Most (NOT ALL) Disney cute animal/buddy characters are pointless. There's the raccoon and the humming bird in Pocahontas. What did they ever do for the plot? Also the gargoyles from Hunchback.TheSYLOH said:
Zero Sum Characters
- Thread starter zelda2fanboy
- Start date
Recommended Videos
To continue this line even further.Thunderous Cacophony said:
DA2's story is really weird, as many people have pointed out, but if you can look through the obvious rushedness and "bioware writing" (you know what I mean!) I believe it's an attempt to deconstruct the ultra-generic heroic fantasy story which a lot of reviewers were really critical of Origins about.
Heroic fantasy is all about the goal, and the hero is important because they are the only person who can complete the goal, "fulfil their destiny" or whatever. In DA2, Hawke is basically at the mercy of fate the whole way through. Everything he or she attempts to accomplish either fails or doesn't ultimately matter, because the big events just kind of occur around him or her.
Heck, that's the whole deal with the framing device. Cassandra has only heard these awesome heroic stories about Hawke, so Cassandra consistently assumes that Hawke is incredibly important to understanding what has happened, but the whole point of Varric's story is that Hawke isn't important. He or she was just there.
So yes, the siblings aren't integral to the plot if the plot is the Qunari uprising or the mage/templar war, but then neither is Hawke. But the fact that at the end of the game Hawke either has or does not have a surviving sibling (with whom they either do or do not make peace) is pretty important. It's a small thing, but the whole point of the story is that sometimes small things are all one person can really control.
Heroic fantasy is all about the goal, and the hero is important because they are the only person who can complete the goal, "fulfil their destiny" or whatever. In DA2, Hawke is basically at the mercy of fate the whole way through. Everything he or she attempts to accomplish either fails or doesn't ultimately matter, because the big events just kind of occur around him or her.
Heck, that's the whole deal with the framing device. Cassandra has only heard these awesome heroic stories about Hawke, so Cassandra consistently assumes that Hawke is incredibly important to understanding what has happened, but the whole point of Varric's story is that Hawke isn't important. He or she was just there.
So yes, the siblings aren't integral to the plot if the plot is the Qunari uprising or the mage/templar war, but then neither is Hawke. But the fact that at the end of the game Hawke either has or does not have a surviving sibling (with whom they either do or do not make peace) is pretty important. It's a small thing, but the whole point of the story is that sometimes small things are all one person can really control.
There's some room for that interpretation at first, but the sequel crushes it by having another character interact with the gargoyles as well (much to their shock).Vault101 said:
I know Disney straight-to-DVD sequels suck balls but I have to give their canonicity the benefit of the doubtVault101 said:
Huh... Now that I think about it, characters like Konohamaru and the like don't even become relevant to anything "major" plot-related in Naruto until AFTER the time-skip... I'm not sure if that counts or anything, but that was literally the first thing that popped into my head...
no you don't.....Johnny Novgorod said:I know Disney straight-to-DVD sequels suck balls but I have to give their canonicity the benefit of the doubt
I get the impression this is one of the few cases where ignoring them is not only permitted but pretty much expected
They do have a point.Thunderous Cacophony said:
To tie into the mages if Hawke isn't one or the templars (Carver joins them if you don't take him to the deep roads) if Hawke is. I haven't played through with Carver but for Bethany the plot has more weight if there is mage in immediate family, more so if they are in the circle rather then being made a grey warden.
The fact that there is a ton of magic in their bloodline is suppose to be one of the reasons their family name isn't as respected any more, caused them a lot of trouble and why Hawkes mother had a falling out with her family. They leave after the first act but that's a fair way into the game. How much of a motivation they are for Hawke depends on you play them. I don't know about Carver but you can definitely play up protecting Bethany as motivation.
The fact that there is a ton of magic in their bloodline is suppose to be one of the reasons their family name isn't as respected any more, caused them a lot of trouble and why Hawkes mother had a falling out with her family. They leave after the first act but that's a fair way into the game. How much of a motivation they are for Hawke depends on you play them. I don't know about Carver but you can definitely play up protecting Bethany as motivation.
The guy who douses his cigarette on the T-800 is the one to whom he says the immortal line "I need your clothes, your boots, and your motorcycle", so removing that guy would be removing that entire scene. Even the trailers spoil it, but the film itself early on makes it ambiguous which Terminator is the reprogrammed one, and so having the scene that establishes that the T-800 uses extreme violence to achieve its ends (and also how he got the clothes, boots and motorcycle he shows up with, which I guess the audience could infer if he just showed up dressed but that would leave them with a lot of questions) is quite important for the plot.DoPo said:
I mean, you're not wrong about characters in general, I'm just nitpicking about the specific example you chose... although it's possible that any particular example you chose could be nitpicked away, in which case your general point would be wrong, it kind of depends on what counts as "the plot" - what would you have if you removed everything that wasn't "the plot" from a book? does the worldbuilding all go? The character development? Are the actions the characters take "the plot"? - and who you consider a character, since that complete rando who's just standing on the stage in setting-appropriate costume probably isn't a real character.
Yeah, I think that's where my subconscious pulled the idea from. In my morning haze, I think I shrugged it off by arguing that the main plot of Raiders could technically not be the nazi plan to steal the ark, but the love story between him and Marian.Schadrach said:
She also was the only person who decided that maybe the guy with the melting head should stay off the ship.HardkorSB said: