A Pro-Trump Militant Group Has Recruited Thousands of Police, Soldiers, and Veterans

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lil devils x

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I wouldn't worry too much about them becoming like the Zetas. The Zetas basically rode off with all their gear and were specifically trained to counter-act Cartels, which meant they were also intimately familiar with Cartel business. The Zetas thrived because of the insane corruption in Mexico meant they could basically switch the entire organization from law enforcement to criminal cartel while keeping their chain of command intact and all of the gear the state had given them. On top of that they could bribe law enforcement to not intervene when they cleaned house with other cartels (and this was in fact seen as something positive in several law enforcement circles initially, as it was thought that stability in the drug trade would reduce the killings, which obviously didn't happen). That won't happen with these militant groups in the US.

Do you know what a former soldier with a rifle is? A civilian with a rifle. Doesn't matter how much they were trained to be a former special forces operator (and I can almost guarantee that most of the people who claim to be former SF are not), without all the support assets of an actual military force they are just a bunch of irregulars that can't pose a serious threat to a modern military. To be an effective fighting force you need more then just some dudes with weapon training and auto fire converted AR-15s. You need logistics, communication, effective chain of command and if you want to be a modern fighting force you need a whole lot of specialized equipment that a civilian, no matter how eager and willing, can get (encrypted military radios, MRAPs/IFVs, armed drones, mortars, artillery tubes, anti armor weapons, attack helicopters etc.). Unless these guys can somehow get at least one full US Army or Marine division to turn on the USA and bring all its equipment along, they will get absolutely nowhere in an attempt to face down the US military in an insurgency or revolution.

We should be wary of them because they can make for terrifying domestic terrorists if let loose. But they pose absolutely no danger as an actual fighting force that could conceivably occupy any significant portion of the USA for any lengthy amount of time.
One of the Zetas leaders grew up here in my cousins neighborhood in the US, his family still lives here down the street from my grandmothers house and he calls this home. That is also the same area responsible for the majority of the illegal weapons in the US, including military grade equipment. The Zetas also had pretty heavy operations in this area and ran my brother out of one of his apartments. They bribed law enforcement here in the US as well as recruited US military from this area. The US has documented this actual training of Zetas by US and Israeli's special forces, it isn't a matter of claiming it, it was documented to be fact according to US intelligence and what they were able to accomplish here is why US had them classified as " the most technologically advanced threat to the US" and used that as the reason to go after them like they did.

It is not illegal for civilians to own military grade equipment in the US, you just need to buy a federal destructive device permit and those are not that expensive. You can even own tanks here. Private helicopters are not uncommon where I live in Texas, either. There are plenty of private airports here scattered about in rural areas.

A tank in the U.S. can have operational guns, if the owner has a federal Destructive Device permit, and state laws don't prohibit it
.

Armed aircraft are only illegal to fly while armed. People here actually know how to make their own armed drones. ALSO, here in Texas we have military armories all over the place. They have more of them, and were stocked more than they used to be due to needing to be prepared for terrorists attacks anywhere now post 9/11.
They would just need enough people to take out this poorly guarded armories, which they have more than enough. These guys being based in Texas gives them access to a whole lot that people wouldn't think they would have access to. All you need to is to have a license to make explosives here, my friends uncle had one where he could make just about anything and he worked for the Police department. This group is made up of people who are most likely to qualify for these types of licenses and permits to begin with.
 
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Dalisclock

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If you form an armed mob and hang out at the polls all day to intimidate those who dont vote the way you do, you're a coward and a piece of shit.
Luckily mail voting bypasses that shit. Why do you think Trump keeps trying to discredit it(I mean, other then his people and himself, then it's A-OK!)?
 

happyninja42

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Counterpoint: I found a supercut of him denouncing white supremacy ~20 times:


But this probably won't change anybody's opinion.
You're right, it doesn't. Because 1. Him saying it doesn't mean he actually believes it. 2. He's been knowing to fucking lie on just about everything under the sun, so why should we assume he's being honest with this statement?
 

Houseman

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You're right, it doesn't. Because 1. Him saying it doesn't mean he actually believes it. 2. He's been knowing to fucking lie on just about everything under the sun, so why should we assume he's being honest with this statement?
If he would have explicitly endorsed white supremacy, would you say "oh, he's just lying again", or would you go "AHA! SEE! I KNEW IT!"?
Unless you choose the former, then you are guilty of a double standard.

