Zero Punctuation or Zero...Imagination?

[Gigantor]

That get your attention? I wasn't referring to Yahtzee's reviews there, as I'm as thoroughly enamoured with them as the next man. I was actually talking about 'Yahtzee-esque' reviews by other people. You know the ones: quick talking, quirky animation, tortured metaphors...

Where does the boundary between 'inspired by' and 'brazenly ripping off' with these thing lie? Let's say I want to make a video review of a game. Suppose I want to use images in the review, rather than simply filming my (admittedly handsome)face spouting away into camera for six minutes. Chances are I'll end up using stills or video from the game to illustrate my point, but will intersperse these with images provided by myself, so as to illustrate points which screenies may not. Is this already Yahtzee-esque? Yahtzee has a distinctive brand of animation and visual design, but really it boils down to simplistic characters (because he's one man, not Studio Ghibli, and he's gotta do one of these things a week) and basic, functional animation. I don't mean 'basic' or 'simplistic' in a derogatory sense in the slightest, because the characters and animations have more charm and personality than a lot of the stuff out there, but they are at least partially born out of necessity. Since other people who may want to produce game reviews may face a similar dearth of animation facilities, it seems possible they would unconsciously 'copy' Yahtzee's style because it's the logical thing to do.

Let's say next that I want some dialogue in my review- presumably my voice jabbering away. I've got a Cambridge accent, and those of you who've seen my reviews know that I like using rather roundabout imagery to make my points. I'll probably be talking quite fast, too, because that's how I talk normally, and also because no-one wants to sit there listening to a leisurely thirty-four minute dissertation on the combat system in Vampire: Bloodlines. I may swear a bit too, because I like swearing. Have we strayed into Yahtzee territory again? 'Making jokes with a British accent? Using words like 'arse' and 'wank'? How bloody dare he?'

I appreciate some people set out with aim of producing a 'Yahtzee-esque' review, hoping to syphon off a little bit of his success, but I think that kind of thing can be depressing and soul-destroying if you keep at it for long. Perhaps it's most obvious when people try and go for 'Yahtzee-esque' humour and it ends up feeling a bit forced and unconvincing, and more importantly, not very funny. But even as I type that I'm not sure what 'Yahtzee-esque humour' is. Does it have to feature sarcasm? Bluntness? Obscenities? Amusing similes and metaphors? I don't know about anyone else, but I was using all these things long before I ever knew Yahtzee was anything more than a weird version of dominoes payed by Johnny Foreigner, and I'll be damned if I'm going to let someone else have a patent on them just because they're more famous than me.

I know this could be just the kind of post that could start a flame war, so here, in summary, is what this post has NOT been about:
i) bad-mouthing Yahtzee, or his style, or his hat, or his mum, or any of that stuff.
ii)Sour grapes over his success.
iii) A defense of 'Yahtzee-esque' video reviews that people hope will be looked at as some sort of 'additional reading' to Zero Punctuation.

I just wondered where y'all thought 'amateur' video reviews on the internet can go from here, without being plastered with the accusations of plagiarism and thievery that get thrown around (a bit too readily, sometimes) on this forum.

Peace

 

[Dectilon]

I've stayed away from the mimics to spare myself from some facepalms. : )

 

[PhoenixFlame]

I talked about this in another thread here titled "To Yahtzee fans", but the ranting review isn't really original. What I think Yahtzee has done is advance that into the public eye just a little further. Every so often there's something that does this and it has the right mix of originality and appeal to make things more interesting.

Honestly? I think amateur video reviews will flourish, not diminish. The people who eventually will persist are the ones who will pursue their reviews in the style they feel most comfortable with despite accusations. The ones who are honestly trying to ride a trend or be imitators of a popular style will be the ones who won't last long.

 

[sammyfreak]

I think the important thing is not to compare similar (and probably inspired by him) reviews to Yahtzee’s, but to judge them by their own standards first. Is this really funny? Is it creative and witty? Is it Original? Naturally blatant rip-offs aren’t nearly as funny, doing the exactly same thing doesn’t really work.

There are also some subtle things in Zero Punctuation that the casual viewer doesn’t think about, but notices anyway. Things like pacing and tempo, sometimes as much as keeping pictures out for a second to long can ruin an entire joke.

I think its great that people create their own amateur videos, but most of them lack the talent and that something special needed to succeed on the harsh lands off the internet.

 

[Saskwach]

That get your attention? I wasn't referring to Yahtzee's reviews there, as I'm as thoroughly enamoured with them as the next man.

You tricked me.

 

[m_jim]

I just wondered where y'all thought 'amateur' video reviews on the internet can go from here
Peace

That's a good question. I thought about it for a minute or two and really couldn't come up with anything that was a groundbreaking as Zero Punctuation. But I suppose that if I could, the Escapist would be paying me big sacks of money...

 

[Melaisis]

I've stayed away from the mimics to spare myself from some facepalms. : )

Exactly. I think people dislike 'mimics' not because of the unoriginality, but because of the mediocrity which spawns when compared with Zero Punctuation itself.

I think we all can start to get offended when someone comes out with something better than Yahtzee, but in his style.

