Zero Punctuation: Papers, Please and Brothers: A Tale of Two Sons

[Warachia]

Greetings,

I was inspired to create this account when I saw the initial post on Tumblr.

Most of you seem like very bright, intelligent individuals. But underlying your words seems to be a cruel streak towards the LBGT, Trans, and Otherkin community.

Sexuality is a defining part of many people, and Crowshaw's blatant disregard for that by blatantly utilizing a harmful, hurtful, and graphic slur against us.

I'm formally urging the Escapist staff to take down the video and have Crowshaw reassess his use of this slur.

Thank you in advance.

The slur was used in reference to something that happens in the game he was reviewing, in that the game doesn't care whether or not a person is a transsexual, saying that they are not what they physically are is enough to be deprived of your passport, and arrested in the game, and the game doesn't depict this as a good thing.

 

[gjkbgt]

did i miss something i don't remember there being a tranny joke in this video?
I mean the no trannies sign in papers please maybe?

 

[Evonisia]

Honestly, I don't need to see any more of Crowshaw's work. And yes, I'm sure he does "make fun" of other groups. It's just that they are not well represented on the Internet. The Trans Community is very well engaged and it shouldn't be surprising that this came to our attention relatively quickly.

It's hurtful and it needs to be taken down.

You people joke about the gap between name calling and violence but many of us have been assaulted, sexually and otherwise, because of our sexual identities.

Admittedly, I'm only loosely in some knowledge of abuse towards the Transgender community (likely in part due to there not being a massive representation in the outskirts of Liverpool). I understand fully if somebody were to take major offence to a joke towards a transgender or it as a whole. I'm assuming that the joke causing all the outrage is the first one, not the sign saying "No Trannies" because one can blame that game for that, and said joke sounds like:
A) More of an insult to the politician that just happens to have insulted transgender people and/or the people that support them.
B) Wasn't intentionally offensive but got a sour reaction.
C) Was done for shock effect but wasn't intended to glorify insulting a transgender.
D) Yahtzee genuinely believes that a Transgender person who has not had surgery should still be recognised by the gender (likely because of Chromosones and the genitalia).

Yes, it's hurtful regardless of whether it's A, B, C, D or something else, but it can't seriously be something that warrants being removed when, as said before he has insulted other sexualities and other sensitive subjects. I guess what I'm trying to say is that just because 'X' has it harder than 'Y', it doesn't mean that a joke about X is any more offensive than one about Y. The solutions being an apology is made, nothing happens or this video is removed and so is every other video with a controversial joke.

Somebody already said it, but without a shadow of a doubt Yahtzee will address this in either his Extra Punctuation next Tuesday or his next Zero Punctuation next Wednesday.

Oh yes and before I forget, welcome to The Escapist, I'm not sure whether you're going to stick around but again, welcome.

 

[ErinBeee]

THIS. I absolutely agree with this post.

edit: Who do you think people are going to like more, the person who is relaxed, can take a joke, and maybe even joke back, or the person who is constantly offended and starting fights?

The way I see it it's like there's a group of friends and they're all out there getting drunk and taking a piss out of each other for a laugh or two. There's this tranny among them and he's joining in laughing at the jokes making fun of that guy for being Jewish, laughing at a joke taking a piss of that ginger guy, laughing at a joke taking a mick out of that asian dude and suddenly someone cracks a tranny joke and he gets all worked up about it and starts bitching and moaning.

Of course you're gonna cast him out of your little group (the social rejection), but not because he's a tranny but because he's an asshole that can't take a joke at his expense but doesn't have a problem laughing at jokes that are on the expense of others. Fuck that guy right? Who gives two shits about what he is and what he feels like, if we're all taking a piss out of each other and you're in the group, you're gonna have a piss taken out of you as well.

The problem is that in society, trans people are not part of the "group"

They are ridiculed and ostracised by a huge majority of people, long before any of the cheap internet or tv show jokes.

Forget it, there's no reasoning with people. Some people here really need to check their privilige and understand that making jokes between friends isn't the same as being ridiculed in almost every depiction. Being ridiculed as the most socially accepted group of people in your country is not the same as being ridiculed as the least socially accepted group of people in a country.

Think of it like school, there's that kind of nerdy kid that everyone makes fun of all the time because he's overweight and rubbish at sport. Life isn't going to improve for him just by laughing it off. Life is going to improve for him if he, and a bunch of his classmates who arn't in his position start to take a stand against it.

There's a difference between playful jokes and ridicule, and when it comes to denying trans people are the gender the identify as in a very popular web show, then it's not a playful joke. Maybe for you it seems like that, but that's because you're in a ridiculously priviliged position in comparison to trans people.

