Zero Punctuation: System Shock 2

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teebeeohh

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octafish said:
teebeeohh said:
Almack said:
Some times I feel like it was a good thing that I only started gaming in the mid 2000s and missed games like these otherwise I might not have stuck with this hobby.
just out of curiosity, how exactly would system shock 2 turn you off gaming?
Probably because just about everything after JA2, SS2, and PS:T has been a bit of a disappointment? That is how I feel, but I maintain some hope.
hm
i really don't get that logic, everything since my childhood has been a disappointment, as a kid afternoons after school would last forever and everything i did that was cool was SUPER DUPER AMAZING OVER THE TOP AWESOMESAUCE. Sure, my life was also enriched by a lot of things but those usually come with a nasty helping of new problems.

and what is PS:T? i really have no idea and you can't google that because all it gives you is pacific standard time. thanks ogoogle.
 

Gennadios

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I beat it!

Granted, the ending was complete shit, the devs apparently lost their original end-game ship code in a fire, so part of me thinks that alot of people love the game because the mid-game was totally awesome but they never saw how far it fell towards the end.

As far as the start goes, yeah, the skill system is really rigid and uncomfortable. It does a great job of showing vulnerability, but it was a massive turn-off. It took me 3 times to get to the creamy center of this one.

teebeeohh said:
and what is PS:T?
Planescape: Torment - it was kind of a big deal back in the day, I think a recent kickstarter based on it smashed some sort of record^_^;
 

anonymity88

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TheMadDoctorsCat said:
- I've finished this game about fifteen times, total, each time with a different set of skills. And if that sounds obsessive to you, all I gotta say is: I'm the guy who finished "Super Street Fighter 2" on hardest difficulty with sixteen "perfects" in a row on a console with no way of saving your game.
I have to ask, 1) How did you do it?
and 2) Why do you hate yourself?
 

MichaelPalin

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What the...? You use Steam and complain about pre-owned shenanigans in consoles? Steam did block second hand use since it started.
 

Rastrelly

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asap said:
The main thing I remember is how fucking dreadful the music was from that shit game. Maybe it was trying to make me fear the robots more due to their ability to torture me with sound. Don't understand why people liked that game so much as its boring and poorly balanced with only a few interesting points with the game world. Thank god for modern shooter controls.
Wow. Didn't you try using "Controls" section of "Options" menu or it's too complex?
 

TheMadDoctorsCat

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anonymity88 said:
TheMadDoctorsCat said:
- I've finished this game about fifteen times, total, each time with a different set of skills. And if that sounds obsessive to you, all I gotta say is: I'm the guy who finished "Super Street Fighter 2" on hardest difficulty with sixteen "perfects" in a row on a console with no way of saving your game.
I have to ask, 1) How did you do it?
and 2) Why do you hate yourself?
How did I do it... boy, this is going to get technical. Stay with me here.

Firstly, you need to use Vega and lots of full-range hard claw thrusts. I'm sure there are ways to do it with other characters, but Vega is by far the simplest. If you start the thrust with your opponent out of range but walking forward, they won't block it. Vega can catch any opponent in the game that way, even Bison. Vega also has the fastest jump in the game, which is great for fireball-spamming characters (use lots of very deep jump-kicks followed by ground sweeps - don't kick when too high in the air as this will let any opponent recover and grab you for a throw or hold move, as most of them will do on the hardest difficulty) and a neat backflip special move that makes him temporarily invulnerable and that he can't be thrown from when he lands.

What else... Don't use his wall jump or rolling slash moves; both are way, way too vulnerable to uppercuts / sweeps respectively. Finally, if you hit someone when they're jumping (easy with Vega - he has an excellent high kick and an uppercut, both of which can hit almost any opponent before they even start to try and hit him from the air) and you time it well, you can throw out a maximum-range thrust to hit them as they land. If you're starting to withdraw your claw just as they become vulnerable, they won't block this attack and you'll get an unlikely combo (it won't count as such in the scoring, but who cares?)

