Families of Buffalo Massacre Victims Sue Meta, Reddit, and Google Over Conspiracy Theories

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Cicada 5

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The lawsuit was filed yesterday in the New York Supreme Court in Buffalo, and names Meta, Instagram, Reddit, Google, YouTube, Snap, 4Chan, Twitch, and Discord as defendants—Gendron planned the shooting for months on the latter. Also listed is Vintage Firearms, the store that sold the shooter the gun, and RMA Armament, the online retailer the shooter used to purchased body armor. The lawsuit seeks an unknown amount in financial damages as well as changes to the companies’ safety standards, with the plaintiffs calling the platforms “defective and unreasonably dangerous.”
 

Absent

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I can't imagine they're going to have too much success with this.
No but we can dream. Of shattering the extreme-right propaganda's old "but it's just words anyway" fallacy.
 
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Phoenixmgs

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No but we can dream. Of shattering the extreme-right propaganda's old "but it's just words anyway" fallacy.
And the left wing's propaganda that something is a conspiracy theory usually ends being true in like 6 months. What about that government doctor on 60 minutes this year saying obesity is mainly genetic, that's literally more dangerous. You gonna silence her?

Does nobody have principles here? How many dystopian futures of information control do y'all need to see?

Stopping someone's speech is bad, full stop.
 

Casual Shinji

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No but we can dream. Of shattering the extreme-right propaganda's old "but it's just words anyway" fallacy.
Dude, they're way beyond even dragging out that excuse anymore. That's when they were still small enough to feel the need hide behind civility. Long gone now - they're out and proud facists who know they'll get away and paid for being out and proud facists.
 

Gergar12

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There is no good answer to the intolerance paradox. You silence anyone based on a line/fixed rules and people will operate below it. You silence based on moderators and people will accuse the moderators of bias and get their own page. You put people’s names on their posts and you have destroyed the progressive movement alongside the right wing minus older gen people on Facebook who are already retired. And if you don’t silence the enemies of democracy they will destroy the democracy.
 

Absent

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There is no good answer to the intolerance paradox. You silence anyone based on a line/fixed rules and people will operate below it. You silence based on moderators and people will accuse the moderators of bias and get their own page. You put people’s names on their posts and you have destroyed the progressive movement alongside the right wing minus older gen people on Facebook who are already retired. And if you don’t silence the enemies of democracy they will destroy the democracy.
Yep but we make do with that paradox that touches on many other aspects of society. We have policemen, we have judges, we have whole systems that operate similarly imperfectly, because humans are flawed and machines will always be worse (in fact humans are at their worst when they operate like machines) and nothing at all is even worse. We have to make do, with devices over devices and watchmen to watch the watchmen. Failsafe, accountability, adjustments, trial-and-error, overhauls... It's never a "done" thing. There's no "fire-and-forget" system. It's doomed to stay in a perpetual state of invention. Forever "work in progress" (and regress).
 

Kwak

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And the left wing's propaganda that something is a conspiracy theory usually ends being true in like 6 months.
Which one of these events' related conspiracy theory do you consider to be true and that would justify the harrassment of victims of the events?
 
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CM156

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I will be shocked if any of these claims make it past the pre-trial motions.
 

Phoenixmgs

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Not really.

Neo nazi's spouting nazi ideologie shouldn't be suffered to speak.

That's one example.
You can stand on a street corner and say anything good or bad about Nazis if you want.

Always here for phoenixmgs galaxy brained takes. 👌

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You're against free speech?

Which one of these events' related conspiracy theory do you consider to be true and that would justify the harrassment of victims of the events?
Not sure exactly what you're asking. Harassment is never justified, you can stand on a corner and say whatever you want, but when you start following someone to continue your messaging when they're trying to leave, then it becomes harassment.

I will be shocked if any of these claims make it past the pre-trial motions.
Yup, totally bogus case that's going nowhere.

Unless it's something you're totally okay with, like your favourite state governor banning educational courses and otherwise micromanaging what teachers can say in class.
The class wasn't banned. We've always had rules about what you can and cannot say to kids because they're kids and not adults.
 

Absent

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You're against free speech?
I can think of roughly 6 million jews and 1 million tutsis who are "against free speech", but of course the extreme-right isn't too fond of us keeping that in mind.

We've always had rules about what you can and cannot say to kids because they're kids and not adults.
Aaaand there we go with the "free speech except". You're against free speech ?
 
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Phoenixmgs

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I can think of roughly 6 million jews and 1 million tutsis who are "against free speech", but of course the extreme-right isn't too fond of us keeping that in mind.


Aaaand there we go with the "free speech except". You're against free speech ?
Do you not realize how steep and slippery the slope is when you start trying to decide what can and cannot be said? The right used to be for censorship and the left anti-censorship and now that has flipped. I stick to principles vs always following a team.

Bad faith argument right there.
 

Absent

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Bad faith argument right there.
Yes. No need to mention it, you're transparent enough.

But if it needs being spelled out : everything in life is a matter of putting awkward thresholds on continuums, and we do it all the time and we are forced to. On all activities, everything that is legal, illegal, allowed, tolerated, punished, all identities, all frontiers, all judgements and decisions can collapse under legitimately negociable "why this and not its immediate neighbour", and you could obliterate everything with such infinite regression. But bad faith, you only do it about "free speech" (amusingly, the same people are usually very reluctant to do it with capital punishment, amongst other things). And of course bad faith : nobody ever wants absolute "free speech", everybody ends up fighting to silence this or that exception because this or that (and all laws are built around this - inane libertarians trying to frame it as "well, urrh, it's free speech but, like, with consequences"). Absolute hypocrisy. And you've given an example of it yourself, two posts ago.
 

CaitSeith

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Section 230 is going to make the lawsuit fizzle out sooner or later.
I will be shocked if any of these claims make it past the pre-trial motions.
It has happened tho. Gonzalez v. Google LLC and Twitter, Inc. v. Taamneh made it up to the Supreme Court earlier this year.
 

Phoenixmgs

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Yes. No need to mention it, you're transparent enough.

But if it needs being spelled out : everything in life is a matter of putting awkward thresholds on continuums, and we do it all the time and we are forced to. On all activities, everything that is legal, illegal, allowed, tolerated, punished, all identities, all frontiers, all judgements and decisions can collapse under legitimately negociable "why this and not its immediate neighbour", and you could obliterate everything with such infinite regression. But bad faith, you only do it about "free speech" (amusingly, the same people are usually very reluctant to do it with capital punishment, amongst other things). And of course bad faith : nobody ever wants absolute "free speech", everybody ends up fighting to silence this or that exception because this or that (and all laws are built around this - inane libertarians trying to frame it as "well, urrh, it's free speech but, like, with consequences"). Absolute hypocrisy. And you've given an example of it yourself, two posts ago.
It's a bad faith argument because everyone knows kids operate under different rules than adults. It's why they can't drive or drink or smoke or work or see an R rated movie or make financial decisions or tons upon tons of other things.
 

Absent

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It's a bad faith argument because everyone knows kids operate under different rules than adults. It's why they can't drive or drink or smoke or work or see an R rated movie or make financial decisions or tons upon tons of other things.
Therefore "everyone knows" that absolute free speech is bullshit.
 
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