his biased anti-Nintendo smear campaign like always but the same stupid ass complaints about non-existent control problems, sexism, and character derailment that X-Play started up in the first place. So yeah, Yahtzee's pretty much lowered himself to the same level as the lowest form of video game journalism and I hope he fucking proud of himself for doing it. It just only cost him any chance at ever being labeled a human again.
Umm, seems like you'd like to imagine me saying something along those lines, being a Yahtzee fanboy and all but if you had ever come across any of my earlier posts (just saying "if" you had) when concerning Yahtzee you'd see I've disagreed with him more times than not.

As for Moviebob, I think he's a pretty smart guy, and he's made some good points in the past. But there is no denying it, he is a Nintendo fanboy through and through. Watch any of his overthinker videos and you'd see it's just littered with extremist pro Nintendo anti everything else views and opinions to the point I'd be willing to call him the Michael Moore of Nintendo.

He even made a video where he showed just how deeply obsessed he is with that brand name, and as thoughtful as the video might be, it was also very....well......freaky...0o


Finally coming back to Yahtzee, well, what can I say...he's a fucking asshole...he plays the part well through and through and everyone has learned to accept him for it, and in some level love his stuff. But don't be so presumptuous to think I'd side with the guy just because I might agree with him now and then, and don't be using that type of language with me, if I had a little less backbone I'd feel obliged to report you....-_-
 

GLo Jones

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Feb 13, 2010
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Who else suspects the Friday episode will be animated/narrated by the Doraleous and Associates team?
 

SAMAS

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Josh_v2.0 said:
luckey said:
sorry yahtzee, bob's argument makes more sense to me in this case then your does, so it looks like i'm gonna get this one
http://screwattack.com/videos/TGO-Episode-40-Heavens-to-Metroid
I'm not going to dig through eleven pages to find out, but if somebody hasn't told you yet, have a look at strawmeneverywhere's comments on that page.
He's wrong on some points though.

1: He accuses the video of obsession with Sexualization, when the whole point of the video was that the charactization of Samus that people say has been "Raped" (actually said by Spoony) is an entirely fan-made projection. The only mentions of Sexuality are in respone to the accusations made by many critics and fanboys alike, even on this very thread (probably this very page).

2. That is Moviebob's opinion. He apparently got it, the others apparently didn't.

3. He's only halfway wrong here. Moviebob's point is that the whole authorization thing is cosmetic in that is serves the exact same purpose, game-wise, that just happening to find it when you need it does: That you don't get to use the powerup/item until shortly after you need it. He is right in that it was badly implemented, though.

4. Nevermind the fact that the "strawman" is using the exact same arguments that you can read, again, on this very thread.

5. He's just flat-out wrong here. Though Samus probably still isn't a fully fleshed-out character yet, she's still been developed a damn far sight better than the general assumption.
 

Jumplion

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BlueInkAlchemist said:
So the best way to enjoy a game that's trying not to be an FPS is to play an FPS? Huh.

When was Samus established as having a "bold, independent spirit"? I don't remember that being mentioned at all in any of the games other than the fact that you, the player, are controlling her and she's completely alone. She blindly followed our orders even if it meant smacking into a wall repeatedly when our phones rang or falling into an acid pit when we mis-judged a jump she probably could have handled were she in control of her own body.

This sounds so much like so many other arguments against Other M I'm wondering if Yahtzee either got bored with the ZP enterprise now that his novel's out or has just been too busy to form salient points that he's cribbed notes from other sources. Not that I myself would ever do such a thing [http://gameoverthinker.blogspot.com/2010/09/episode-40-heavens-to-metroid.html].

Funny? Yes. Accurate? No idea. I'm too poor to own a Wii. But I find myself kinda confused by all of the hatred. Maybe it's just me.
I've responded to that video, so I'll leave it here;

I haven't played the game, and don't really plan to, but from what I've heard Other M was just badly written and did not characterize Samus as a character properly. I'm sure they could have done much better with it. It's really just Team Ninja not handling the source material properly.