The hardest is Deejay (both his fireballs and his spinning kick special move counter the long-range-thrust tactic, and he's one of the hardest opponents to both jump-kick and anticipate), closely followed by Guile (his sonic boom is almost instantaneous to both throw and recover from - he can let off a sonic boom and instantly jump forward and kick you while the fireball is still in the air, which nobody else in the game can do. With human opponents you also have two seconds of charge time that limits what they can do BEFORE they throw it, although it doesn't help if they know what they're doing and immediately charge in after a slow sonic boom to try and sweep or slam you. Not so with computerised Guile on the hardest difficulty though... he can, and will, spam sonic booms with impunity, and rarely walks forward; so the long-range thrust move is difficult to pull off.)

Ryu takes good timing to beat, but he's not that hard - you need to jump his fireball then do a kick/sweep combo. Ken is a lot simpler. He is constantly looking to be aggressive and walk forward, spamming attacks; if you play the long-range thrust defensive game, this is exactly what you want your opponents to be doing, not sitting back and spamming fireballs like Ryu.

Dhalsim's also tricky, although his extreme slow speed means you can jump over his punches/kicks, nail him with a quick kick, and then get the heck out of dodge before he can grab you to throw you (he will ALWAYS do that on hardest difficulty if you mistime the kick.) Cammy, Zangief, Fei-Long, Honda, Hawk and Blanka are really easy to beat using the long-range claw thrust, although with Hawk you have to be very careful not to block any of his frequently-spammed special moves, and don't let him get close. Chun Li's biggest threat, oddly, is her kicking you in the arm as you try and stab her while she's in the air. She only needs to get one medium stomp on the edge of your claw, and you've lost. In normal gameplay this would barely hurt you, but if you're going for perfects every round, it's annoying as hell.

As for the bosses... Balrog's charging uppercut leaves you ample time to duck and throw him during his recovery, but his charging straight punch (which hits ducked characters and causes damage if you block it) is an absolute nightmare. The only way to beat it is to jump right over it and throw him as he recovers, but again, you need perfect timing to pull this off. Sagat is, surprisingly, fairly easy once you learn how to goad him in. Just jump straight up over low fireballs or duck his high ones (watch out for the slow low ones though), then hit him when he closes in for hand-to-hand combat. He's slow enough that this isn't difficult, and he doesn't use fireballs when walking forward. Computer Vega isn't smart enough to avoid your tactics - just time your backflip right when he wall-jumps, or you'll end up being hit or blocking a special attack - and Bison is fairly easy provided you can jump straight up over his "psycho crusher". Again, it's a matter of learning the pattern and being ready when the attack comes.

Now that's HOW I did it... it took about four months of constant practice and repetitive failure. And if you're wondering if there really is an extra ending for pulling off sixteen double perfects in a row (there is one for never losing a match, and another for never losing a round - I've seen both), the answer is: no. Not at all. I guess the game creators never thought somebody would be obsessive enough to actually try something like that.

Anyway to answer your second question: How much do I hate myself? Answer: A little more than I did before I pulled this off. The weird thing is that when I finally did it, it didn't feel good. I didn't feel any particular satisfaction from it, just a sense of emptiness. It was like "This is what I've devoted all these months of my life to? That's it?" And then I just shook it off and went on to other things, I guess.

And the moral of the story is, System Shock 2 is still freaking awesome.
 

McShizzle

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TheMadDoctorsCat said:
- Dr Polito is probably the best character in videogames, ever. She has personality, purpose, a truly great character arc, and a heartbreaking end. (Bear in mind you never even MEET Dr Polito... all of this is done in audio logs.) Seriously, I could write pages and pages on why this character is so freakin' great and why she has such an emotional impact.
Sgt. Bronson has always been my favorite. Her final log still gets me.
 

DarkhoIlow

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Wow, wasn't expecting this title.

So going back to reviewing classics eh Yahtzee? I'm fine with that, System Shock 2 is a game that deserves it and so many more.
 

TheMadDoctorsCat

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McShizzle said:
TheMadDoctorsCat said:
- Dr Polito is probably the best character in videogames, ever. She has personality, purpose, a truly great character arc, and a heartbreaking end. (Bear in mind you never even MEET Dr Polito... all of this is done in audio logs.) Seriously, I could write pages and pages on why this character is so freakin' great and why she has such an emotional impact.
Sgt. Bronson has always been my favorite. Her final log still gets me.
Oh, I love Bronson. And absolutely agree about her final audio log.

