Militia Plot to Kidnap Michigan Governor and Overthrow Government

[lil devils x]

On the topic at hand, I really wish I was surprised by this, but given how right wing media tries to keep their audience in a constant froth of outrage over even the most sensible things that Democrats do regardless of the merits or political persuasion, as well as Republicans active attempt to dismantle counter-right-wing domestic terrorism investigations for over a decade, this is just the inevitable result.

bu.. bu.. ANTIFA THREW FIREWORKS AND BRICKS!! GET THOSE TERRORISTS!! .. Seriously. It is beyond that absurd at this point.

Former FBI Agent Says Agency Is "Hamstrung" by Trump in Investigating White Supremacist Movements

"There’s some reluctance among agents to bring forth an investigation that targets what the president perceives as his base."

www.gq.com

FBI raises neo-Nazi threat level to same as Isis

Director Christopher Wray says far-right and racially motivated terror attacks are 'national threat priority'

www.independent.co.uk

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-cut-resources-fight-white-supremacy-domestic-terrorism-2019-8

DHS draft document: White supremacists are greatest terror threat

The documents are slightly different drafts of the same annual threat assessment, which is not yet published.

www.politico.com

White supremacists and militias have infiltrated police across US, report says

A former FBI agent has documented links between serving officers and racist militant activities in more than a dozen states

www.theguardian.com

Opinion | Enemies foreign and domestic: Inside the U.S. military's white supremacy problem

The armed forces offers much to its members. But what happens when some in the ranks betray their oath?

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Cheetodust]

The right has all these armed militia nutjobs, are you saying the answer is to get our own? I am not seeing that you are offering an answer here at all.

I mean, yeah if needed because right now the only plan liberals have is to "win the election but by, like, a lot you guys then they definitely can't contest it." I mean even liberals have no faith in the rules of representative democracy.

It isn't " by the bootstraps" If we get enough people, we can choose who we elevate. It is a matter of having the support, not that you can do it yourself. You can't get ANYTHING done alone. There are no bootstraps in the world that will get that done. AOC didn't come from wealth either, but she has been able to get her name in the news every week as well.

Getting people to unite and stop bickering to get anything actually done though is the biggest obstacle however, because the wealthy have the wealth, power and organization to do that and it takes a lot more effort for anyone else to get enough people to combat them without endless feuding. Hell, we can't even get progressives on this site to stop bickering over stupid things, how can we unite them to actually accomplish real goals?

A) pulling yourself up by your bootstrap is a myth. That was my point, the Biden's of the world are used to show that "hey, don't disrupt the capitalist system, someday you can rise above. Just look at these guys." One or two are always going to get through but as the pool of available capital gets smaller and smaller (because it's all in a swimming pool under Jeff Bezos' island resort where he hunts people, or whatever billionaires do to spend even a little of that money they could never get through in several life times). The system doesn't make it so nobody can get rich but it's built entirely on the vast majority providing their labour for far less than it returns to the person paying the wages. That was the point, of course some in the political class came from "humble" beginnings but they didn't then becomes millionaires by helping common people and they've held onto their political power by serving the interests of capital.

Like Silicon Valley billionaires don't support Democrats because they think they'll actually do anything to shift any wealth from the top to the bottom. You have to know that right? Like people whose sole purpose in life is to horde as much as they can so they can get the capitalism high score would never actually support anyone who they believed would increase their taxes.

B) We can choose who we elevate? Bullshit. Here in Ireland the party that got the most votes by a wide margin is currently sitting in opposition because 3 less popular parties refused to enter discussions with them. Trump is in office because of the electoral college despite losing the popular vote. Shit didn't I see someone in these forums (might have been somewhere else) point out that in a previous election dems got like 48% of the votes in a state but only took like 3 of 14 seats because of gerrymandering. The brexiteers spent that entire referendum saying that if they lost by a narrow margin like 2% it wouldn't be over and they'd push for another vote. Only to win by 2% and then call pushing for another referendum undemocratic. You're going to get another Conservative supreme court judge. That's the reality because the people in charge decided that's how it works this time. When it didn't suit them then it worked the opposite way. And no voting is going to change that. Relying on electorate politics is just relying on people with power not to use that power to ensure their power can't be taken from them.