The thing about "projection" is that sometimes it helps the character develop more. Not everything absolutely has to be explained via text in a game, you can make characterization from the gameplay itself. AKA: subtlety

Lets look at Shadow of the Collosus. Wander brings a dead girl to a forbidden valley to bring her to life, this indicates that he holds deep feelings for her. In gameplay, he can barely hold the sword or swing it properly, yet he can aim a bow and arrow very well on horseback, indicating he's possibly a horse archer. When he falls down and experiences extreme pain, he doesn't get up immediately, showing that he's not a superhuman yet he's willing to slay these huge collossi just to bring a girl to life, showing he's stubborn, never letting go. None of this is "explained", but you can easily deduce this from the gameplay itslef.

If, in a sequel, Wander was portrayed as a spoiled brat who's heir to the throne and he hates his father, that would be a pretty jarring change in character (not saying Other M does a change as significant as that, just an example). While we may know nothing of of Wander's character, nothing in the previous game indicated a past like this, so unless they play with it really really well, it's not going to slide.

Now with Other M, think of the other Metroid games (I've played a few of them, but I'm gathering this from other impressions). The games are all about exploration, isolation, and lonliness. You explore vast environments in foreign planets, not a single human soul in sight, your only companion is your arm canon. Because of this, you can assume that Samus has rarely had human contact, more or less a loner. Samus is revered as a fearless bounty hunter (apparently), so you can assume that she's independent and "plays by her own rules", and in fact in Metroid: Fusion (so I'm told) Samus is given orders by a computer, but she even states that she dislikes taking orders, again a sign of independence.

With Other M, apparantly none of that get into play here. She's portrayed as weak amongst superior males (apparently, again, I haven't played it, just trying to see it from their perspective) and she deliberately takes orders. She's a fearless bounty hunter who plays by her own rules (we can assume that through gameplay) yet she is shown as being subservient to another's orders. While, as you said, we know next to nothing of Samus as a character through general story, you can deduce and inference her character through her actions. Her actions build her character, not her gender.

I don't know if any of that is true, as I said I'm going from what other people have played of the game (I've played some Metroids myself), but overall I can see where people got the idea that Samus was an isolated, lonely character and an independant woman considering that women in video games at the time was unheard of. Just because we "projected" our own ideas to the character does not mean that they're wrong to assume that. You don't need extensive text boxes of backstory to define a character, you tell who somebody is through their actions.

I've never heard of the argument that "because it's made in Japan, it's sexist!" or whatever you said, or that Samus must be stoic/emotionless terminator. Just that Team Ninja didn't do what it could to developer her properly. Samus may very well have had daddy issues or have strong maternal feelings out of something she willingly gave up to lab experiments (from what I've been told), but from what I can tell, Team Ninja didn't really do a good job at presenting it.

Tl:Dr (though I hope you do), just because we were never explicitly told about Samus as a character, there's still a lot you can inference from the Metroid games. And you could go all meta with it saying "Samus is obedient because she's following our orders on her!", though that really doesn't hold up since, well, how else are you going to play the game?

But I haven't played the game myself, so I can't judge, I'm just going off what other people are saying. But no matter what I say, one thing remains consistent from what I've read;

Metroid: Other M is just badly written. I mean, seriously, how the hell can you keep a straight face here? [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHllGUpXwk0] And that's just the the first cutscene!

Spoken in a dull, monotone voice, "I awoke to a familiar voice of a quarantine officer...a dream, I had been reliving the tragic moments of my past. Thanks to the hyperbeam, which was given somehow by The baby...The explosion destroyed planet Zebis, along with The baby..."

That's just inexcusable bad writing. No other Metroid game had to stoop down to explaining every minute detail, it was all presented subtly with pacing.
 

