Bolivia's Jenine Áñez finally allows election effectively at gunpoint, loses and is going to jail

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I'm seeing people "standing up" for lack of a better word to Morales, and people denouncing him.

What's the deal really with Morales?
He set-up a constitutional court, and used it twice to circumvent the constitution and run for re-election as president. He was deposed in a military coup when he won his fourth consecutive term in office, and fled to Mexico. The coup failed because it had little popular support, since the party of Morales (and himself) were very popular. The coup leaders were responsible for crackdowns on protestors and later killings of protestors.
 

SupahEwok

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Oh, yeah, he totally should have changed his behavior because a bunch of fascists who are trying to do the same thing again even now had the help of OAS to manufacture a fraudulent election malfeasance narrative and oust him with the help of military and police.
If the OAS really was trying to rig the election, they wouldn't have left as blindingly obvious of a "mistake" as they were eventually caught with in their data analysis.
 

Seanchaidh

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If the OAS really was trying to rig the election, they wouldn't have left as blindingly obvious of a "mistake" as they were eventually caught with in their data analysis.
If they weren't trying to rig the election, they wouldn't still deny they made that mistake.
 
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Silvanus

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I'm seeing people "standing up" for lack of a better word to Morales, and people denouncing him.

What's the deal really with Morales?
In short, Evo Morales is a socialist politician who acted as President of Bolivia from 2006 to 2019. He was pretty successful, overseeing quite consistent economic growth at the same time as a reduction in income inequality. He's also the first ruler of Bolivia to come from the indigenous population since the pre-colonial era.

In 2009, he introduced a new constitution (following a successful referendum on it), which you can read here (in English). It includes limiting Presidential runs to 2 consecutive terms.

Then, in 2016, he ran another referendum, aiming to amend the constitution to allow further runs. This referendum returned a "no", 51.3% to 48.7%. However, he instead turned to the Plurinational Constitutional Court and requested that they amend the constitution to abolish term limits instead (for background, the members of the PCC are popularly elected in Bolivia, and it's the highest court in the nation). The court abolished term limits, on the basis that refusing to allow someone to run in the election is a breach of the American Convention on Human Rights.

That brings us to 2019, when Morales ran again for a third consecutive term, and won 47% - 36% (36% being the closest runner-up, a Centrist party). The OAS claimed there were irregularities in the vote count. Cue a coup d'etat by sections of the Bolivian police & military (and supported by the US), and the installation of Jeanine Anez (from a small right-wing party, notably not from the winning party or the runners up) as President. Anez oversaw a violent crackdown on protestors and journalists in Brazil.

It subsequently turned out that the OAS audit of the vote (that had concluded there were irregularities) was seriously flawed. Then finally in 2020 Anez allowed an election to take place, the result was an overwhelming victory for MAS (Morales' party). Morales will be returning to Bolivia, but won't be taking over as President again.
 

Silvanus

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You're mistaken, I didn't quote the constitution but the document the special court for the constitution used to rule in favor of allowing Morales to run again. A ruling which was a FARCE, and I had been trying to explain this to you for YEARS.
Right, so you were referring to the American Convention on Human Rights?

The same response applies. My argument doesn't rest on the ACHR being correct in all things. My opinion on its provisions is completely irrelevant to this specific dispute. You can't just say something's illegal because you don't like the law, or because the law happens to be in the same document as some other bollocks.

!
The Bolivian people voted against a fourth consequtive term for Morales, and he ignored it.
And then later, by a much larger margin, they voted for a fourth consecutive term for Morales.

You know what they never voted for at all, by any margin? Jeanine Anez!
 

SupahEwok

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If they weren't trying to rig the election, they wouldn't still deny they made that mistake.
Right, cuz noone's ever tried to deny making a colossal fuck-up to save their own ass, in the history of ever...
 

Seanchaidh

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Right, cuz noone's ever tried to deny making a colossal fuck-up to save their own ass, in the history of ever...
This isn't what you say when you're not trying to rig an election.


At the same time, though less significant, an article/editorial in the NYT has also to some extent ventured down the road of denying that fraud occurred in the October 2019 elections in Bolivia. Once again, the intention of this press release is not to enter in a political discussion with the NYT team, but it is necessary to put this disinformation campaign in context. The NYT has a well-documented controversial history with truth in relation to dictatorships and totalitarianism. For example, in 1931 the NYT correspondent in the Soviet Union, Walter Duranty, failed to identify and report the starvation of millions of Ukrainians caused by Stalin's totalitarian regime. The NYT correspondent’s representations were ultimately more a defense of Stalin than of the truth. It could be argued that it was “another” NYT, even so, the Pulitzer Prize that Duranty won for this work on the Soviet Union has not been revoked by the Pulitzer Board nor rejected by the “current” NYT.