 

[lil devils x]

So... these people were arrested before doing anything. That's the inevitable result of dismantling counter-terrorism efforts?

No according to the FBI, the sheer AMOUNT of it happening is the result of dismantling their efforts to address far right extremists. They specifically named Trump as the reason.

 

[Chimpzy]

Cheesh, this whole modern American definition of liberal vs the classical definition of liberal (i.e. the rest of the world's definition) fight sure is something.

Anyway, on topic, I'm with Tireseas. I'm actually surprised there haven't been any outright assassination attempts yet. But you know, still 4 weeks left.

 

[lil devils x]

I mean, yeah if needed because right now the only plan liberals have is to "win the election but by, like, a lot you guys then they definitely can't contest it." I mean even liberals have no faith in the rules of representative democracy.
A) pulling yourself up by your bootstrap is a myth. That was my point, the Biden's of the world are used to show that "hey, don't disrupt the capitalist system, someday you can rise above. Just look at these guys." One or two are always going to get through but as the pool of available capital gets smaller and smaller (because it's all in a swimming pool under Jeff Bezos' island resort where he hunts people, or whatever billionaires do to spend even a little of that money they could never get through in several life times). The system doesn't make it so nobody can get rich but it's built entirely on the vast majority providing their labour for far less than it returns to the person paying the wages. That was the point, of course some in the political class came from "humble" beginnings but they didn't then becomes millionaires by helping common people and they've held onto their political power by serving the interests of capital.

Like Silicon Valley billionaires don't support Democrats because they think they'll actually do anything to shift any wealth from the top to the bottom. You have to know that right? Like people whose sole purpose in life is to horde as much as they can so they can get the capitalism high score would never actually support anyone who they believed would increase their taxes.

B) We can choose who we elevate? Bullshit. Here in Ireland the party that got the most votes by a wide margin is currently sitting in opposition because 3 less popular parties refused to enter discussions with them. Trump is in office because of the electoral college despite losing the popular vote. Shit didn't I see someone in these forums (might have been somewhere else) point out that in a previous election dems got like 48% of the votes in a state but only took like 3 of 14 seats because of gerrymandering. The brexiteers spent that entire referendum saying that if they lost by a narrow margin like 2% it wouldn't be over and they'd push for another vote. Only to win by 2% and then call pushing for another referendum undemocratic. You're going to get another Conservative supreme court judge. That's the reality because the people in charge decided that's how it works this time. When it didn't suit them then it worked the opposite way. And no voting is going to change that. Relying on electorate politics is just relying on people with power not to use that power to ensure their power can't be taken from them.

You do realize that you are not going to actually GET gun control activists to take up arms right? If they fight them in the streets= the right wing militias made up of US military and police actually win here and everything ONLY gets worse for everyone else.

 

[tstorm823]

No according to the FBI, the sheer AMOUNT of it happening is the result of dismantling their efforts to address far right extremists. They specifically named Trump as the reason.

You don't imagine that people like this might be getting pushed to extremism by... ya know... the people who want to burn the country to the ground?

 

[lil devils x]

Cheesh, this whole modern American definition of liberal vs the classical definition of liberal (i.e. the rest of the world's definition) fight sure is something.

Anyway, on topic, I'm with Tireseas. I'm actually surprised there haven't been any outright assassination attempts yet. But you know, still 4 weeks left.

I am actually worried about either on the election, right before or in the months in between November and January the most. The sheer amount of Military and police members involved in these Militias though is worrisome.

 

[Cheetodust]

You do realize that you are not going to actually GET gun control activists to take up arms right? If they fight them in the streets= the right wing militias made up of militias and police actually win here and everything ONLY gets worse for everyone else.

Okay. I hope another Supreme court justice doesn't die during trump's next term.

 

[lil devils x]

You don't imagine that people like this might be getting pushed to extremism by... ya know... the people who want to burn the country to the ground?

Trump and his supporters ARE who is trying to burn the country to the ground here. The people trying to take care of the people are not.

 

[lil devils x]

Okay. I hope another Supreme court justice doesn't die during trump's next term.

Trump only gets a second term if progressives can't manage to unite against him. If that happens, yea, we are screwed because the truth is the right is heavily armed, heavily trained by US military and the left is pro gun control, so you do the math.

 

[tstorm823]

Trump and his supporters ARE who is trying to burn the country to the ground here. The people trying to take care of the people are not.

Do we need to do a head count here of users who think America shouldn't exist?

 

[lil devils x]

Do we need to do a head count here of users who think America shouldn't exist?

This is a gaming forum. Care to count the numbers on say a educators forum? Science forum? What else do you expect from the gaming community?

 

[Cheetodust]

You don't imagine that people like this might be getting pushed to extremism by... ya know... the people who want to burn the country to the ground?

No they were driven to it by rightwing media creating the antifa bogeyman and convincing them that they want to burn down the country. Just like I don't believe those nice boys were pushed into chanting "Jews will not replace us" while waving torches by pesky leftists.

 

[Cheetodust]

Do we need to do a head count here of users who think America shouldn't exist?

Did the American revolutionaroes believe in burning America to the ground or did they just believe a better version of it should exist? Shouldn't exist in its current form and shouldn't exist are different things.

 

[Seanchaidh]

You don't imagine that people like this might be getting pushed to extremism by... ya know... the people who want to burn the country to the ground?

Given that they kidnapped the governor and whined about mask mandates and not being able to go to the gym, I'm going to go with no.

 

[tstorm823]

This is a gaming forum. Care to count the numbers on say a educators forum? Science forum? What else do you expect from the gaming community?

If you care instead to do the head counts at the various "protests" we've been witnessing, I'm perfectly willing to change venues.

Like, I'm a Republican and you're a Democrat, and in the genuinely meaningful ways we are ideologically very close. We are much more similar to one another than you are to the communists or I am to these wackos. You have to understand that there are people who want to burn down the country and replace it with their communist utopia, and when that's allowed to be normalized, you get reactance the opposite way. The literal Nazis did not rise to power in a vacuum, they rose to power in opposition to a prominent communist movement of the time in Germany, a communist movement that would later found Antifaschistische Aktion, or Antifa for short. This is the legacy that people are trying to repeat. They're literally imitating pre-Nazi Germany. We know where that leads. Extremism on one side begets extremism on the other. Right wing extremists aren't popping out of moderate Republican rhetoric, they're appearing as a counter to the people rioting in the streets and setting things on fire.

By no means do I want you to condemn people like this any less, but I need people like you to stop giving harbor to communists for opposing Trump. You spend hours on here arguing with exactly the people that I'm talking about, but when it becomes partisan you flip back to "Trump is the bad guy, everyone else is trying to help people". No, that's not the state of the world. There are bad people on both sides.

 

[Cheetodust]

Given that they kidnapped the governor and whined about mask mandates and not being able to go to the gym, I'm going to go with no.

Look if this isn't because of the left then who can be to blame? There's literally no such thing as a bad Conservative

 

[stroopwafel]

A) pulling yourself up by your bootstrap is a myth. That was my point, the Biden's of the world are used to show that "hey, don't disrupt the capitalist system, someday you can rise above. Just look at these guys." One or two are always going to get through but as the pool of available capital gets smaller and smaller (because it's all in a swimming pool under Jeff Bezos' island resort where he hunts people, or whatever billionaires do to spend even a little of that money they could never get through in several life times).

Not really. Bezos created value with Amazon he did not usurp that money. It's value for millions of people that wasn't there before. Most of his personal shares he also seems to invest in Blue Horizon with one ambition being off-planet heavy industry and sustainable energy. If you see where he started in the 90s to where he is now it's nothing but an unbelievable accomplishment. A true visionary genius.

 

[lil devils x]

If you care instead to do the head counts at the various "protests" we've been witnessing, I'm perfectly willing to change venues.

Like, I'm a Republican and you're a Democrat, and in the genuinely meaningful ways we are ideologically very close. We are much more similar to one another than you are to the communists or I am to these wackos. You have to understand that there are people who want to burn down the country and replace it with their communist utopia, and when that's allowed to be normalized, you get reactance the opposite way. The literal Nazis did not rise to power in a vacuum, they rose to power in opposition to a prominent communist movement of the time in Germany, a communist movement that would later found Antifaschistische Aktion, or Antifa for short. This is the legacy that people are trying to repeat. They're literally imitating pre-Nazi Germany. We know where that leads. Extremism on one side begets extremism on the other. Right wing extremists aren't popping out of moderate Republican rhetoric, they're appearing as a counter to the people rioting in the streets and setting things on fire.

By no means do I want you to condemn people like this any less, but I need people like you to stop giving harbor to communists for opposing Trump. You spend hours on here arguing with exactly the people that I'm talking about, but when it becomes partisan you flip back to "Trump is the bad guy, everyone else is trying to help people". No, that's not the state of the world. There are bad people on both sides.

I am not even a democrat. LOL

DO you now have " alternative facts" on the Nazi's rise to power?. WOW. There is NOTHING MODERATE about Current Republican Rhetoric. How you got your head this twisted.. I don't even. None of what you stated is even remotely accurate here. Where are you learning this nonsense from?

Circumstances in Germany - Nazi rise to power - National 5 History Revision - BBC Bitesize

How did the Nazis come to power in Germany in 1933? In National 5 History explore the events that led to the rise of Hitler and the Nazi Party.

www.bbc.co.uk

The True Story of the Reichstag Fire and the Nazi Rise to Power

When the German parliamentary building went up in flames, Hitler harnessed the incident to seize power

www.smithsonianmag.com

How Did Adolf Hitler Happen?

Adolf Hitler was appointed chancellor of Germany in 1933 following a series of electoral victories by the Nazi Party. He ruled absolutely until his death by suicide in April 1945.

www.nationalww2museum.org

 

[Cheetodust]

If you care instead to do the head counts at the various "protests" we've been witnessing, I'm perfectly willing to change venues.

Like, I'm a Republican and you're a Democrat, and in the genuinely meaningful ways we are ideologically very close. We are much more similar to one another than you are to the communists or I am to these wackos. You have to understand that there are people who want to burn down the country and replace it with their communist utopia, and when that's allowed to be normalized, you get reactance the opposite way. The literal Nazis did not rise to power in a vacuum, they rose to power in opposition to a prominent communist movement of the time in Germany, a communist movement that would later found Antifaschistische Aktion, or Antifa for short. This is the legacy that people are trying to repeat. They're literally imitating pre-Nazi Germany. We know where that leads. Extremism on one side begets extremism on the other. Right wing extremists aren't popping out of moderate Republican rhetoric, they're appearing as a counter to the people rioting in the streets and setting things on fire.

By no means do I want you to condemn people like this any less, but I need people like you to stop giving harbor to communists for opposing Trump. You spend hours on here arguing with exactly the people that I'm talking about, but when it becomes partisan you flip back to "Trump is the bad guy, everyone else is trying to help people". No, that's not the state of the world. There are bad people on both sides.

Well that's certainly an interpretation of things.

Not really. Bezos created value with Amazon he did not usurp that money. It's value for millions of people that wasn't there before. Most of his personal shares he also seems to invest in Blue Horizon with one ambition being off-planet heavy industry and sustainable energy. If you see where he started in the 90s to where he is now it's nothing but an unbelievable accomplishment. A true visionary genius.

Well that's certainly an interpretation of things.