Nieroshai

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Yahtzee you nitpicking bastard... lol
I actually enjoyed this game. There were several things I had a problem with, but they were small potatoes compared to the fun I had playing. I agree with HALF of this review, but the problems arent as bad as hinted. Yes this game was advertised as having voice acting, because metroid titles have never had Samus reading her usually sparse dialogue out loud before. The Ridley freakout is understandable in the same vein that she KNEW he was dead, due to planet blowing up, and yet here he is trying to kill her on the other side of the galaxy in a GF installation. Seeing many of the enemies in the Metroid series, it's easy to believe Ridley can handle a lava bath. But a planetary explosion? In all, this wasn't exactly as good as the Prime games, but not being entirely as good as one of the Gamecube's best games ever doesn't mean it's a terrible game by any means. I'd give it a 7 with Prime being an 8.5 and Assassin's Creed 2 being a 10. But the Prime games have little replay value, whereas in Other M if you liked the game the first time, you're probably not going to go "it's cool but I'm Metroided out." So for that alone I bump it up to 7.75. Still not what "reviewers" might call a buy-worthy game, but I like it.
Note: anything in the range of 7 or above in a Game Informer-style rating system is in the category of "good." 8 is "very good," 9 is "amazing," and 10 is "perfect."
 

DreamingMerc

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SAMAS said:
I think the main problem with the "As I see it" argument is the fact that we haven't seen much. Moviebob points it out in his vid, and he has a point. The Metroid games have given us only the tiniest glimpses of Samus' character. We see her running around alone shooting hostile wildlife, and most people have assumed she must always be like that.

Now I know that Spoony said he disregarded the official manga (seriously, it was shown on Nintendo's website), probably because it disagreed with him. But even taking that out, we have two, maybe three looks into her actual character.

Bob mentioned Metroid II, where she decide not to kill the Metroid Hatchling. But he forgot to mention most of Metroid Fusion, the one time she actually talked to someone else. In this case, the ship AI she named after... guess who? Adam Malkovitch. Samus mentions that she gave it that name because it reminded her of him. She also mentions Adam (both the AI and the man) having an authoritative personality. She also mentions a somewhat secret code ("Any objections, Lady?") between the two of them, hinting at a relationship that was noticeably closer than simply Officer and Subordinate.

A possible third moment is that shot in Super Metroid's intro where she is shown shaking hands with the scientist she gives the Hatchling over to. It's not exactly something an emotionless soldier-type would do.
While all true, none of these examples have the presence of deep rooted fears and internal doubts about herself for Samus. They're small moments of clarity, or reaching out distantly into the past.

Tagging a name to her Ships' AI is a fair challenge to her previous relationship to Adam, but does that really explain why she would willingly place herself in immediate life threatening danger because he didn't say she could correct the situation, in specific relevance to the lava pits in Other M.
 

Allan Foe

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Dec 20, 2007
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Laaaaaadies and Gentlemen! The wide webs hath spoken!

Now Yahtzeemodo and Movie Blurb must duke it out in a deadly nerd match of vitriolic wordy diatribes!
DEADLY NEEEEERD MATCH!

Don't wuss out on us now, The Escapist! MAKE IT HAPPEN!
 

FallenMessiah88

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Jan 8, 2010
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So it is decided then. Metroid: Other M is officially one of the biggest gaming shitstorms of 2010.
 

GloatingSwine

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SAMAS said:
1: He accuses the video of obsession with Sexualization, when the whole point of the video was that the charactization of Samus that people say has been "Raped" (actually said by Spoony) is an entirely fan-made projection. The only mentions of Sexuality are in respone to the accusations made by many critics and fanboys alike, even on this very thread (probably this very page).
There are clear indications of the characterisation we are supposed to have drawn for Samus from the limited details previously provided though. The original Metroid manual states outright that she is considered to be the best of the bounty hunters, who are only brought in when existing Federation forces are simply not up to snuff. Even before she saved the galaxy seven times over she was literally considered the single hardest person in the universe.

It's clear from the references to the Alien franchise (especially the adoptive motherhood bit between Aliens and Super Metroid) that we're meant to draw our impression of Samus from Ripley, y'know, that woman who went alone into the alien queen's nest, stared her down, and then blew up all her shit, all to take her adoptive daughter back.

So if the impression of the character the fans have which has been so thoroughly subverted here is only a projection, it's a projection which was guided heavily by the author.