 

[Deep Thought]

I have to say, I am very refreshed and enthused to see a game that expands on non-combat elements in terms of game design. We definitely don't have enough of those games in the industry. It also makes sense that the "moral choices" are more gripping, because the tedium of work is more relatable to most of us than fighting in a war or other combat scenarios. I will definitely check this game out at some point, looks interesting.

 

[CynicalBastard]

If you are male and like sucking dicks; you are gay.
If you are a male sucking a pre-op transexual's dick; you are gay.
The fact that he specified "pre-op" indicates that they would appear far more masculine. If you are attracted to a pre-op transexual; you are gay.
It doesn't matter what state of mind the other person is in, no matter how much they want to be female; they aren't. They're still male. And you are sucking their dick.
The joke isn't insensitive. The joke isn't offensive. The joke is fact.
The joke is that you can't possibly be straight if you suck a pre-op transexual's dick.

 

[Warachia]

Honestly, I don't need to see any more of Crowshaw's work. And yes, I'm sure he does "make fun" of other groups. It's just that they are not well represented on the Internet. The Trans Community is very well engaged and it shouldn't be surprising that this came to our attention relatively quickly.

It's hurtful and it needs to be taken down.

You people joke about the gap between name calling and violence but many of us have been assaulted, sexually and otherwise, because of our sexual identities.

If this is true, then taking down the video IS THE WORST THING YOU COULD POSSIBLY DO.
People will not be happy if you take down the video, they'll blame the transsexual community, and you would be receiving far more threats and these kinds of jokes than if you were to leave it alone, what you should do is explain how you feel about the video, and ask that he refrains from doing this in the future, and why, you can even label him as a terrible person if you want, but trying to just remove the problem in this way will just create a thousand more problems.

Imagine this video is like glass, you think it's disgusting, so you punch it, it's destroyed, but now you have a bunch of shards in your hand.

 

[Warachia]

There's a difference between playful jokes and ridicule, and when it comes to denying trans people are the gender the identify as in a very popular web show, then it's not a playful joke. Maybe for you it seems like that, but that's because you're in a ridiculously priviliged position in comparison to trans people.

And to think, you would actually have a point if he denied transsexual people, but he didn't.

 

[Warachia]

did i miss something i don't remember there being a tranny joke in this video?
I mean the no trannies sign in papers please maybe?

People are upset that he used a transsexual in that joke with the man saying he's not gay even though he's giving another physical man a blowjob.

They see that as insulting to transsexuals (despite the joke not being about them or making fun of them) and now it's spiralled a out of control.

ErinBee if you are a troll you are a crafty one. Creating an account purely to get so worked up about this is starting to make me suspicious.

Also I think there may have been a small review in this video, hidden among the pro-trans suicide propaganda. It may actually have spoken about video games I'm not sure

It's not really that suspicious, the entire reason I made an account on the escapist instead of staying a guest was because somebody said something (I don't remember what) that was either completely wrong, or pissed me off enough that I wanted to reply, I also made an account on Cracked.com when they posted that Rifftrax article where Rifftrax made fun of the mother in jaws who just lost her son (they said that seeing an unattractive woman crying about it was hilarious).

 

[ErinBeee]

There's a difference between playful jokes and ridicule, and when it comes to denying trans people are the gender the identify as in a very popular web show, then it's not a playful joke. Maybe for you it seems like that, but that's because you're in a ridiculously priviliged position in comparison to trans people.

And to think, you would actually have a point if he denied transsexual people, but he didn't.

Actually, he made a joke about how a guy who sleeps with pre op trans girls is gay. Which is saying that pre op trans girls are men. Which is denying that a pre op trans girl is a girl.

Forget it, there's no reasoning with people. Some people here really need to check their privilige

There's no way anyone who would actually use this phrase unironically would even bother to come here, to this "unsafe space", and try to convince anyone. I say troll.

Would a picture of me convince you I'm not trolling?

 

[Miroluck]

Forget it, there's no reasoning with people. Some people here really need to check their privilige

There's no way anyone who would actually use this phrase unironically would even bother to come here, to this "unsafe space", and try to convince anyone. I say troll.

Would a picture of me convince you I'm not trolling?

Whatever my answer would be, I can tell that you're just bursting to post it. So go right ahead, why not.

 

[gjkbgt]

did i miss something i don't remember there being a tranny joke in this video?
I mean the no trannies sign in papers please maybe?

People are upset that he used a transsexual in that joke with the man saying he's not gay even though he's giving another physical man a blowjob.

They see that as insulting to transsexuals (despite the joke not being about them or making fun of them) and now it's spiralled a out of control.

that wasn't a joke though, "is like saying" it was a similarly a very good one yes.
Yes it might seem impossible to be single player and co-op but it is
Yes it might seem impossible to be straight and suck of pre-op transexuals but it is

this is a new low for this board

 

[wAriot]

Actually, he made a joke about how a guy who sleeps with pre op trans girls is gay. Which is saying that pre op trans girls are men.

Actually, you are wrong.
What he was saying is that the guy sucking dick is gay. He didn't mention anything about the other person, aside from her being pre-op.

 

[Warachia]

There's a difference between playful jokes and ridicule, and when it comes to denying trans people are the gender the identify as in a very popular web show, then it's not a playful joke. Maybe for you it seems like that, but that's because you're in a ridiculously priviliged position in comparison to trans people.

And to think, you would actually have a point if he denied transsexual people, but he didn't.

Actually, he made a joke about how a guy who sleeps with pre op trans girls is gay. Which is saying that pre op trans girls are men. Which is denying that a pre op trans girl is a girl.

You replied to the wrong post, you want the post where I already corrected you on this, so I'll correct you again, the joke was that a man who gives another man a blowjob is gay, regardless of whether the man getting the blowjob is transsexual or not.

 

[ErinBeee]

Forget it, there's no reasoning with people. Some people here really need to check their privilige

There's no way anyone who would actually use this phrase unironically would even bother to come here, to this "unsafe space", and try to convince anyone. I say troll.

Would a picture of me convince you I'm not trolling?

Whatever my answer would be, I can tell that you're just bursting to post it. So go right ahead, why not.

Not really, I'd rather not open myself up to the 'tits or gtfo' stuff that's always on here. I just want you to understand that I'm not trolling, and that I _do_ know what I'm talking about.

 

[Mooghens]

There's a difference between playful jokes and ridicule, and when it comes to denying trans people are the gender the identify as in a very popular web show, then it's not a playful joke. Maybe for you it seems like that, but that's because you're in a ridiculously priviliged position in comparison to trans people.

And to think, you would actually have a point if he denied transsexual people, but he didn't.

Actually, he made a joke about how a guy who sleeps with pre op trans girls is gay. Which is saying that pre op trans girls are men. Which is denying that a pre op trans girl is a girl.



Would a picture of me convince you I'm not trolling?

To be fair, the definition of a male is that he A: Produces sperm, and B: Has a Y Chromosome. And until you can eliminate these two criterias from an individual, HE is by all accounts, a physiological male, no matter how much make-up.
And no don't send pics, this isn't craigslist goddammit.

 

[Warachia]

did i miss something i don't remember there being a tranny joke in this video?
I mean the no trannies sign in papers please maybe?

People are upset that he used a transsexual in that joke with the man saying he's not gay even though he's giving another physical man a blowjob.

They see that as insulting to transsexuals (despite the joke not being about them or making fun of them) and now it's spiralled a out of control.

I thought it was the no trannies sign on the papers please part, although he put that in because you have to check if people match the right gender in the game he's reviewing.

It's starting to remind me of the dickwolves fiasco. The Penny Arcade guys made a comic that mentions rape, it was not a rape joke as it dis not make fun of rapists or rape victim and rape was not part of the punchline. And yet still people complained about it. Now these complaints about Yahtzee aren't that weak but they're not that far above it.

To be fair, Penny Arcade somewhat brought that upon themselves by replying in one of the worst possible ways, namely addressing the subject seriously, then mocking it, they might have quieted things down a little if they didn't end it with: "if you are a rapist, then go forth and rape no more!"

did i miss something i don't remember there being a tranny joke in this video?
I mean the no trannies sign in papers please maybe?

People are upset that he used a transsexual in that joke with the man saying he's not gay even though he's giving another physical man a blowjob.

They see that as insulting to transsexuals (despite the joke not being about them or making fun of them) and now it's spiralled a out of control.

that wasn't a joke though, "is like saying" it was a similarly a very good one yes.
Yes it might seem impossible to be single player and co-op but it is
Yes it might seem impossible to be straight and suck of pre-op transexuals but it is

this is a new low for this board

I can't understand the stance of your post, so I'll address what I can, it was a joke, it had all of the qualities of a joke, it wasn't said just randomly, and I don't understand your stance on the comment section (I'm guessing you don't like that people are defending him).

 

[Miroluck]

Forget it, there's no reasoning with people. Some people here really need to check their privilige

There's no way anyone who would actually use this phrase unironically would even bother to come here, to this "unsafe space", and try to convince anyone. I say troll.

Would a picture of me convince you I'm not trolling?

Whatever my answer would be, I can tell that you're just bursting to post it. So go right ahead, why not.

Not really, I'd rather not open myself up to the 'tits or gtfo' stuff that's always on here.

There is no "Tits or gtfo stuff" on escapist forums, certainly not "always". I'm not sure there was even a precedent of this here.