Overrated and over-hated

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BrawlMan

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I remember it, it originally wasn't even going to have Ken and Ryu? And from what I've heard, it didn't really hit its stride until 3rd Strike. I suppose Capcom deserves some credit for sticking with it. (Although I still think they owe me a refund for all the quarters I wasted trying to beat Gill. How about you Resurrect my foot up your ass.)
Yes. Like I said before, the first one wasn't even going be a Street Fighter game. Ken and Ryu were added at the last minute of the first iteration, after play testers and test audiences complained.
Well fair enough I guess.
Personally I'm not a fan of all the shooting and killing in those games but not because of "ludonarrative dissonance" or whatever, but because I just find shooting combat boring. I really like the new Tomb Raider games but I also kind of make of the GRITTY- a remnant of the trend of GRITTY everything. And I love all the Uncharteds. The appeal for me is the Indy Jones style exploring and cool set pieces anyway.
That was the problem with TRR: they went so hard on the grittiness, darkness, and misery builds character that it's very disingenuous. Developers of this game, and many professional critics to a disturbing degree, we're going all in on the misery builds character or "she needs to be protected" thing. Especially in the first game of the reboot trilogy.

Uncharted can get serious, but it has some self-awareness and knows how to have fun.
 
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But I also did kinda like the whole thing with Lara Croft and her dad and making her an actual character. Sure it went a bit hard on the GRITTY but for me, it wasn't a big deal.

Man.. I would play the shit out of a new Lara Croft game right about now. Ah, well.
 

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But I also did kinda like the whole thing with Lara Croft and her dad and making her an actual character. Sure it went a bit hard on the GRITTY but for me, it wasn't a big deal.

Man.. I would play the shit out of a new Lara Croft game right about now. Ah, well.
The parts with her dad are fine, it's just everything else is that the problem in that Crystal Dynamics never improved on it and got worse with it on each sequel. If you like the games, that's fine but the tone doesn't work for me and many others, and people got tired of it by the second game. I already listed all the other reasons and how there was a quality drop. If a new Tomb Raider ever comes out I want it rebooted more so back to the old school Laura with some of the new school, that just make it a fun over the top third person shooter and platformer. Give Lara back dual wielding willing guns and put more emphasis on the tombs and platforming with some good combat.

Keep in mind everyone, even as a kid I wasn't the biggest fan of the character nor series, but I understood why people enjoyed either version of Lara. Though I do have a personal preference for classic Lara. Or have a series of comics of Lara and Wonder woman dating. That works too.



Aya Brea was always my favorite main leading lady of late 1990s single player video games.
 

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I swear to god, threads like this has been made countless times before. Anyways, here are my list

Overrated: Hades
I can totally see why people love this game. In fact, I love the artstyle, the combat, and experimenting with different weapons. However, I also hate the roguelike elements of the game. It always feels like the game is actively working against you. The boons from the gods are great, but only specific ones become useful. I hate the heat mechanic; If they are gonna make the game harder, at the very least gimme some more boons. Unfortunately, everything you unlock in the bedroom or the training area seems to be it. And again, none of them looked too helpful

Overrated: Witcher 3
I know I praised this game in my witcher trilogy review. And I am willing to die on that hill when it comes to story and characters. But I also think there are many mechanics in this game that fails hard; Terrible level balancing, disappointing final boss, the annoying open-world design and its pointless busyworks, etc. Thankfully there are mods, but this has to be one of the most mod-unfriendliest game I've ever seen. A single update seems to render some mods incompatible. I recent tried to fix and get back into it, but gave up


Over-hated: Dragon Age Inquisition
DA:I seems to be coming up a lot in multiple hated/worst games list. I definitely didn't enjoy it as much as DA:O, but I liked it more than DA2. The story kinda dragged on for longer than necessary, and I hated the mmo-style points-of-interest system in each zone. They were pretty to look at though. Character models looked a tad bit dated back then, and it continues to look dated as the time goes on. The combat was pretty fun. One of my favorite parts about the game is to see returning characters based on my choices in the past games. Alistar looked unrecognizable, and his attitude definitely has been changed. But his dialogs seem to show he still has some of his past self in him. Probably biggest character-change was Teagan in the Trespasser DLC. He was so nice in DA:O, but here he sounds more bureaucratic and bit of an asshole.

