Zero Punctuation: Tomb Raider

[Blood Brain Barrier]

I also agree that some degree of linearity is necessary. I also did not feel that the game was overly linear. The areas aren't huge by any stretch, but you can go back to old locations to find treasure and what not from any base camp..

I can't believe anyone who got themselves involved in the story actually did that. For me, the momentum was one of the story's only strengths, and stopping to raid tombs, read historical information and level up went totally against that. It's like someone penned the story and then someone completely different and on the other side of the world came up with the gameplay: someone schooled in all the modern trends in FPS and action games.

You've got in the story this adrenaline pumping Bruce Willis style rush from A to B and then because it's a modern game you have to have the xp gain for skill points, the optional quests and open-world backtracking, the bonus information and easter eggs. All which serve only to detract from the main story, in the same way a series of intermissions in an action movie would.

 

[RobfromtheGulag]

Ah, "I Spit on your Grave," what a fine movie. So fine it deserved a modern remake. I can't tell which generation's pulp sexual assaults I find more gratuitous.

I thank you Yahtzee for bringing the comparison to my attention, that is exactly what this game reminds me of. Character building.... but not really.

This sounds like another of those confounded open world games. The last one of those I enjoyed was Just Cause 2, and it'll probably stay that way for some time.

 

[Baresark]

I also agree that some degree of linearity is necessary. I also did not feel that the game was overly linear. The areas aren't huge by any stretch, but you can go back to old locations to find treasure and what not from any base camp..

I can't believe anyone who got themselves involved in the story actually did that. For me, the momentum was one of the story's only strengths, and stopping to raid tombs, read historical information and level up went totally against that. It's like someone penned the story and then someone completely different and on the other side of the world came up with the gameplay: someone schooled in all the modern trends in FPS and action games.

You've got in the story this adrenaline pumping Bruce Willis style rush from A to B and then because it's a modern game you have to have the xp gain for skill points, the optional quests and open-world backtracking, the bonus information and easter eggs. All which serve only to detract from the main story, in the same way a series of intermissions in an action movie would.

I should clarify: it was an option, but I didn't do it, haha. It was nice if you wanted to go back after the fact but I basically abandon sections that I was passed. In the middle of a section I would look around for treasure and "tombs", but once i was past that area I didn't go back. There was no reason to. Basically, as soon as you beat it, you might as well uninstall it because there is no reason to go back.

 

[Starker]

I really liked Spec Ops but I feel it would've made its point a little better if you could actually turn around and leave like you were supposed to at any point.

Do the other modern milsims give you the option? You are doing horrific things, but the games say it's all for the best, because it's the way to proceed. Now you have the option to witness up close and personal one of these situations where things didn't turn out well. It's showing you there's a disconnect between the things that you do in games and what they are portrayed as.

Spoiler

It's no wonder Captain Wanker goes mad. Any sane person would. But he really doesn't have a choice... there's an uncaring unfeeling force driving him forward no matter what. He also want's to believe everything he does has some kind of purpose and that it turns out well. But there is no mission for him there. It's a lot like real life, really.

The game asks these questions not only on the personal level, but also on a wider cultural level. What kind of culture is it that thinks gunning people down or sneaking up to a bloke and slitting his throat is jolly good fun? Soldiers are lauded as heroes, but those that come back from "action" more often than not aren't inclined to talk about what they did or saw.

 

[likalaruku]

That's what I like about Escapist forums. People here can handle criticism of games they like maturely. Upload this to youtube & the bulk of comments will be death threats & two trolls drowing out everyone's comments by insulting eachother's mothers back & forth.

I just saw "I Spit On Your Grave" recently, so it's neat to get that reference.

Cinema Snob fan?

 

[Epic Fail 1977]

[the spec ops PC] decides to use the white phosphorous!

Eh? No he doesn't. It's not optional. Unless you count "stop playing the game" as an option. But then TR has that option too.

 

[Voulan]

I thought the whole point was that she's been forced to develop in an extreme circumstance, to the point that it's almost horrifying the lengths she'll go to succeed and save everyone. "It's amazing how easy it is."

Anyway, I disagree with Yahtzee on this one, which I'll note I have done in the past. Just because he says one thing does not make him an unquestionable god with infinite knowledge on everything.

Also, thanks for the Far Cry 3 spoilers.

 

[Machine Man 1992]

Captain Walker (i.e. me) didn't decide to use white phosphorus. The developers forced us to use it.

According to them, "you could have just stopped playing the game". Which is technically true. But nobody stops following a story they got invested in just because they can see it will end up going horrible places, so the devs are little more then pretentious wankers.

Anyhoo.
Almost forgot how good Yahtzee's skill with words was. There's probably a reason I've yet to miss a ZP episode.

Truth.

I keep getting quoted by pretentious fucks who conveniently forget that the game asks me to make moral choices throughout the rest of the story. So not only is the game a badly outdated and poorly designed, bland, unoriginal waste of time, it also is inconsistent with it's primary theme's; Is the game about Walker, or is it a critique of the player?

There's no reason it can't be both, but the game is designed in such a way, that it can only be one or the other.

 

[Ed130 The Vanguard]

Captain Walker (i.e. me) didn't decide to use white phosphorus. The developers forced us to use it.

Yes that is correct. However...

Spoiler: spoilers for Spec Ops

When you reach the two hanging guys or the refugee camp, the set-up is exactly the same. Only this time you do have a choice, but the player assuming they are being railroaded can do the evil dead anyway without looking for another way.

