Zippy labs presents Sonic a makeover.

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ZippyDSMlee

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Zippy labs presents Sonic a makeover.

Here is a decent reboot title name
Sonic:Beginnings. Or simply ?Sonic?

The foundations of the games plot and story is based on the genesis titles, but like the other blue or red guy lets add an extra layer of detail to story. The story takes a heavy nod from the comic(the good ones) themes, you?ve got tails, the Bionic bunny girl and the Princesses who is leader of the rebellion,ect,ect,ect.

Sonic is a loner type who helps them when he can. Even though he is a loner type he is easy going and somewhat crass, the more he meets up with the rebels he kind of starts licking them, for each stage the rebels have different goals, some levels have 3 or 4 like mining for stuff or stealing TnT ect,ect you can help them with moving stuff or by distracting the areas gauds and boss by fighting them or just using hit and run tactics.

----------Powers, abilities, equipment----------

From the start he has basic abilities fist(when combined with spiked gloves it makes for easier location of weak spots as you can stun enemies easier with them), defense, jump, wall jump(that takes stamina after the 2nd jump to limit it some), run, spin, and spin up, ricochet and sticky wall crawl abilities.

He can buy/find new powers and abilities that make his normal ones more effective. Like double jump Or better wall crawling abilities,ect,ect

The you can buy interchangeable elemental gimmicks that change what does what , like air spin that keeps you going in a upward direction. Or the ability to spin over water move/fight much better in water. Or better wall crawling abilities that let you hang on much longer than you normally would and stick into metals as well.Stnima regen while in use,more life points or lose less rings on hit find more rings,ect,ect

Defense like others have 4-6 levels at 20 you lose 20% of all your rings at 1 you lose 90% of your rings if you have no life points.

Life points are like heats on Zelda you can get a max of 6 and are treated as 100 ring life blocks so whe you get hit whatever you defense is you lose from that 100 ring block, any rings left over are counted with the next ring block, when all the life points are gone your at risk of losing all the rings you gathered.

Each stage you can dump rings into a chest or take them out of it so you will have a backup of rings if needed.

In Spin and run mode you have a slow down button that is tied to a stamina gauge, also in spin mode you hit the jump button just when you hit anything in the game(wall, enemy, anything that you can?t ramp off of basically ) this allows you to instantly kick off whatever you hit and change your direction with no speed loss.

Also you can go into drive mode this treats sonic more like a vehicle making it easier to speed up/down while going at any speed in a spin or just running. You still can use the ricochet and slow time techniques but is harder to stop so you either do a controlled spin out on the ground or you crash into something if you don?t have room for the controlled spin down, a third option would to burn up to 5% of all your rings to come to a quick and full stop. This number can be lessened as you upgrade it to 5,3,1 and 0.

Going Super Sonic dose 2 things one you are faster than normal and have unlimited stamina so you can control him a lot better, also while SS is on being hit only drops a few rings as this will eat up all your rings while you are in super mode. Also you cannot die or be hurt from most environmental or boss elemental effects and take only slight damage from physical or non element attacks. So SS mode is meant to be used as a kind of invincible dash/spin attack to get to where you need to go as fast as you can without worrying about damage.

Boss fights and such spit out rings or have a secondary weakness as so you can heal up a bit and try and get ready for another SS attack.

------------Level design themes and emphasis------------------

Level designs will be a mix of sonic adventure,mario64 and Zelda. The levels themselves will have 4-12 layers the highest layers being the most difficult to get to, and by level I mean one hill is higher than the other a tree top is a layer, you can go under a hill and such that is also layer.

Think Mario sunshine with more layers in the level design.
As such you work the ramps and loops into the stage you are in. I would hope the design could just blend the ramps and loops into the stage so it looks like it?s part of the stage not just an added thing that looks out of place. Besides blending them in you need to have them built so you can chose not to go through the loops and ramps.

Also within the levels you can save trapped animals and such

---------------Adventure, explore and lives.-------------

Stages are open to where you can go but without a lot of abilities you are kinda limited to where you can go. But stages have depth in layout designs on the scale of Zelda and
Rings are used as HP, after 100 or 1000 you get a ?life? this life dose 1 thing brings you right back to the last check point you hit, also you need a life to go Super sonic, which is invincibility+ Speed+ infinite stamina and use about 1 ring per every 3 or 5 seconds.

Stages can be selected from the main screen or in game jump points some of which you have to unlock, all stages can be replayed if you score 100% on items, rings, race sports and rebel quests that area becomes a supper happy zone with a lot of flora and funa based on the levels type with random rings galore for the hero to get, sometimes this freed zones have not rings sometimes they have little and sometimes that have 10X as many rings as they had the first time around.

Exploring is a bit of run and jump platform ,racing zone, using speed mixed with wall clawing and ricocheting to get into areas that are hard to get into.

In order to control pacing use the emeralds(static drop by a boss) as a key that allows you to disable/pass through force filed protected areas.

-------Fighting-----------

Fighting comes down to fists and kicks for small and medium targets , you can do a slide kick and jump kick and jump stomp with the spikes as well as spinning with the spikes, most heavy monsters will have a weakness you have to find and hit, otherwise you need ramming speed for a spinning spike attack to kill it or stun it and get to the weak spot and take it out.
If dealing with a lot of targets you can use the ricochet and just whack around till their all taken care of And think of the boss fight you can maneuver around do air spin ups and stick to a large enemy speed spin around it till you can hit the weak spot.
Fighting tends to run on short bursts of speed, dashing , dodging and long speed build ups that are hard for the enemy to stop.

The main goal for small fights is quick and effective combat a rolling jump into a spin, a quick dash into a spin for larger enemies you have to get them off their feet or stun them and find the weakness, but should not take more than 3 moves to do it.

Default settings

The default settings are basically on easy, anytime you go into a speed mode things slow down a bit so you can keep up with the game, say a 30% to 40% speed reduction stamina using slow mode is more 50-60% and the stamina loss is halved, normal mode takes away the speed reduction in a normal speed mode.
Super easy mode is like normal mode but when you lose 15% of whatever amount of rings you are suppose to lose, Super slow and easy mode is like the default easy mode only it?s at 20% all the time,+ 20% less in a normal speed mode, going into slow mode ups it to 70% and the stamina loss is halved.

Hard core mode ups stamina use by 30%, and lowers slow mode to 40%.
Insanity mode changes stamina to how much damage you can take before leaking rings, there is no slow down so stamina is mainly used as a 6 level 100 ring ring block(its also used for wall jumps which shows a different color on the white/blue default stamina bar), kind of like the life points above but takes 5 times to recover in combat mode and will be ignored until totally filled, its used as a buffer from death that will come constantly hard and fast..
All above settings also come as unlockables in the game(or a cheap DLC for a buck) , when you find them all you can play a custom game under your rules, custom games either have their own board(with the settings given a numerical scale and then all like games can be scored from A hardest to G easiest) or not tracked for online statistics.

Special stages are hard as heck, they are meant to hide extras like super power ups and such you have about 1 special stage every 2 or 3 levels, and you only keep the rings and stuff you earn in them if you manage to beat the whole thing, otherwise you get kicked out losing only the rings you used to open the way up, the up side is you can keep at it paying 10% of your total rings(which is the only number counted as far as losing rings go, you do not lose rings in the special stage you lose stamina 1 ring= 1% stamina as long as you are getting rings and hitting the stamina boosters items you can clear a special stage ).

=============
ya ya I know half assed unfinished but all my shiz is like that
 

demoman_chaos

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So basically a Sonic RPG, which they did. Tails Adventure on the Sega Game Gear.

Why not make a Sonic game like the old ones, but without relying entirely on nostalgia like Sonic 4 is (for example, the "you got a continue" tune is the Sonic 3 "you got an ectra life" tune)?
 

Salem_Wolf

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Sounds like you're replacing Sonic with Knuckles, what with the combat system and the "spiked gloves". If you want a Knuckles game you can play Sonic & Knuckles or Sonic 3 & Knuckles. Though I would kind of like a more "Zelda"-like Sonic game, I think an open-world Sonic game with his full-speed (if anyone saw The Flash video game video that was released after it was canceled you'll see what I mean) would be a LOT of fun.
 

ahrnygoose

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It sounds interesting, and it is pretty well thought out. However, 3D hasn't been Sonic's best friend. Sonic 3D Blast was the first of many nails in the coffin. Plus, the fighting mechanics you listed sound very repetitive. It also sounds more like it is about Knuckles than Sonic with all the punching. Otherwise, I think there is potential with this idea.
 

Erana

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*sigh*
We all have to admit, there's something about Sonic that makes gamers not want him to be in such a terrible state.
Personally, though, I just want to see them let the other characters handle the RPG elements, and let Sonic just go back to being fast.
There aren't enough non-racing, high-speed experiences in video games.

And honestly, the idea that Sonic can't translate to 3D is ridiculous. Just look at how unpolished the controls are in every Sonic game! The people who have had the IP are simply incompetent.
Hell, just put quicktime elements into the going-fast stuff, and make it feel like Sonic with a hint of Guitar Hero.

Still, there are some nice ideas here- I don't see why you've restricted yourself to thinking about someone else's IP.
 

ZippyDSMlee

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demoman_chaos said:
So basically a Sonic RPG, which they did. Tails Adventure on the Sega Game Gear.

Why not make a Sonic game like the old ones, but without relying entirely on nostalgia like Sonic 4 is (for example, the "you got a continue" tune is the Sonic 3 "you got an ectra life" tune)?
Er...no....
Action RPG designs are one of the most widely used.
2D is passe, its cute but mehy 9 times out of ten, new 8bit is maximized assbackwardness next to porting old games directly to disc for new systems.

Dose 2D have its place in modern gaming, yes but I think its secondary or tertiary to fully refined 3D development(which we aint even close to fully refined as most 3D games are flat and frankly bland), idealistically it should be just a step or 2 behind 3D as 3D is the norm but I dunno the same amount of laziness in designs has made 2D more generic feeling at least for me it as , The 2 CV games on the DS before Order of Ecclesia were the worst kinda of rehased weak uber generic 2D as you can get.

I guess it comes down to damned if you do damned if you don't


Salem_Wolf said:
Sounds like you're replacing Sonic with Knuckles, what with the combat system and the "spiked gloves". If you want a Knuckles game you can play Sonic & Knuckles or Sonic 3 & Knuckles. Though I would kind of like a more "Zelda"-like Sonic game, I think an open-world Sonic game with his full-speed (if anyone saw The Flash video game video that was released after it was canceled you'll see what I mean) would be a LOT of fun.
Well its a thought I might be mashing things up a bit but the thought is there to share, I was thinking about Mario 64 when I was writing it so I thought his normal gloves would not do the trick thus why I thought about spiked knuckles.

I think handling sonic and his duality of speed is something that is lost on devs they just see him as he was and try and translate that into 3D which becomes very difficult because they made sonic with typically 2 modes spinning ball mode and platfomrer without thinking much about what is in between.


Ok so drop the knuckle idea keep the spin spike mode that can climb a wall, put in a air spin mode where he an gain air and spin up, use the stamina gauge and slow mo as means to have precise control over sonic while in speed modes, and make levels larger than mario but with the same designs plus areas where you can go into a kinda of vehicle mode, add new abilities and levels to his abilities to control the pace of the game.

Its alot more thought out than the haphazard Sonic 3D games they have put out.

ahrnygoose said:
It sounds interesting, and it is pretty well thought out. However, 3D hasn't been Sonic's best friend. Sonic 3D Blast was the first of many nails in the coffin. Plus, the fighting mechanics you listed sound very repetitive. It also sounds more like it is about Knuckles than Sonic with all the punching. Otherwise, I think there is potential with this idea.
Well how repetitive is Mario?

... ramble mode engage

Lets start out with a basic sonic he has a good level of stamina for slow mo, health is kinda like the newer Mario games but revolves around heart points and rings.

Action entails the basic Sonic movies you can jump, you can spin(in a jump on the ground), you can spin up to launch an attack or go into vehicle mode, bored yet? These are the basics that get fouled up every time.

Now lets toss in Zelda mechanics and build upon the Mario64 ones, you an do a slide kick, and a punch(grabs 360 pad so I can work this out)

Ok so

X is attack witch can do 3 punches by itself or ques a 2nd string of attack functions using other buttons. Punching is well ... used as a feint to open up a weakness or just dispatch small enemies.

A becomes spin, On the ground in a spin you hit A twice do a sldieing kick, this is used to open a weakness or get under something that a spin is to high for. Wile in a jump you can spin and gain some hang time hit A while in the the air or on the ground and you do a dashing spin attack that lands you back where you where(think of Sonic as the sword and link at the same time) this is used to do a medium attack on a target you are encircling .

B is jump, if you go from X to B you can kinda inch upward, if you do this while in vechile mode going off a ramp you can swing your body out of a spin upward(like a rag doll) then return to a spin this can give you time to get higher to get to a new ramp or adjust your direction.


Shoulder buttons can be used for slow mo and vehicle mode control also dodge, dodge works kinda like Batman:AA counter but with a slightly longer dely the Dpad is also used with the Dpad you can control your direction while you are dodgeing, double tap to dodge out of a area tap once to dash just out of range of a attack but stay close to your target.


Now add to it ricochet mode to bounce from one target to another, wall crawl to take care of larger enemies and explore a larger area, add in basic equipment to up his abilities and add flavor(elements,effects,ect) to them.

Kinda running out of steam right now but you get the general idea of what I am thinking of.


Erana said:
*sigh*
We all have to admit, there's something about Sonic that makes gamers not want him to be in such a terrible state.
Personally, though, I just want to see them let the other characters handle the RPG elements, and let Sonic just go back to being fast.
There aren't enough non-racing, high-speed experiences in video games.

And honestly, the idea that Sonic can't translate to 3D is ridiculous. Just look at how unpolished the controls are in every Sonic game! The people who have had the IP are simply incompetent.
Hell, just put quicktime elements into the going-fast stuff, and make it feel like Sonic with a hint of Guitar Hero.

Still, there are some nice ideas here- I don't see why you've restricted yourself to thinking about someone else's IP.
Ya sonic needs polished controls something to merge the speed and the platforming/exploring together in the mechanics and a few other small things that flesh out its core in a 3D environment.

Depends on what the voices are musing on
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/writing-and-wutbits/writing-projects/
http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

I will tackle a game remake/do over,ect when the muses wanna, other wise its my normal drooling ramble until they want to write something a bit more dry.
 

AdamRBi

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The glory of the classic games was their simplicity, so much so that they had time to focus on making the games feel controllable. Until they return to this, I don't think adding in additional gear or life points will do anything but diminish this core. You're on the same train of though Sonic Team in this regard, "how many things can we add to the series to make it better."

Adding a Mobius world, as like the comics and shows, is the one thing you suggest that I think would work. Fans and knarks alike chastise Sonic for fraternizing with humans as well as for being an anamorphic hedgehog. Time for the writers to take a stand and maybe make Sonic's world make a bit more sense and develop minor npcs who are also anamorphic. I wouldn't drag Bunnie, Rotor, or Sally and the like into it though. That'd cause some confusion or even worse, alternate dimension flibberflabber excuses like they do in the DC Comics universe.

Lastly, Sonic only needs two types of gameplay: Slow, Manageable Platforming and Speedy, reaction-based roller coasters. Mix these right and you have a classic title. Only then can you try adding something into the mix, so long as it doesn't interfere with the core gameplay mechanic.
 

ZippyDSMlee

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AdamRBi said:
The glory of the classic games was their simplicity, so much so that they had time to focus on making the games feel controllable. Until they return to this, I don't think adding in additional gear or life points will do anything but diminish this core. You're on the same train of though Sonic Team in this regard, "how many things can we add to the series to make it better."

Adding a Mobius world, as like the comics and shows, is the one thing you suggest that I think would work. Fans and knarks alike chastise Sonic for fraternizing with humans as well as for being an anamorphic hedgehog. Time for the writers to take a stand and maybe make Sonic's world make a bit more sense and develop minor npcs who are also anamorphic. I wouldn't drag Bunnie, Rotor, or Sally and the like into it though. That'd cause some confusion or even worse, alternate dimension flibberflabber excuses like they do in the DC Comics universe.

Lastly, Sonic only needs two types of gameplay: Slow, Manageable Platforming and Speedy, reaction-based roller coasters. Mix these right and you have a classic title. Only then can you try adding something into the mix, so long as it doesn't interfere with the core gameplay mechanic.
If that were the case EP4 would not be trash....

As for story Sonic is not known for one even Zelda has reboots of the story, Sonic could easily do that.
 

AdamRBi

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ZippyDSMlee said:
AdamRBi said:
The glory of the classic games was their simplicity, so much so that they had time to focus on making the games feel controllable. Until they return to this, I don't think adding in additional gear or life points will do anything but diminish this core. You're on the same train of though Sonic Team in this regard, "how many things can we add to the series to make it better."

Adding a Mobius world, as like the comics and shows, is the one thing you suggest that I think would work. Fans and knarks alike chastise Sonic for fraternizing with humans as well as for being an anamorphic hedgehog. Time for the writers to take a stand and maybe make Sonic's world make a bit more sense and develop minor npcs who are also anamorphic. I wouldn't drag Bunnie, Rotor, or Sally and the like into it though. That'd cause some confusion or even worse, alternate dimension flibberflabber excuses like they do in the DC Comics universe.

Lastly, Sonic only needs two types of gameplay: Slow, Manageable Platforming and Speedy, reaction-based roller coasters. Mix these right and you have a classic title. Only then can you try adding something into the mix, so long as it doesn't interfere with the core gameplay mechanic.
If that were the case EP4 would not be trash....

As for story Sonic is not known for one even Zelda has reboots of the story, Sonic could easily do that.
Sonic 4 failed due to poor implementing of this. It had poor physics that lead to poor control, and any bad control can ruin a game.

As for rebooting the story, that all depends on the writing. You need someone who's not only a good writer but is also able to deliver the same character we know and love in a familier environment within the new story.

If you don't have this, you end up with disasters like "Shadow the Hedgehog" and "Sonic the Hedgehog 2006." Both supposedly grittier revivals of the franchise that died under the weight of bad writing and shoddy controls.
 

ZippyDSMlee

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AdamRBi said:
ZippyDSMlee said:
AdamRBi said:
The glory of the classic games was their simplicity, so much so that they had time to focus on making the games feel controllable. Until they return to this, I don't think adding in additional gear or life points will do anything but diminish this core. You're on the same train of though Sonic Team in this regard, "how many things can we add to the series to make it better."

Adding a Mobius world, as like the comics and shows, is the one thing you suggest that I think would work. Fans and knarks alike chastise Sonic for fraternizing with humans as well as for being an anamorphic hedgehog. Time for the writers to take a stand and maybe make Sonic's world make a bit more sense and develop minor npcs who are also anamorphic. I wouldn't drag Bunnie, Rotor, or Sally and the like into it though. That'd cause some confusion or even worse, alternate dimension flibberflabber excuses like they do in the DC Comics universe.

Lastly, Sonic only needs two types of gameplay: Slow, Manageable Platforming and Speedy, reaction-based roller coasters. Mix these right and you have a classic title. Only then can you try adding something into the mix, so long as it doesn't interfere with the core gameplay mechanic.
If that were the case EP4 would not be trash....

As for story Sonic is not known for one even Zelda has reboots of the story, Sonic could easily do that.
Sonic 4 failed due to poor implementing of this. It had poor physics that lead to poor control, and any bad control can ruin a game.

As for rebooting the story, that all depends on the writing. You need someone who's not only a good writer but is also able to deliver the same character we know and love in a familier environment within the new story.

If you don't have this, you end up with disasters like "Shadow the Hedgehog" and "Sonic the Hedgehog 2006." Both supposedly grittier revivals of the franchise that died under the weight of bad writing and shoddy controls.
Mostly due to bad control, bad writing tends to be ignored more than bad controls.
Tho under developed controls are ignored PPpfftttttt good enough is not good enough >>