Over-hated: Diablo 4
I'll be honest, there are so many things wrong with this game. The Acti-Blizz for-profit design with the season reward, the failure with season 1, shitty class balancing, crappy endgame content, the strange design choice that seem to fix worst of the past games. The list goes on. BBBUUUTTTT I wouldn't deny I enjoyed the story and the demon-slaying aspect. Granted, the storytelling and the characters were as memorable as past games, but I thought it was decent. Killing monsters with different builds are fun, although some builds definitely seem to level-up faster due to the faster clear rate. I feel like I would like the game more if the devs truly makes the game better, but for now it'll sit at the backburner
 
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Phoenixmgs

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That's always been a lame and bull crap excuse. It doesn't increase tension; all it does is increase annoyance. Guess what? You can move and shoot in Evil Within 1 & 2, and there's still plenty of tension. Shadows of the Damned is a bit more action-focused, but there is still tension in the game despite having dark humor and comedic moments.

While Vanquish and gears are heavy action games, they were still tension in either of those games. Especially Vanquish when playing on a harder difficulty.




In your very subjective opinion about Max Payne as a whole. Keep in mind, why I do like MP3, I prefer the first two games. Even if some stuff in the first game has an age well. Both games still control great on mouse and keyboard. Now I'm consoles it's a bit more of a different issue, but I played both of them on pc. I did play the console version of MP2 once though. Wasn't too bad.


I didn't say anything about winning the internet. That's you and your attitude. It's funny how you always project, gas light, and move the goal post. And if you played every shooter under the sun, then you know that's not true. It's your opinion, but I cannot give a rat's ass. I haven't played every shooter under the sun, but I know plenty of had more fun with 3rd person shooters from the 6th and 5th generation, than many of the cover shooters from 7th generation. Even if certain ones have an age well, or don't control as great as modern controls. You can boast all you want, but you clearly don't know everything nor as much as you claim as you do.

Didn't sound like it the way you typed it. I gave you that huge list of titles, and over 120 ain't bad. I don't expect every game to have a de-limbing mechanic, but what I did say was that it doesn't make RE4 that much special anymore. That is true. Not to mention there's a lease 18 over the shoulder games that do that now, so that's plenty at this point if we're just using re4 as a baseline. And like I said before, there are plenty of other games that had it before RE4 even came out. How about next time you do your homework? We're done here.
What does being able to move a step at a time really help much as when you're shooting, you're already super limited in movement? And I think you're forgetting why you couldn't move in RE4 (control specific issue), it was literally the first of it's kind. The control specific issue that RE4 has, everyone would totally hate the remake if it kept it because at the time it was perfectly fine as there was no standard, but now gamers have like 20 years of muscle memory and I doubt anyone can even play the original RE4 today because of it.

I totally hate MP3 across the board, gameplay and story/characters. Raycevick goes over the gameplay issues really well, I can't stand Rockstar controls because they prioritize animations over player inputs. MP1/2 don't have modern TPS controls that RE4 basically invented, that's my point.

It's your attitude, I didn't have an attitude until you did saying I don't know shit. What the fuck do you expect when you tell someone they don't know shit when that's what they grew up playing and played that genre at the highest level possible? If RE4 didn't basically invent modern TPS controls, what game came before RE4 that did? The reason why the MGS games have aged well is because they never actually tried to be a TPS until MGS4, which is still the pinnacle for TPS controls.

Limb specific effects aren't a typical feature in a shooter. Sure most shooters have it programmed so arm/leg damage is less than torso damage and head is obviously the most damage, but that's usually as far as they go.

"Go try playing like any 3rd-person shooter from the PS2/Xbox/GC gen, I don't recall any of them being good at all by today's standards"

I was replying to this particular part. My point is only that there is an older 3rd person shooter that's still fun to play. You also have to do a lot of shooting without lock on.
From a control standpoint if that game came out today, it would be considered archaic. Never said you couldn't have fun with it.

Re: the violence with Uncharted and Tomb Raider- what ever happened to the logic of "because video games?" I'm so confused- like, yeah you kill things in a video game, I don't understand that problem here.
The whole "ludonarrative dissonance" period in gaming where people were both pretentious and "woke" and nobody even understood what the term meant. The term came about because of Bioshock (linked below) and literally has nothing do with (and doesn't even apply to) Uncharted or Tomb Raider.

 

BrawlMan

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What does being able to move a step at a time really help much as when you're shooting, you're already super limited in movement? An
Figure it out. It don't take that much effort.


And I think you're forgetting why you couldn't move in RE4 (control specific issue), it was literally the first of it's kind. The control specific issue that RE4 has, everyone would totally hate the remake if it kept it because at the time it was perfectly fine as there was no standard, but now gamers have like 20 years of muscle memory and I doubt anyone can even play the original RE4 today because of it.
I never forgotten, I just don't care and I don't have the tolerance nor patience for it. Guess what? Standards and opinions change. Which is why I'm glad that Remake exist. It picks all issues I have with you. You can love the original as much as you want, because no one will take it away from you. Not even Capcom. But the whole it's scarier when you can't move has always been bullcrap to me. It's just a delusional argument to be put in favor of why you like the game or trying to excuse flaws that are very apparent and a problem.



I totally hate MP3 across the board, gameplay and story/characters. Raycevick goes over the gameplay issues really well, I can't stand Rockstar controls because they prioritize animations over player inputs. MP1/2 don't have modern TPS controls that RE4 basically invented, that's my point.
You mentioned that more times than any of us cared to count. You can dislike it all you want, I don't care about that. Ray has his points, but I still enjoy the game overall. He's not wrong, but I do prefer the earlier games over 3. MP1&2 still control fine, even without the re4 controls. I'm glad they don't control that way. It's really only the first game that suffers from it. And it's more of a difficulty spike for that game than anything. We all know RE4 invented the over the shoulder perspective. Technically it didn't, but it helped popularize it by a huge margin. As much as a landmark it wasn't gaming, I don't have much love for the original and I will make this point over and over again. So deal with it. I'll take any of the other over the shoulder shooters because most of them don't rely on crappy qtes or they're not stuck in siege tank mode. I'll have him play most of them over the original. That's all I have left to say on a matter, cuz I am never doing a back and forth with you again. Deal with it.
It's your attitude, I didn't have an attitude until you did saying I don't know shit. What the fuck do you expect when you tell someone they don't know shit when that's what they grew up playing and played that genre at the highest level possible? If RE4 didn't basically invent modern TPS controls, what game came before RE4 that did? The reason why the MGS games have aged well is because they never actually tried to be a TPS until MGS4, which is still the pinnacle for TPS controls.
You've always had an attitude. At the time I gave you the benefit of the doubt, but when covid happened you did a lot of gas lighting and making crap up or making excuses or acting like you knew everything. That's why I have your butt on ignore. I generally don't like talking to you. That's not getting into it with the whole thing about Trump and his crazy supporters. You still do it now. You're slightly better here, but not by much. You still add in arguments that have nothing to do with anything. Or just repeat the same crap over and over again without much proof or backup. Sorry to bring that off topic, but it had to be done.
 
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Phoenixmgs

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Figure it out. It don't take that much effort.



I never forgotten, I just don't care and I don't have the tolerance nor patience for it. Guess what? Standards and opinions change. Which is why I'm glad that we make exist. It picks all issues I have with you. You can love the original as much as you want, because no one will take it away from you. Not even Capcom. But the whole it's scarier when you can't move has always been bullcrap to me. It's just a delusional argument to be put in favor of why you like the game or trying to excuse flaws that are very apparent and a problem.




You mentioned that more times than any of us cared to count. You can dislike it all you want, I don't care about that. Ray has his points, but I still enjoy the game overall. He's not wrong, but I do prefer the earlier games over 3. MP1&2 still control fine, even without the re4 controls. I'm glad they don't control that way. It's really only the first game that suffers from it. And it's more of a difficulty spike for that game than anything. We all know RE4 invented the over the shoulder perspective. Technically it didn't, but it helped popularize it by a huge margin. As much as a landmark it wasn't gaming, I don't have much love for the original and I will make this point over and over again. So deal with it. I'll take any of the other over the shoulder shooters because most of them don't rely on crappy qtes or they're not stuck in siege tank mode. I'll have him play most of them over the original. That's all I have left to say on a matter, cuz I am never doing a back and forth with you again. Deal with it.

You've always had an attitude. At the time I gave you the benefit of the doubt, but when covid happened you did a lot of gas lighting and making crap up or making excuses or acting like you knew everything. That's why I have your butt on ignore. I generally don't like talking to you. That's not getting into it with the whole thing about Trump and his crazy supporters. You still do it now. You're slightly better here, but not by much. You still add in arguments that have nothing to do with anything. Or just repeat the same crap over and over again without much proof or backup. Sorry to bring that off topic, but it had to be done.
It's not that big of a deal, never had an issue with it.

The original just needs a single thing changed to be playable by today's standards, very few games from that era can say the same thing.

See this is what always happens, I say such and such, and someone says I'm wrong without demonstrating how/why I'm wrong. I asked for a game that predates RE4 with the same control innovation and you just say "technically it didn't" without even listing the game that predated it. And I'm the one gaslighting people... sure thing dude.

I had zero attitude until you had to throw your attitude around (and I wasn't even replying to you), which you always do. You constantly reply to things saying you disagree, then when you get push back, you're like "I don't care!!!" You never have back and forths, I don't think you know how to have a back and forth.
 

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Btw, I'm not reading your comment Phoenix. That answer on the previous post I gave you is in the Dead Space video for my previous post.
 
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I think its safe to say Baldur's Gate 3 is going full steam ahead into both of these categories.
Really? I thought it was just Old_Hunter_77 throwing up a storm? Who else is? Not counting the bitichy developers and publishers "shocked" at BG3's success.
 

Elvis Starburst

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You've always had an attitude. At the time I gave you the benefit of the doubt, but when covid happened you did a lot of gas lighting and making crap up or making excuses or acting like you knew everything. That's why I have your butt on ignore. I generally don't like talking to you. That's not getting into it with the whole thing about Trump and his crazy supporters. You still do it now. You're slightly better here, but not by much. You still add in arguments that have nothing to do with anything. Or just repeat the same crap over and over again without much proof or backup. Sorry to bring that off topic, but it had to be done.
I had zero attitude until you had to throw your attitude around (and I wasn't even replying to you), which you always do. You constantly reply to things saying you disagree, then when you get push back, you're like "I don't care!!!" You never have back and forths, I don't think you know how to have a back and forth.
At risk of starting shit... You both have an attitude.
BrawlMan brings up things I've seen plenty of from you over the years and has a point, and you playing a ton of shooter games (some at a professional level) isn't a flex that makes you some higher authority of the genre. I'm sure you know a lot more than most people, but dial it back a touch. Gaming is full of subjectivity and is hard to pry apart from objectivity regarding the games we like and dislike.
Meanwhile, you are correct that when BrawlMan gets involved in some discussions and things get to a certain level of push back and/or heat their common response is to loudly declare "I don't care! I'm done with this discussion, I'm not reading anything else you say so don't bother!!" (even to people they're supposed to have on ignore which defeats the purpose of ignoring them) which is, quite frankly, childish.
Self reflect, the both of you.