Although we'll be waiting a God damn long time.

 

[MaraN88]

Where does the boundary between 'inspired by' and 'brazenly ripping off' with these thing lie? Let's say I want to make a video review of a game. Suppose I want to use images in the review, rather than simply filming my (admittedly handsome)face spouting away into camera for six minutes. Chances are I'll end up using stills or video from the game to illustrate my point, but will intersperse these with images provided by myself, so as to illustrate points which screenies may not. Is this already Yahtzee-esque? Yahtzee has a distinctive brand of animation and visual design, but really it boils down to simplistic characters (because he's one man, not an Studio Ghibli, and he's gotta do one of these things a week) and basic, functional animation. I don't mean 'basic' or 'simplistic' in a derogatory sense in the slightest, because the characters and animations have more charm and personality than a lot of the stuff out there, but they are at least partially born out of necessity. Since other people who may want to produce game reviews may face a similar dearth of animation facilities, it seems possible they would unconsciously 'copy' Yahtzee's style because it's the logical thing to do.
Peace

That part was as much Yahtzee as it gets imao

 

[The Gil-Monster]

I think we all can start to get offended when someone comes out with something better than Yahtzee, but in his style.

But then it would never be better than Yahtzee because he's the one that started it. I suggest you get offended when people waaaaay less creative than Yahtzee get a buttload of money to make a technically superior product, without realizing that it's the WRITING that counts.

Like, for example, Spill.com. It's well drawn and nicely animated. But you can put a pink bow on manure and it'll still bring flies. The reviews are tedious, uninspirational, soulless, and hackneyed affairs.

I'm watching the review for One Missed Call because I figure what makes or breaks a critic in the entertainment biz is their treatment of a bad film. My wife is occupied and can't see the screen:

Spill.com Guy #1: Man, this movie... it just *BLEEEEEP!*
Spill.com Guy #2: Dude, you said it; it was so *BLEEEEEEEEEEP!*ing terrible. Man!
Wife (to me): What are you watching?
Me: Um... an animated movie review.
Wife: THAT'S an animation? It sounds like two guys sitting at a desk!!!
Me: Um... yes. That's what it is. An animation of two guys sitting at a desk. (leaves site forever).

What really annoys me about Spill.com is a quote lingering in the back of my mind from David Bowie, regarding fame and stardom: "It's not who does it first," (Zero Punctuation) "...it's who does it second." Let's hope that doesn't apply.

 

[brenflood]

Interestingly enough Yahtzee isn't the only reviewer who is getting ripped off. Most of you have at least heard of the Angry Video Game Nerd (AKA The Angry Nintendo Nerd). He does angry reviews of mainly original Nintendo games in his own style. It's very vulgar, but still fairly intelligent, and he has a catchy theme song.
So, I saw someone bashing the AVGN on one of his youtube posts saying that the Irate Gamer is much better. Well, I went and watched every Irate Gamer video just to see what was so great about him. What I found instead was a BLATANT rip off of the AVGN, but it was so much less funny mainly because the Irate gamer doesn't know how to formulate a grammatically correct sentence, nor does he know how to make a good string of cuss words.
His ONLY redeeming quality is that he will do some research on the game he reviews and spread his knowledge to the reviewers. Other than that he's just not funny at all, but busts his balls trying to be.

As for Yahtzee ripoffs, could someone provide a few links to them so I can see how horrible they are?

 

[Gigantor]

I like the AVGN, but only when he's reviewing games. He seemed to go through a tiresome period of long 'game videos' consisting mostly of him in film parodies, which were all a bit self-indulgent and boring. Settled down a bit now, though.

As for Yahtzee rip-offs, there's a couple of threads floating around on the first page, I'd have a gander at them. There's a particularly dreadful computer voice thingy which...it's just horrible.

 

[Divinegon]

What I find more interesting is the 'Yahtzee-esque'review in written format. Don't those people see that you can't take out 9/10 of what makes Yahtzee's review (For example, being Yahtzee) and still call it a Zero punctuation style of review?

Well, they can stay with their attempts of sounding unique through copying unique things. I still have my Zero Punctuation, AVGN, Spoonyexperiment, Video Game Vault and Videogamerecaps.com to make me laugh with nitpicking.

 

[Melty Blood]

It's an internet phenominon(How do you spell that again?), that hasn't been anywhere close to isolated. Take Yu-gi-oh: The Abridged series. Some guy, (Who admittedly likes the show) takes the episodes, cuts them down to 4-9 minuts or so, and does his own voiceover, and pokes fun at the show, and it is very funny. Of course, some random people started making stuff like "Naruto the abridged series", which blatantly ripped it off. And the quality isn't anywhere near the original.

People will always have good ideas, and other, less creative people will always rip them off. If people CAN do a better Zero punctuation, then why not let them?

 

[wilsonscrazybed]

If you're posting a review on the news site that ZP is famous for being published on, in a similar style of narration you will always have detractors that question your motives and ability. Putting that aside, what we need to really need to be discussing is much more boring as it is related to art.