But as awesome as Bronson is, she's not unique in the way that Polito is unique. I can't think of any other single-player game where you spend it "shadowing" another personality whose journey matches your own. You see what she saw, hear in audio logs what she felt... and for this reason, her end - and the reasons for it - pack that much more of an emotional "wallop". I think Polito is the ultimate "identifiable" character.
 

The_State

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Jun 25, 2008
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I just finished this game for the first time last night. Talk about uncanny coincidence. I'd played it a few times before but, as Yahtzee said, it's a tough game to beat. My final build was a tech specialist with plenty of points in modify, maintain, hack, and repair. I focused on energy weapons first and standard weapons second. No psi at all, as it doesn't take much to make the game easy. Even with it's shoddy third act and not-so-simple UI, it's still in the top five of my favorite games.
 

Steve the Pocket

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For me, the game started being hilarious almost from the start. After the tutorials, you have to choose whether to join the Navy, the Space Marines, or the Psychonauts, and after that what assignments to spend your three years of training on. This is how you create your initial characer build. Except instead of doing it with point-and-click menus like a sensible game, it has you walk through three very small and completely desolate buildings into one of three corridors, at which point it fades out, plays a completely superfluous prerendered cutscene of a generic spacecraft taking off, and fades in on the next one. What the hell was the point of all that? It's like they were trying to do a Vault 101 thing ages before they had any of the necessary technology to actually pull off the immersion.
 

Annihilist

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Again, I have to ask, has anyone else got ZP with the audio out of sync with the video lately? The new ones appear to be particularly notorious, because I rewatched some old ones and most are perfect. Anyone else got this?
 

FallenMessiah88

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I remember this game. I remember the horrific cyber zombie monsters and all the horrific sounds they made.
 

Envy Omicron

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I only started playing System Shock 2 a few days ago as the first part of what I hope will be a full playthrough of what I, and many others, like to call the "Shock Trilogy".

So far, I think I'm in LOVE! Yes, the game can cause some confusion when you're only just learning your way around the mechanics. Yes, the graphics are very outdated by today's standards (but if you're like me, graphics don't matter all that much to you anyways). Yes, this can be a very difficult game at times.

However, none of that is very bothersome to me, because this game has nearly everything that I appreciate in any game: lots of depth, a strong atmosphere, a well-presented narrative, I find it impossible for me to NOT love this game.
 

Bonecrusher

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OuendanCyrus said:
A better game than Infinite imo, I always see SS2 as Deus Ex but with horror replacing the stealth focus.
I agree. SS2 and Deus Ex have similar approach combining RPG with FPS.

I don't like Bioshock Infiinite's approach. Bioshock series, with each new game, becomes closer and closer to action FPS side, and neglecting storytelling RPG side more and more.
 
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HAHAHA, he LITEREALLY used an FTL starship! XD Well played, yatzee!

Also, this game is going on my steam wishlist. Hopefully my best buddy will get it for me as a belated birthday gift after I got him Spec ops by surprise.
 

Darth_Payn

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AH, I love Yahtzee's retro reviews of the games of yore. This was back when it was STANDARD for games to have imagination and depth and still be mature, when true maturity in games was just starting out. Not even the Bioshocks have the kind of complexity that SS2 had.

And where the tits is Yahtzee's retro of Thief? I looked thru Zero Punctuation's whole archive front to back and STILL couldn't find it!
 

DrunkOnEstus

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May 11, 2012
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Man, right as I get to working on SS2 for my "shock" retrospective, Yahtzee comes out of nowhere with something infinitely better and more entertaining. I guess that's why he gets to do it for a living. I definitely have more praise for it and feel it aged better than he thinks (keybinds notwithstanding), but I'm not as funny as him. Or at all.
 

EIeK

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In Demon's Souls: 'Pause to look at the inventory? What dreck is this? My character is vulnerable. So terrible!'
In System Shock: 'Pause to look at the inventory? This is amazing. My character is vulnerable. So atmospheric.'