Now, before anyone tries to give it a go... I'm no perfect bean myself and I admit that. I'm probably more of a shit than I might even be aware of. Just means there's room to improve
 
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At risk of starting shit... You both have an attitude.
BrawlMan brings up things I've seen plenty of from you over the years and has a point, and you playing a ton of shooter games (some at a professional level) isn't a flex that makes you some higher authority of the genre. I'm sure you know a lot more than most people, but dial it back a touch. Gaming is full of subjectivity and is hard to pry apart from objectivity regarding the games we like and dislike.
Meanwhile, you are correct that when BrawlMan gets involved in some discussions and things get to a certain level of push back and/or heat their common response is to loudly declare "I don't care! I'm done with this discussion, I'm not reading anything else you say so don't bother!!" (even to people they're supposed to have on ignore which defeats the purpose of ignoring them) which is, quite frankly, childish.
Self reflect, the both of you.

Now, before anyone tries to give it a go... I'm no perfect bean myself and I admit that. I'm probably more of a shit than I might even be aware of. Just means there's room to improve
Elvis, I appreciate the effort but I already moved on. Thank you and have a good night
 

Elvis Starburst

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Elvis, I appreciate the effort but I already moved on. Thank you and have a good night
I wasn't expect a back and forth debate between either of you, if that was your concern. Just wanted to say my piece with the hope that the both of you look into yourself and consider what I said going forward. Nothing more
 

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Really? I thought it was just Old_Hunter_77 throwing up a storm? Who else is? Not counting the bitichy developers and publishers "shocked" at BG3's success.
There's starting to be some pileup in user reviews, seems like the back half of the game kind of falls off.
 

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Both God of War series; the Greek Era and Norse Era on all sides. Greek Era got over hated at the time among action game "enthusiasts" (snobs who only touched Japanese action games and not much else) and most game critics who claimed the Greek Era GoW is a "button masher". GoW may not be as complex as DMC, Bayonetta, or Ninja Gaiden, but these games do have depth, even though it's meant to ease players in at a casual level. The games are still challenging, and the enemies you fight aren't stupid. The overrated in Greek Era is downplayed, but you had a few fanboys that went overboard in thinking God of War style combat is the only thing that mattered, and other actions needed to be like them to the letter.

Norse GoW gets overrated from the professional critics side for thinking it's style of storytelling and over-the-shoulder gameplay everyone should follow suit, and that no other action game matters or is lesser for not being Norse GoW. While I am happy that people are taking inspirations to make their own action game, not every game is going to be exactly like Norse GoW, nor should all action game take everything from it. I like the games, but they have their own flaws certain clones are either avoiding or just trying something more interesting with the concept. While on the opposite end, those same action game "enthusiasts" who shitted on the Greek Era, now suddenly started loving those games, or be more vocally positive about them when GoW4 first launched, and shitting on Norse like it's the worse thing ever. Several individual YouTubers are guilty of this, and wouldn't shut up about it for a long while. If you hate the games that badly, then stop playing them or talking about them, and show the things you do enjoy. Oh, you can't because it's too difficult or you won't clicks with your bad takes? Fuck you.

I do admit I was on the hate train at the time, before GoW4 released, but stopped myself a few months before the game came out, and realized I would be exactly like the critics I despise for hating on games that are good or I enjoy. Plus, I could see Santa Monica did care for their overall product, even though I thought Kratos being playable again was a bad idea at the time. These are good games, and a nice entry for people who want to get into Stylish Action games. I was glad to be proven wrong. Devil May Cry, Ninja Gaiden, God of War, Bayonetta, No More Heroes, etc. and many other action-brawler games can and are co-existing with each other just fine. We're in a world where DMC5, God of War 5, No More Heroes 3, and Bayonetta 3 exists. Something thought impossible and foolhardy at one point. Amongst that, we have many other new action games or ones that went through revamp such as Hi-Fi Rush, Evil West, Spark the Jester 3, and Oneechanbara Origin. With plenty of new action games on the horizon soon. It's the better to have variety of all types, and not just expect the same thing to be mandatory every single time from either perspective. The genre would end up getting stale, so mixing it up is always important.
 
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Evil Within 2 - the game is love or hate it territory, but I've noticed the game divided the fans up. Most critics like the game, other than Yahtzee, but he hated on it because it was "too serious and not like the last game". Even though he was crapping on the first game a lot too. What makes the first game so special now? It relates to my question, because the people who hate on the second game the most tend to be people who wanted another RE4 or only just want Shinji at the helm.

