Zero Punctuation: The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 3D

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starwarsgeek

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Nov 30, 2009
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Abandon4093 said:
But what I've never got is. Are Link, Zelda and Ganon the same characters constantly reincarnated when their story needs to be played out again? Or is the similarities between the 3 Ocarina characters and the 3, lets say Windwaker characters just coincidental?
I know why people say the games haven't changed since Ocarina. Ganon is the villain in both Wind Waker and Twilight Princess, so the story is going to be similar. I just respectfully disagree. : )

As for the characters...
Ganon is the same guy. Everytime. One of the benefits of the Triforce of Power is immortality. On the rare occasion that Link finds a loophole and kills him (such as Ganon not possessing the Triforce for the final battle in Wind Waker), his minions have multiple spells that can bring him back (Oracles, Zelda II).

Link and Zelda are not always the same, although sometimes the same ones will be featured in multiple games (For example, Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask both have the Hero of Time, and The Wind Waker and Phantom Hourglass both have the Hero of Wind). Each Zelda is part of the same bloodline. The Links are probably part of their own (The Stalfos that teaches you new moves in Twilight Princess is heavily implied to be a former Link, probably the Hero of Time. He calls the Twilight Princess Link "his son", implying a bloodline connection). Although Ganon appears to think Link reincarnated in The Wind Waker ("Surely you are the Hero of Time reborn"), facts like more than one Zelda living at the same time (Zelda II) and The Hero of Time not dying in the Adult Timeline (Ocarina of Time) seem to disprove this. I think they should elaborate on this a little, personally.
 

Xersues

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Dec 11, 2009
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Fuck Zelda games and Goldeneye. Perfect Dark was the only game on the N64 that kept my attention long enough to play through a single game with that god awful controller.

With Twisted Metal, Xenogears, Metal Gear Solid, Legend of Dragoon, Gran Turismo 1,2, Lunar, etc I never ever saw a reason to buy an N64. Ever.

Yes, I've played OoT and Goldeneye. They were awful. You're remembering wrong ;) Sadly enough all the good Nintendo games that weren't first party are on other consoles now. That includes the Goldeneye reboot.

Oh Nintendo. You used to be cool. Now that they're losing money, it seems people are not buying into their new gimmicks, and I am sure the WiiU is going to get hit hard by it.
 

floppylobster

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Squilookle said:
Dammit- I think it's my fault that goldeneye got brought up in this one. Shoulda kept my mouth shut at the mana bar I guess...

Oh well, seeing as I'm here, may as well explain WHY goldeneye holds up.
Non-Linear Levels- pretty rare back then, just as rare now. The levels were often built like actual believable layouts, like Thief was, so exploration was rewarding and there were different ways to do everything.

Rambo style sometimes WILL get you massacred- Forgetting for a moment that it was the first to do stealth in a console FPS, it also did it damn well. Even today if you get lazy you will be overwhelmed. You can still barge through guns blazing in some levels, but there's nothing quite like breaking out of a cell, unarmed, finding some throwing knives, and then taking down absolutely everyone in an underground bunker through patience, timing and skill blah blah blah... these days everything's just a mindless corridor.

The best difficulty setup ever done- There was actually a point and incentive to play on all difficulties. Higher difficulties had more objectives, and sometimes new areas. Each difficulty level unlocked a bonus level of its own when they were all finished too. Modern games STILL mostly don't understand that with a higher challenge there needs to be bigger rewards.

offline Splitscreen with four players- We don't care what limitations you have with a console's hardware, if goldeneye could do it with the 64's measly hardware, you can do it today. I'd go further and say any shooter that doesn't have multiplayer bots like Perfect Dark brought is a step backwards, too. What the hell, Killzone 3? what were you thinking, COD: WAW?

massive arsenal of guns that had real weight to them- I'm not saying all modern games do this but a lot of games make the guns a bit lacking in punch. Even tiny pistols in Goldeneye slide back and bark loudly as the shell pops out in front of a decent muzzle flash as you aimed exactly where you wanted to shoot with your own targeting, not some PC style crosshair trying to work on a controller. And there were more than thirty weapons! and you could carry them all at the same time! Why did you do this to us, Halo? And what the hell, DNF?

No handholding- You got your brief, heard you're objectives, and were thrown in to work it out for yourself. One thing that drove me insane in nearly every Bond game since is the fact that when Bond is out doing a mission, the entire staff of MI6 is listening and offering so called 'advice' all the time, like saying "That vent, 007!!!" as I am facing a very obvious large vent that is filling my screen. A lot of modern games guilty of this one especially.


cheats- Do I really have to explain this one? It's simple- complete a certain mission, on a certain difficulty, in a certain time, and you get a fun reward. Playing with cheats will not unlock the next level/bonus/whatever. It's simple, it's foolproof. It's fun. Thank god Timesplitters continued much of this legacy.

