Zero Punctuation: Papers, Please and Brothers: A Tale of Two Sons

[Warachia]

3 separate jokes bashing transsexuals in a single episode isn't humorous at all.

You'd be right if that was true, in the first joke the joke wasn't about the transsexual, and it certainly wasn't bashing transsexuals, the other two were in reference to something that the game forces you to do, you have to question somebody about their sexuality if they don't look like what they say they are, and if their physical sex doesn't match what they say they are, then they are either turned away, or sent to prison, if you let them through, you get fined for it.

 

[Waddles]

Forget it, there's no reasoning with people. Some people here really need to check their privilige

There's no way anyone who would actually use this phrase unironically would even bother to come here, to this "unsafe space", and try to convince anyone. I say troll.

Would a picture of me convince you I'm not trolling?

Whatever my answer would be, I can tell that you're just bursting to post it. So go right ahead, why not.

Not really, I'd rather not open myself up to the 'tits or gtfo' stuff that's always on here. I just want you to understand that I'm not trolling, and that I _do_ know what I'm talking about.

You JUST joined this website, purely to comment on THIS topic.

How can you POSSIBLY say that the Escapist forums are inundated with people screaming tits or gtfo

 

[Frank Van Der Mast]

Dear Mr. Croshaw,

While I greatly enjoy your videos I feel obliged to point out a big annoyance I have with your review of 'Papers, Please'.

While one might argue that it is an acceptable review (ZP-Style) catering to the intended demographic I cannot help but be annoyed by its blatant lack of substance.

Papers, Please is not a game 'arcade style' intended to 'entertain' people.

To give you a quite appalling comparison I'd like to now give you a review of the Mona Lisa as an art critic comparable to your work on Papers, Please:

- There is a lot of brown, it looks rather sombre and boring.
- Her skin is rather yellow and I don't quite like yellow.
- The girl depicted in this painting isn't particularly beautiful, yet I'd probably still hit it provided I've had enough to drink.

You see my issue here?
No mentioning of the raison d'etre, no mentioning of even noticing the ghostly optical illusion of her smile.
In other words: Completely ignoring the reason, message and 'expression' of the artist that created the piece.

While I am quite sure this message will go unread, ignored or disregarded I cannot help but frown upon the obvious and blatant hypocrisy you portray by being too fearful to review a piece for what it is while on the other hand acting like a 'fighter for game(r) justice' in your rhyme-down videos with Jim Sterling.

I do not blame you personally, it is just an annoyance I've had with most 'celebrity' individuals. It seems the current trend towards 'delicate issues' is one of 'looking the other way'. Be it under the guise of not wanting to start a flame war or to preserve order is irrelevant.

As soon as we stop talking and arguing about issues important to us we forfeit our right to change them.

If a little controversy or 'heated discussion' is too much for your stomach, feel free to look down, keep quiet and be complacent and obedient. I however will voice my opinion for anyone to hear and not be afraid of prosecution, flame wars, discussions or threats.

Humanity and human 'society' and 'civilisation' has been ruled by fear for long enough. Fear of hell, fear of god, fear of disease, fear of communism, fear of fascism, fear of prosecution, fear of the church, fear of the maffia, fear of the NSA.

We've been ruled and guided by many different things from the stone age to the 21st century. The only constant has been how we've been ruled: through fear.

The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.


And on that note I would like to end my little rant,


Have a pleasant day.

 

[8bitlove2a03]

"Gee," I wondered whilst watching, "was anyone else as annoyed by the tasteless transsexual jokes in this episode as I was?"

*click*

"Yes. Yes they were."

 

[Duncan Belfast]

I'm surprised no one has posted this yet.

If a biological male identifies as a female, I don't think she can just declare herself female and call that the end of it. They still have a male body, and they can identify as whatever they feel is right, but they still inhabit a male body. I think until they receive reassignment surgery and become biologically female, they are a male who identifies as female. If they could just declare themselves women and have that be the end of it, there would't even be a need for reassignment surgery.

Which brings me to another point. Purely straight males are at zero on the Kinsey Scale. They are the ones who are strictly straight. While there are straight males who could be attracted to pre-op MtF transsexuals, there is also a majority that couldn't. So if you are willing to ignore or even embrace the fact that your girlfriend has a penis (good on ya, I say), you might not necessarily be a four, five, or six on the Kinsey Scale, but you're certainly not a zero, either. (For the record, I'm probably between one and two.)

As for the "No trannies" joke, the humour comes from the idea that signs saying "No Fatties" or "No Trannies" are incredibly juvenile and unprofessional. It's a jab at the corrupt country's laws, by giving their immigration booth signs you would expect to see outside of a frat house, not something put up by government employees at a border crossing of a country.