Its another way the developers can point to you and say it was your choice, you didn't look hard enough.

 

[Carnagath]

I really liked Spec Ops but I feel it would've made its point a little better if you could actually turn around and leave like you were supposed to at any point.

Do the other modern milsims give you the option? You are doing horrific things, but the games say it's all for the best, because it's the way to proceed. Now you have the option to witness up close and personal one of these situations where things didn't turn out well. It's showing you there's a disconnect between the things that you do in games and what they are portrayed as.

Spoiler

It's no wonder Captain Wanker goes mad. Any sane person would. But he really doesn't have a choice... there's an uncaring unfeeling force driving him forward no matter what. He also want's to believe everything he does has some kind of purpose and that it turns out well. But there is no mission for him there. It's a lot like real life, really.

The game asks these questions not only on the personal level, but also on a wider cultural level. What kind of culture is it that thinks gunning people down or sneaking up to a bloke and slitting his throat is jolly good fun? Soldiers are lauded as heroes, but those that come back from "action" more often than not aren't inclined to talk about what they did or saw.

You, along with Spec Ops's devs, seem to be confusing real life violence with videogame violence. You can't draw cultural conclusions based on some videogame's violence, since, as with violence in movies, it's purely aesthetic. There is no victim and no actual immorality attached to it. What I did, as a player, was play a game, where polygons interact in a way that I may fight entertaining and/or cathartic given my disposition at that specific time. While I was doing that, someone else in the world was actually stabbing someone in the face. You can form a statement from the latter, but not really from the former, at least not a statement of any practical value. Guilt tripping people for playing videogames is completely ignorant, and when you are the one who actually made the game it borders on insane. Or insanely hypocritical and pretentious.

 

[daxterx2005]

just wait till we get a Tomb raider Uncharted cross over...

 

[Ariseishirou]

I don't get it, Yahtzee. You say you don't like it when a game makes all challenges optional and there's no difficulty, yet you ragequit games like Demons' Souls when it forces you to complete difficult challenges to continue. You can't have it both ways.

 

[head desk tricycle]

I don't think that cutscenes and storylines and arbitrary objectives automatically ruin the feeling of being in control. For example, GTA Vice City and GTA San Andreas both had roughly equal amounts of that stuff, but Vice City makes me feel like I'm Tommy Vercetti, and GTA San Andreas makes me feel like I'm just watching the adventures of this separate guy named Carl Johnson. Or Majora's Mask, that game starts with a massive cutscene that seems to never end, but it does such a great job of pulling me into the game's creepy world that it doesn't bother me even a little bit.

 

[Onliuge]

Tomb Raider

This week, Zero Punctuation reviews Tomb Raider.

Watch Video

Yahtzee, your next review will be on my birthday. I would like you to seem somewhat happy on my birthday. So I recommend two games, Terraria and Magicka. Have a good week.

 

[floppylobster]

Life makes so much more sense to me now I know the document bunny exists.

 

[floppylobster]

I too held off on the QTE in the "rape scene" to see how it unfolded, and turns out he was just trying to kill her just like every other murderer on the island. So the people who condemned this game (and the developers) for that scene will be feeling like a right bunch of sillies now won't they?

Oh wait, they're nowhere to be seen! Gosh, I wonder where they went, I wonder what happened to the controversy...it's so unlike them to suddenly vanish after the game's release like that, never happened before...

Is there any chance the developer's changed the outcome of that QTE once the controversy started brewing? It seems like an easy fix with a few months development time still in hand (unlike Resident Evil 5's 'problems')

 

[romxxii]

I have to agree with a lot of people this game was very fun, but like was said in the review I was not invested in her emotionally during the gameplay. Though I will say there were some touching moments when she was interacting with her friends (friends by the way that I thought were 100 times more interesting then Lara and wanted to know their story, RIP stereotypical Irishman).

Also something he didn't touch on in the review, did anyone else notice this game suffered from some completely useless skills? Why would you offer me to point out all the optional tombs on the map when the game will do that for me anyways if you get within a mile of them?

Gotta agree with the skill "tree" being underdeveloped. My problem was, even before the game ends, with minimal item hunting, you can max out all the skills. In fact, in my extended post-game run through, 10 minutes in and I've already gotten 2 useless skill points, because I've already bought everything.

That said, I actually enjoyed the game a lot. I wouldn't call the plot brilliant, but it did the job. Plus, parkouring through those levels always felt intuitive.

 

[mrhateful]

I think Zero hit it the nail on the head in terms of problems with the game. That said I still think it was enjoyable.

 

[romxxii]

[the spec ops PC] decides to use the white phosphorous!

Eh? No he doesn't. It's not optional. Unless you count "stop playing the game" as an option. But then TR has that option too.

"stop playing the game" was being subtly hinted at with Spec Ops, and the hint got stronger the longer you stayed in the game.

Tomb Raider, on the other hand, encouraged you to push through, be a big girl, and kill all the cultists. "Stop playing the game" isn't really an option, in terms of the narrative.

 

[Metalrocks]

had some good points but but the game as such is still fun.
and wrong, in spec ops you dint had the option if you want to use the phosphorous. you had to. in TR at least you had the option if you go stealthy or just shoot down every time you see someone.
yes, the game does have a lot of action but at the same time the character is well explained. but i have to agree that the side characters arent really well explained. especially sam. we hardly know anything about her and she is laras best friend.