Can an artist (writer) be influenced by his peers and not be infringing on some sort of intellectual property? Sure he can. Writing wasn't invented yesterday. Everything written is derivative of something that came before. Originality depends on the ability of the artist to translate what he sees or feels into something well... original. If someone figured out a great way of doing something, you don't need to invent a new way of doing it just because you think you're stealing.

As an example, if you were to be by chance, British and a game reviewer (enthusiast, or professional) you might be keeping up with the trends as they happen in the world of gaming reviews. If the medium of the day is video, then can anyone really say "you're just copying so and so?" No one game reviewer invented being British, or wrote the Magna Carta of video reviews. No one has even claimed the exclusive title of "talkstoofasttobeunderstood Mcghee." You might be an English game reviewer who talks really very fast, makes videos, and uses the words 'stupid prick' in the same frequency and tone that a priest says 'our lord.' You could be all those things and never even come close to being anything like our dear friend Yah to the tz double e.

Here (at The Escapist) you will see many people influenced by ZP. Some have artistic ability and can use that influence (the ZP influence) as a focus for their creativity and come up with something innovative. Other people aren't as articulate. (see MGG) Most of the "stop trying to be Yacht-z" comments are directed at the latter, and even though they don't help anyone, the certainly do say a lot about the people who come here. No matter how articulate you are there is certainly some feelings here that anyone trying to be funny is treading on holy ground, and ultimately will face the comparison to ZP. (and sent to the guillotine shortly thereafter by an angry mob of peasants.)

All most all of us came to this forum to be part of a community that enjoys roughly the same brand of humor. I think it's great how one little change to the forums has inspired so many people to write no matter their education or ability. You will see people who don't know how to channel that writing influence. You will see people who know all the rules, and have found their voice as a writer. Personally though, I am just here for the babes.


P.S.
You'll forgive the disjointedness of the post, I am a little distracted as I just sacrificed the population of Moscow to build the great wall. I am trying to convert Germany to Buddhism so they'll vote for me in the next global elections. Isn't the world complicated?

 

[Break]

It's an internet phenominon(How do you spell that again?), that hasn't been anywhere close to isolated. Take Yu-gi-oh: The Abridged series. Some guy, (Who admittedly likes the show) takes the episodes, cuts them down to 4-9 minuts or so, and does his own voiceover, and pokes fun at the show, and it is very funny. Of course, some random people started making stuff like "Naruto the abridged series", which blatantly ripped it off. And the quality isn't anywhere near the original.

People will always have good ideas, and other, less creative people will always rip them off. If people CAN do a better Zero punctuation, then why not let them?

Phenomenon.

And I agree, actually. I don't see the point of being so mindlessly loyal to someone that if another person comes along with something similar, but better, why get upset about it? Sure, kudos to the first guy for coming up with the idea, but hey, if something's good, it's good.

 

[Exposed Lie]

That get your attention?

you liar!! well i'm not gonna help you now *folds arms in a childish manner*

 

[hickwarrior]

I really don't watch knock-offs, but i might tend to read it, if it got something that gives me info with the usul criticism. I think i did that with my pokemon review, allthough i dunno if i did wrongs...

But still, i didn't keep ZP in mind and maybe did do a few unwillingly/unnoticingly things that might make it look like yahtzee's, but i am only trying to say what i liked about it and how i experienced it. I don't need to be funny, just informative of my opinion.

So it's like wilsonscrazybed said, that it's more of an art form or something, and that using ones style or another's style won't matter much. You will find your voice ones you've done enough articles or other writings.

 

[AnGeL.SLayer]

Its alright to be like him, quick witted and cocky but not to make your video exactly like his. with the yellow background and the exact same cookie cutter guys. Wheres the personal input in something like that? people who copy his videos are just tyring to get famous off of what he is doing. They arent being creative or artistic, they just want people to adore them. If your so willing to put your thoughts and ideas into something of that magnitude then why cant you take the time to come up with your own personal style? Dont rip off the creators work because you cant come up with something you think others will flock to. You never know until you try it. You really think Yahzee thought everyone would love and adore a simple yellow background with random cut-outs? because its so simple and paired with his dialog is why it works. if he was boring and wasnt a quick witted arse then everyone would dog him about it. people tend to over look the painfully simple and try for something bold and new. when painfully simple is what works more often than not.

As an artist its hard to sit here and read about people who think its okay for someone to copy and impersonate anothers work. sure yahzee does these in about a week and throws them together but if he admist it or not hes damned well proud of them. HIS work shouldnt be copied for any reason. it being his work is more than enough of a logical reason. all the other video makers should find their own path, not walk down someone elses. its the same thing as stealing someone elses picture that they have drawn. they put effort and creative input into it and it shouldnt be lightly tossed around like anyone owns it. its like, "hey i like the look of the mona lisa but perhaps i shall give her blue eyes and blonde hair..." it may or may not be better but its still a copy and should be treated as such. if one likes the look and feel of something you should try to recreate it with your own personal touches and feeling about it.

how would you feel if you worked hard on something and turned around to see someone else using your hard work to their advantage? It would piss you off to no end and if it dosent then your a liar.