Bottom line is -and I can't believe I have to tell you this Yahtzee- good games aren't just about graphics. Sure the 64 is old and had simpler games in its time, but that just allowed devs to get more done right (in principle, anyway. Nobody forgets Superman 64). There are many 'best game of X console' discussions out there, but it's the N64 that gets the most debate about which of it's games where the best game of all time.

Tell you what though, you were right about the fish offering in OOT. Took me weeks to figure that stupid logic out. And I had never played a zelda game before last year either.
I agree with everything you have said here about GoldenEye 100%.

But I would also say Ocarina of Time is massively overrated by people who were first introduced to RPGs through it (and some to 3D). The same goes for Final Fantasy VII. But I totally get the love for them (they're not bad games). I love Phantasy Star (the original), my first RPG, but I can still recognise that it doesn't hold up today. People seem to take RPGs a little more personally than other games. I guess it's the role playing element that really ties them to the game.

But GoldenEye, GoldenEye is still good. The level design IS amazing. The sense of freedom is rarely matched in modern games. Some levels in Call of Duty 2 and Halo have it but GoldenEye had it on every single level. Each level had a clear goal but every time you started the level you really had no idea on how you were going to achieve it. Just like James Bond. In fact I'd watched nearly all of the James Bond films before playing GoldenEye and I didn't really like them. But after playing GoldenEye I suddenly got what made James Bond, James Bond. So I went back and watched them all again and enjoyed them so much more. And there's not many movie tie-in games you could say made you appreciate and enjoy the films more.
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
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Driv3 said:
It does seem odd that both Nintendo and Microsoft seem intent on pushing the same games from 10+ years ago (Halo re-release) rather than coming up with innovative ideas but then again new ideas are expensive, reboots are not. Shame as I really liked this game when I was younger but its doubtful it would be enjoyable if I played it again especially if nothing has changed.
Sony's been milking HD re-releases, too. I think if they could get some of their more popular PS1 games released, they totally would. I mean, they've already seen a re-release of FFVII do well without any enhancements on PSN. Imagine if they could get an exclusive deal to put out FFVII HDREMIX.

They would probably step over their own grandmas.

But this is nothing new. Nintendo's franchises are largely the same idea rehashed time and again. The major difference between a remake and a new version is the superficial touches they feed us to keep us from realising it's the same game vs the nostalgia factor of the "best game ever."

Though seriously, I still replay some of my favourite titles from any generation where I have a working system and cart/disc. It's not like, a bad thing in its entirety. Just...They've made what? Ten OoT remakes? That's a bit extreme.
 

hoov

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Jan 21, 2009
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Goldeneye has held up very well if you don't mind a controller that gives you arthritis.
 

omegawyrm

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Nov 23, 2009
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Sometimes I wonder what it was like back in the days before all discourse about videogames was dominated by that fact that it's "cool" to be a jaded and cynical jerk, but then I realize that it's probably just wishful thinking that such a time ever existed.
 

FallenMessiah88

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Jan 8, 2010
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Well, its hard for me to have an opinion of Legend of Zelda, since the only Zelda game I have ever played was, in fact, Ocarina Of Time on my cousin's N64. Even though it was cool and all, especially the ReDead's. God damnit those were scary! And this was back when I thought the zombies in Resident Evil were the scariest undead I had ever seen.

But the best N64 games for me were always Goldeneye and Star Wars: Shadows Of The Empire, because James Bond is cool and I really really REALLY like Star Wars! :-3

Also, I thought that Robin Williams ad was really cool.
 

PunkRex

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Feb 19, 2010
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Was it me or was Zelda Williams reeeeeeeeally hot?
Also, I tried playing this when I was 16 and got lost way to often... that was a big field.
 

mik1

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Dec 7, 2009
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well everyone is expecting nerd rage but surprisingly there has been very little. I think I'll take it upon myself to throw a little bit of "rage" out there.

I bought this game and my sister started playing it. She had never beaten the game before let alone play it. She beat the entire thing without using gamefax, or getting stuck for a long time or using one of those stones.

Which makes me question why the hell you even bothered to use gamefax. Since the game is willing to tell you how to do everything.
The reason you beat the water temple so easy is because they made it much easier to find where to lower and raise the water. My sister also was expecting a very difficult temple and beat in less time than you.