There's also some reverse xenophobia going on too. Because the director of the second game is not Japanese some of these people are hating on it for the dumbest reasons or feel that there's not enough "edge" in the monster designs, "not Japanese enough", or "too generic and Western". The game does have a more Western design philosophy, but there are still elements of Japanese game design in it. Not to mention most of the team is still comprised of Japanese developers, so what more do you jackasses want? That one's a rhetorical question so don't answer it. The small open world actually works and you don't have to do them if you don't want to. It's recommended you do so you get more story and character beats that develop, and you get additional resources and new weapons. This game has the best design elements of classic Resident Evil & Resident Evil 4. With a nice bit of Silent Hill thrown into the mix. I swear these people hating on a game didn't want to like it in the first place and find any excuse or exaggerate flaws to just favor the first game for the shallows of reasons. I like the first game, but it was janky and buggy at launch. The game can still crash even on PS5 apparently, and even Shinji didn't like what he did with the final product. Bethesda just wanted another RE4 and was hoping for lightning the strike twice.

@hanselthecaretaker2, I don't know if or when you will get to the game, but don't ever listen to people like Yahtzee or Perez. Especially the latter. Dude comes off as a straight-up creator hater. It only got worse when HiFi Rush came out, and he hated on the new same director even more so than the last game.

 
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Elvis Starburst

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Aya Brea was always my favorite main leading lady of late 1990s single player video games.
I realized I forgot to ask about this last week... I was curious as to your reasoning for this, as I've seen a lot of other people say something similar. I find it a little odd cause she seemed like a bit of a plank of wood in the first game with the playthrough I watched, but it's possible she got more interesting in the 2nd game and I'm just unaware. I only know her from The 3rd Birthday myself, and many would say that that game doesn't really "count".
Would love to hear your perspective on Aya
 
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I realized I forgot to ask about this last week... I was curious as to your reasoning for this, as I've seen a lot of other people say something similar. I find it a little odd cause she seemed like a bit of a plank of wood in the first game with the playthrough I watched, but it's possible she got more interesting in the 2nd game and I'm just unaware. I only know her from The 3rd Birthday myself, and many would say that that game doesn't really "count".
Would love to hear your perspective on Aya
The 3rd birthday doesn't count, because you're not playing as Aya. She's been dead the entire time, and you're playing as the third Eve. They swapped bodies.

Aya Brea was, unique for the time, and still is now. In the first game, she was a young early 20-something woman who was still getting things together despite knowing herself enough at the time. Unlike Lara Croft, Aya did show fear and concerns. One one of those justified fears being that she will outlive her friends due to the cells in her body. She ages at a much slower rate, because it her cells/mitochondria don't want her dying. They want her alive as much as possible. She wasn't cocky 24/7. Not to say Lara didn't have her serious moments, but she was just a straight-up caricature of Indiana Jones. Aya is a much more serious character, but she wasn't a blank of wood or a wet blanket. She did give an attitude or throw a snappy remark every now and then when it was deserved on somebody.

Throughout the first game you see her humanity and you see at least what part of her past was like. Despite her rough past, losing a twin sister and a mom, overall she's a kind and caring person but is not afraid to get tough. Plus with some of the characters around her, it helps even it out. Especially her cop partner Danny. He literally looks like Roger from Lethal Weapon.

Contrasted to the main villain, Eve. Who is more terrifying than Sephiroth could ever be. Here's somebody who didn't have anything bad happen to them, and is only as a cell that got a mind of her own. Eve is selfish, rude, arrogant, looks down on humanity as a whole, and sees mitochondria as the next step in evolution. Not to mention the crazy lady can and would often turn people into burning mulch, orange goo, or some type of horrifying monster. That includes animals too. She sees them only as resources and tools barely above humans. I know I'm kind of speeding through this, but I can't think of everything off the top of my head right now. This video should help even things out as well.

 
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