If his words don't mean anything, then his words don't mean anything. Him endorsing, refusing to endorse, denouncing, or refusing to denounce must be equally worthless.
 
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ObsidianJones

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You're right, it doesn't. Because 1. Him saying it doesn't mean he actually believes it. 2. He's been knowing to fucking lie on just about everything under the sun, so why should we assume he's being honest with this statement?
Piggying Back off of this sentiment. Things that he's outwardly lied about.

-Covid and its severity.

... I was going to actually make a list and add references, but this actually does a great job.


Point of order, How do you trust a habitual liar that he's telling the truth this time? "Chicken Little" and "The Boy who cried wolf" are cautionary tales for a reason. If no one trusts you... no one will believe you. Even if you're honest at one time.
 
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happyninja42

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If he would have explicitly endorsed white supremacy, would you say "oh, he's just lying again", or would you go "AHA! SEE! I KNEW IT!"?
Unless you choose the former, then you are guilty of a double standard.

If his words don't mean anything, then his words don't mean anything. Him endorsing, refusing to endorse, denouncing, or refusing to denounce must be equally worthless.
To me, his words DON'T mean anything. I fully expect him to bullshit his way through any statement he gives. At this point everything he says is suspect, so I go by what he actually does. And nothing he DOES leads me to trust him at all.
 
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SupahEwok

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One of the Zetas leaders grew up here in my cousins neighborhood in the US, his family still lives here down the street from my grandmothers house and he calls this home. That is also the same area responsible for the majority of the illegal weapons in the US, including military grade equipment. The Zetas also had pretty heavy operations in this area and ran my brother out of one of his apartments. They bribed law enforcement here in the US as well as recruited US military from this area. The US has documented this actual training of Zetas by US and Israeli's special forces, it isn't a matter of claiming it, it was documented to be fact according to US intelligence and what they were able to accomplish here is why US had them classified as " the most technologically advanced threat to the US" and used that as the reason to go after them like they did.

It is not illegal for civilians to own military grade equipment in the US, you just need to buy a federal destructive device permit and those are not that expensive. You can even own tanks here. Private helicopters are not uncommon where I live in Texas, either. There are plenty of private airports here scattered about in rural areas.

A tank in the U.S. can have operational guns, if the owner has a federal Destructive Device permit, and state laws don't prohibit it
.

Armed aircraft are only illegal to fly while armed. People here actually know how to make their own armed drones. ALSO, here in Texas we have military armories all over the place. They have more of them, and were stocked more than they used to be due to needing to be prepared for terrorists attacks anywhere now post 9/11.
They would just need enough people to take out this poorly guarded armories, which they have more than enough. These guys being based in Texas gives them access to a whole lot that people wouldn't think they would have access to. All you need to is to have a license to make explosives here, my friends uncle had one where he could make just about anything and he worked for the Police department. This group is made up of people who are most likely to qualify for these types of licenses and permits to begin with.
I'm going to rain on this parade a little:

A) just because they can own a tank doesn't mean they can afford to equip and field an armored division, much less even enough to fill a road.

B) just because they could conquer an armory in a surprise attack doesn't mean they'd know how to use anything in it besides rifles.

C) just because they can slap a gun on a civilian available drone doesn't mean they can actually use it effectively (frankly the best thing you could do to attack someone with a drone is to strap it with explosives and "suicide" bomb with it; automatic fire from anything with sufficient caliber to be military applicable is going to knock the drone out of the sky just from recoil without some very clever mechanical, aeronautical, and software engineering)

D) just because there's a lot of groups doesn't mean they can coordinate for shit beyond basic mob tactics of "go that way and cause trouble". You're certainly not going to get a nationally coordinated uprising, which is the bare minimum for a true coup, and I find it incredibly doubtful that even a state-level conspiracy could fly
 
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BrawlMan

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Counterpoint: I found a supercut of him denouncing white supremacy ~20 times:


But this probably won't change anybody's opinion.
He's been lying his ass off for years. Not my fault you refuse to see the truth. Don't bother responding back.
 

Baffle

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There's, very literally, hundreds of people employed just to ensure that one attack helicopter or fighter jet can function as the disgustingly effective weapon it is. It requires people with highly specialized skill sets (aircraft technicians, radar operators, intelligence analysts, pilots, munitions specialists etc.) using highly specialized tools
Well, akshually:


Edit: I should clarify that I have no idea how to fix a bike, a board, a car, or a Type 4X9D Destroyer, and as such am ill-equipped to be a domestic terrorist.
 
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SupahEwok

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I am aware of that. I am also keenly aware that there's a massive difference between a $35M AH-64 and jury-rigging a pair of machine guns to a Bell Jet Ranger. There's also a massive difference between a vintage M4 Sherman or M48 Patton (or even a vintage first generation M1 Abrams if you can somehow get a hold of one) and a military grade M1A2 Abrams with modern upgrade kits.

What needs to be understood in these discussion is that owning a military grade vehicle is legal, but you won't be able to get a hold of one that's in contemporary use by the US military. And even if you could get a hold of a state of the art AH-64 attack helicopter a civilian would never be able to attain all the support structures needed to effectively use one. There's, very literally, hundreds of people employed just to ensure that one attack helicopter or fighter jet can function as the disgustingly effective weapon it is. It requires people with highly specialized skill sets (aircraft technicians, radar operators, intelligence analysts, pilots, munitions specialists etc.) using highly specialized tools to ensure that an AH-64 isn't just a cool aircraft hovering around but a weapon so potent that it rivals, or even exceeds, an armored battalion from WW2 in destructive capability.

The Army of Iraq, as pitiful as it was, was much, much better equipped then any militant group in the US can realistically hope to be and it got absolutely massacred two times over by the US military. If the US military wants to have you dead and you are stupid enough to engage in open combat you are very, very dead. The best a militant group like the one in your OP can hope to do is to engage in domestic terrorism in order to destabilize the US over a long period of time. Because if sovereign states using large amounts of military hardware they are proficient with can't even put up a fight against the US military, you can bet that some police officers, veterans and preppers with too much gusto and not enough brains don't stand a chance.
Now to be on the converse side: what you have said is 100% true, but not 100% accurate. It is completely true that an insurgency solely helmed by militia will get steamrolled by the modern military. But it's not accurate that that means they have no military applicability. The real threat, which I haven't seen anybody bring up, is if a portion of the military itself throws in with the militia. In such a scenario, the militia fulfills the role you describe, as terrorist irregulars, disrupting loyalist infrastructure and population centers, in support of military operations.

And in this light, I agree that i don't see a civil war. An insurrection or uprising, maybe. But not a successful one. Because I don't see the military falling in behind Trump in the case of a lost election. And there wouldn't be a need to in a won election. However, if Trump wins through demonstrable fraud, it's anybody's guess what will happen. It'll be a matter of who's in charge of the base closest to DC. I think that it would trend towards whatever is "legal" rather than whatever is "legitimate."
 

lil devils x

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I'm going to rain on this parade a little:

A) just because they can own a tank doesn't mean they can afford to equip and field an armored division, much less even enough to fill a road.

B) just because they could conquer an armory in a surprise attack doesn't mean they'd know how to use anything in it besides rifles.

C) just because they can slap a gun on a civilian available drone doesn't mean they can actually use it effectively (frankly the best thing you could do to attack someone with a drone is to strap it with explosives and "suicide" bomb with it; recoil from automatic fire from anything with sufficient caliber to be military applicable is going to knock the drone out of the sky just from recoil without some very clever mechanical, aeronautical, and software engineering)

D) just because there's a lot of groups doesn't mean they can coordinate for shit beyond basic mob tactics of "go that way and cause trouble". You're certainly not going to get a nationally coordinated uprising, which is the bare minimum for a true coup, and I find it incredibly doubtful that even a state-level conspiracy could fly
A) We are talking about a group of 25,000+ people backed by wealthy ranchers ect in Texas. They can afford it.
B) Did you read the article, they are US specials forces and veterans. They know how to use it.
C) They ARE US special forces, police and military. We aren't talking about untrained civilians here. I even knew people who could make military grade weapons who worked for the police department growing up, it may surprise you what they can do here.
D)Due to their backgrounds, they very well do have logistics, Zetas did as well...