Also the things you mentioned about the other zelda games is stuff everyone not living in dumassistan figured out 5 years ago.
 

forsinain42

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Oct 14, 2009
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I expected that the gameplay would have been remade. The lock on system is terrible and the pacing is all off. I expected a directors cut more then anything and it really really wasn't.
 

Mydnyght

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excusablegold said:
heh. Rapelay is one of the greatest games of all time now?
Im think going to hell for just recognising the cover.
You and me both, dood.

By the way, calling Link "Fuck me" was funny as hell. Ranks up there with calling Nier "Twattycake".
 

Lone Wolf765

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Jun 23, 2009
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i still play OoT and MM, probably more than i play WW and TP. It isn't fair to say that NO 64 games have aged well, i still play Starfox 64, Paper Mario, Perfect Dark, and Mario Party.
 

Calcium

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Dec 30, 2010
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The Goldeneye remark and picture made my day, which would have been made later by the 'Attack dog trained to administer Chinese burns' idea.

I think I must have started Orcarina of Time on the N64 a dozen times but kept getting bored after becoming 'Adult Link' - Only completed it once. Despite that I'd still put it in my top 10.
 

iamultraman

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Nov 27, 2010
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Actually the Refusal of the Call is not necessary, though we do observe, in some myths, that the hero does avoid the adventure albeit with disastrous consequences. It still wasn't a bad reference to Campbell's theory considering the story of Link is as archetypal as it gets to the extent that, if you took Legend of Zelda 101 in college, you will find certain details in this series borrowed by mainstream games today.

Anyway, make another Majora's Mask.
 

KingCrInuYasha

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Jan 17, 2011
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bificommander said:
The story outside the dungeon had the same problems. The kids are a prime example here. You start out with a pretty clear mission of finding them. Then... you do. And... then one gets kidnapped and one learns to be brave... and your GF loses her memory and you get pointed in the right direction for fixing it when you're in an arbitrary point in the story... then she gets her memory back, but it doesn't change anything... Really, the kids story line is in limbo after the first 25% of the game but petters on till the 75% mark, at which point we just forget about them. Just like the 4 heroes who sound interesting, but only really serve as map markers for your next dungeon, for no good reason. The only characters I really liked were Midna and the barlady.
The barlady's name was Telma, in case you're curious.

YMMV, but in terms of interesting characters, there's also:

Zant (at least, before he went off his meds)
The kids, especially Malo
Agitha
Yeto and Yeta
Ooccoo
Barnes the bomb maker
Fyer the cannon repairman
The fishing lady

It's probably not a good sign when the two least interesting characters in a Zelda story are not only supposed to be key characters, but said characters also happen to be Zelda and Ganondorf. At least with OoT and WW, they had some role to play and played it well. Here, they felt kind of tacked on.
 

Xersues

DRM-free or give me death!
Dec 11, 2009
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Anoni Mus said:
lol. They were awful because you say so and we are wrong.

Oh wise master, iluminate my path and free me from the Nintendo awesomness darkness.
Its ok you seem smart enough to figure it out on your own.

Lordofthesuplex said:
And people call ME the fanboy?! Dude, people like you are why I can't stand Sony anymore because their company is run by your type.
Nice edit to make sure you get the attack in there nice and tight. People like me only had one console growing up of that generation, and we had to make a choice what that was. It was either N64 or a PlayStation. Since the PS1 came out before the N64, the choice was pretty clear at the time. Then the Playstation 2 came out after that. And well, yeah another Sony product. It was easily a generation past the N64.

Oh Dreamcast though. How I loved that stupid thing. You want to talk about Fanboy, my god that thing had me rabid.

Then I learned a valuable lesson after that and went back to PC gaming.

That my friend is people like me. Which I'm the only one I know. As far as I can tell I don't run Sony either.

also, why am I typing in ads for a Captcha. Norwegian cruise line? I feel dirty. Next I'll have to type in "Ribbed for her pleasure" to get a post in.
 

EvilChameleon

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Oct 18, 2010
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I own an N64 and the original game and I never understood the big obsession with it. I barely got through the first bloody forest before I was ready to turn it off.
 

rapidoud

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Feb 1, 2008
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I never finished OOT, got up to water temple, lost saves, might go do it now on the old N64 and FFX as well (but not FFVII because that shitheap was spoilt by the interwebz long ago).

Or twilight princess, might go finish that.

And if we're having fanboy wars then... go somewhere else. This is as bad as the console vs PC where the PC crowd is full of a bunch of childish twats who think they're better than people who play games on consoles (that's like saying I'm better than you because I drive a $80,000 car and not a $40,000 one nya nya nyah!)