 

[Erttheking]

snip

What in the FUCK? Why are talking about sucking dick? WHY? All you had to say was that the video hurt your precious feelings because your girlfriend is trans. You did NOT need to bring up completely pointless information. But noooooo, you had to add in all that extra shit about sucking the cock of someone you've never met in person. I feel embarrassed for you. Do you happen to be autistic? Are you this guy? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvDdhgdxeQI

All right, I'm going to stop you right there. No, just no. That post was one of the most unjustified attacks I've read in a long time. The guy who made that post was talking about transexuals and if being attracted to a pre-op one made one a homosexual, and he disagreed because he saw his transexual girlfriend as being a woman, despite being pre-op. I have no idea where the viciousness in your post came form, but it was completely uncalled for. He was on topic, and said nothing wrong. Please apologize.

 

[Sir Thomas Sean Connery]

This shit is getting out of hand. I had to rewatch the video just to see what everyone was whining about and it was hardly even a joke for fucks sake. IT'S A GAMEPLAY ELEMENT. A gameplay element that makes complete and irrefutable sense when you consider the game's setting. Tumblr needs to go away. Forever.

snip

Please apologize.

And this just made me giggle uncontrollably. Thanks for that.

3 separate jokes bashing transsexuals in a single episode isn't humorous at all.

Humor is subjective.

 

[TheBoulder]

Please apologize.

Nah I don't feel like it.

 

[Erttheking]

Please apologize.

Nah I don't feel like it.

I hope you do realize that attack was vicious and uncalled for.

 

[Jenvas1306]

effing hey....
is this really such a long discussion now? I really cant believe that...
So Im trans too, and that fact did break the fun of this review a few times.
Why? because his jokes reminded me about the intolerance. one of his jokes is directly referring to how that checkpoint discriminates against gaining weight and against transsexuals (tranny being a pretty degratory term for this group, just like words he has used or just hinted for black people).
the other joke was against hypocrytes and would lead to a totally different discussion about straight guys liking chicks with penisses, which is something that exists in the large spectrum of human sexuality, but without them standing by their likes, thus rendering them hypocrites.
none of those jokes are directed against transsexuals and/or transgender people. they are simply a bit uncomfortable. (btw how do you show a that a woman is trans in his design style? I dont like the beardshade much, but have no idea how to do that better).
asking yahtzee to take down his video is ridiculous. I am not going to reduce other peoples rights just because of a single incident that caused me a bit of discomfort (nothing against what LGBT people have to deal with on a daily basis in some cases). I will however apreciate if he does not make such jokes to such an extent again.
so wtf? dont get your panties into a knot, no matter what they contain.

 

[rob_simple]

Snip

Wow, that really escalated. So we went from 'I didn't like your review' to 'fear is crushing every facet of humanity' in a few short paragraphs, that is really impressive.

I find it strange that, for someone who claims to have watched ZP for a while, you are surprised he didn't do a more somber review of Papers, Please. That has never been what Zero Punctuation is about, and he has done games with dark issues before, so why did you think he would make an exception?

Why not be glad that he has given the game some publicity when, otherwise, most people would never have even heard about it?

If this was one of his articles then maybe you'd have had a point, since they're often a lot more serious, but ZP is a comedy show, it's not a place to make everyone think about the human condition and then get depressed for awhile (despite what this colossal flamewar would suggest).

 

[IndigoHawk]

Papers Please looks good. I'm surprised Yahtzee reviewed it, but thanks for putting it on my radar.

Some people are blasting this episode of Zero Punctuation. All that shows is that some people don't want to communicate or relate to others. People won't change their minds for an argument that is self righteous, doesn't understand what a joke is, and doesn't understand that Zero Punctuation is often offensive.

Yahtzee made jokes about hypocrites and used sarcasm to comment not on transsexuals or the game itself but to critique the serious subject matter of the game. Sarcasm can makes people uncomfortable with the truth it shows (in this case, intolerance in that type of regime) if they stop and think about it.

Thanks Jenvas1306 for getting it. Your perspective seems reasonable, and I can see where you're coming from.

 

[Faegbeard]

Snip

snibbidy snab

I think he was joking mate.

 

[Evonisia]

Papers Please looks good. I'm surprised Yahtzee reviewed it, but thanks for putting it on my radar.

Some people are blasting this episode of Zero Punctuation. All that shows is that some people don't want to communicate or relate to others. People won't change their minds for an argument that is self righteous, doesn't understand what a joke is, and doesn't understand that Zero Punctuation is often offensive.

Yahtzee made jokes about hypocrites and used sarcasm to comment not on transsexuals or the game itself but to critique the serious subject matter of the game. Sarcasm can makes people uncomfortable with the truth it shows (in this case, intolerance in that type of regime) if they stop and think about it.

Thanks Jenvas1306 for getting it. Your perspective seems reasonable, and I can see where you're coming from.

The joke about the transexual/politician relationship was said during the Two Brothers part of the episode. I'm pretty sure gender politics don't have a relationship with that game.

I think people are getting offended at that, not the 'No Trannies' sign or the examining gender thing.

 

[sky14kemea]

Is not possible. Thread is lost. We can not get on topic back. Topic is lost, as taken to Ministerium house lost.

We of might well as speak of potato.

I have images saved for times like this.

This would be one of those threads I'd lock before it gets any worse, but since it's site content, I cannot.

Just know that I'll be keeping a close on eye on this thread from now on. If anyone has any problems and the report queue hasn't solved it, please PM me directly.

 

[Nurb]

papers please is soooo feindishly addictive.

Jokes against transsexuals were completely unnecessary and completely offensive.

You didn't mention the "As useful as a wi-fi connection in Auschwitz's prison showers" joke.

Grow a sense of humor. There's no genuine hate behind any of the jokes he does.

3 separate jokes bashing transsexuals in a single episode isn't humorous at all.

I like dudes too and he does a lot... A LOOOOT of gay jokes, but I know it's not hateful so I think it's funny. I thought the transexual jokes were hilarious too! Same with the other tasteless humor and it's not "BASHING", just as there's no gay bashing or Jew bashing.

Again, grow some humor, transfolk aren't special nor is anyone else for how they see themselves sexually or genderally.

 

[razer17]

In terms of the dick sucking joke, here's my oppinion: People are offended by the fact that the joke infers that if you suck the dick of a pre-op, you are gay, and as such that a pre-op transexual is still a man, even if she considers herself a woman. That's the offensive part, right? That Yahtzee is saying that she is still a man, at least until she is post op.

Well, homosexuality, as I see it, is to do with sex, and not gender. And a pre-op transexual is still a male, even though they maybe a woman in terms of gender. So I don't think Yatzhee is necessarily
saying that if you have a penis you should be treated like a man (Maybe he thinks that, maybe he doesn't), but that sucking a dick is a gay thing to do. And I tend to agree with that sentiment. But hey, what do I know?

The other thing, of course, is that regardless of whether he is implying what you think he's implying or not, people are making too big a deal out of a simple joke. Yahtzee being offensive has been his thing since day one, and if you're likely to be offended by it, don't watch. If you don't like nudity, you wouldn't visit a porn site, would you?

I mean, if you suck a dick, you are obviously aroused by that meant part of the body.

The ability to bob one's head up and down is not proof of arousal.

One person flat out admitted that he doesn't mind jokes about the Holocaust because he isn't Jewish but he does mind the trans jokes. He's apparently totally unaware or uncaring that this just might make him look like a hypocrite.

I do not see anything hypocritical in the statement "I am offended by things that hurt my feelings, not by things that hurt another person's feelings." It's selfish, sure (not necessarily in a bad way, either), but it is not inherently hypocritical.

Of course it's hypocritical. Why should trans people be immune to jokes, but not other groups of people. To flat out say one type of joke is bad and another is fine IS hypocritical. You can't be morally outraged about a joke that relates to you and then not be outraged when it happens to someone else.

Basically what that person is saying is that he doesn't care about the Jews, he only cares about him/herself. That's selfish, in a bad way.

 

[rob_simple]

Snip

snibbidy snab

I think he was joking mate.

You may be right, I honestly can't tell anymore, this thread is turning into a minefield of fake and genuine outrage.

It doesn't help that I've just come from a Youtube comments war where people were earnestly trying to claim that men are now second-class citizens in America...I don't know what to believe anymore!

 

[Miroluck]

As a middle-class, white, cis man, allow me to tell you that what hurts your social acceptance in my eyes isn't the jokes about trannies, but rather your whining regarding them. Instead of just laughing a joke, replying with a joke of your own regarding us cis scum, you whine and act like spoiled brats.

So you'll accept them the second they stop acting like themselves and start acting the way you tell them to?

I am not familiar with that definition of "acceptance." In fact, kind of sounds antonymous to me.

Surely you've meant "they", "themselves" and "they will"? I'm pretty sure that member you're talking to made it clear that he isn't trans himself.

 

[Archer666]

As a dude that likes dudes, I enjoy transexual and holocaust jokes. Liked this episode, ended up buying Papers, Please since I played the beta. Glory to Arstotzka ;-;