For some unacceptable and incomprehensible reason, the NYT also failed to report on its front pages the evidence of the genocide in the Holocaust and the Nazi concentration camps in the latter years of World War II. The NYT’s publishing criteria are guided not by truthfulness and objectivity, but by political convenience. In this Hemisphere, in 1957, its correspondent Herbert Matthews was instrumental in building a pro-Castro narrative that Fidel Castro himself mocked and benefited from in his process of totalitarian destruction. None of this has been reviewed by the current NYT. Today, it intends to deny the Bolivian People the possibility of electing a new president that is not Evo Morales in a new election.

Obviously, we recognize the NYT’s right to lie, distort, and twist information, data, and facts, and to mix truth and lies as often as it wishes; recognizing that those rights are inalienable and essential to the exercise of freedom of the press and free speech, and we will certainly do whatever is necessary at all times to ensure the exercise of those rights. For the General Secretariat’s part, we will exercise with prudence our only right, which is to tell the truth and present the facts as they are.
 

Samtemdo8

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In short, Evo Morales is a socialist politician who acted as President of Bolivia from 2006 to 2019. He was pretty successful, overseeing quite consistent economic growth at the same time as a reduction in income inequality. He's also the first ruler of Bolivia to come from the indigenous population since the pre-colonial era.

In 2009, he introduced a new constitution (following a successful referendum on it), which you can read here (in English). It includes limiting Presidential runs to 2 consecutive terms.

Then, in 2016, he ran another referendum, aiming to amend the constitution to allow further runs. This referendum returned a "no", 51.3% to 48.7%. However, he instead turned to the Plurinational Constitutional Court and requested that they amend the constitution to abolish term limits instead (for background, the members of the PCC are popularly elected in Bolivia, and it's the highest court in the nation). The court abolished term limits, on the basis that refusing to allow someone to run in the election is a breach of the American Convention on Human Rights.

That brings us to 2019, when Morales ran again for a third consecutive term, and won 47% - 36% (36% being the closest runner-up, a Centrist party). The OAS claimed there were irregularities in the vote count. Cue a coup d'etat by sections of the Bolivian police & military (and supported by the US), and the installation of Jeanine Anez (from a small right-wing party, notably not from the winning party or the runners up) as President. Anez oversaw a violent crackdown on protestors and journalists in Brazil.

It subsequently turned out that the OAS audit of the vote (that had concluded there were irregularities) was seriously flawed. Then finally in 2020 Anez allowed an election to take place, the result was an overwhelming victory for MAS (Morales' party). Morales will be returning to Bolivia, but won't be taking over as President again.
I say that's a REALLY smart move on Morales' part to not once again take office as President. Especially since after his aims of abolishing term limits makes him appear like he wants to remain in office for life as dictator.
 

tstorm823

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If the MAS leadership actually puts people in jail for the crime of not resigning when MAS screwed up, they are exactly as dictatorial bastards as they were accused of being, and Bolivia's going to go to hell sometime soon.
 

crimson5pheonix

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If the MAS leadership actually puts people in jail for the crime of not resigning when MAS screwed up, they are exactly as dictatorial bastards as they were accused of being, and Bolivia's going to go to hell sometime soon.
Actually the crimes they're charging Anez and co for are "genocide and other offences" for carrying out killings of indigenous people for being MAS supporters.

 
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tstorm823

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Actually the crimes they're charging Anez and co for are "genocide and other offences" for carrying out killings of indigenous people for being MAS supporters.

Ok, but that's not what happened. Protestors attacked and blockaded major infrastructure. It wasn't "carrying out killings of indiginous people". It wasn't genocide. It was conflict that was entirely Morales' fault for inciting.
 

crimson5pheonix

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Ok, but that's not what happened. Protestors attacked and blockaded major infrastructure. It wasn't "carrying out killings of indiginous people". It wasn't genocide. It was conflict that was entirely Morales' fault for inciting.
I don't know, the state coming down and killing dozens of protesters sounds pretty genocidal to me, I think that charge'll stick.
 
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tstorm823

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I don't know, the state coming down and killing dozens of protesters sounds pretty genocidal to me, I think that charge'll stick.
The protesters were trying to kill people. They were blockading the city and causing food and energy shortages.
 

SupahEwok

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Ok, but that's not what happened. Protestors attacked and blockaded major infrastructure. It wasn't "carrying out killings of indiginous people". It wasn't genocide. It was conflict that was entirely Morales' fault for inciting.
So when protesters were blocking streets and highways this summer, our police would have been fine with just gunning them all down?
 

tstorm823

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So when protesters were blocking streets and highways this summer, our police would have been fine with just gunning them all down?
That's not comparable scale. Protestors this summer in the US blocked off small areas or single highways to get visibility of their protests. In Bolivia, it was a coordinated effort to block all shipment into an entire city. If a group organized in the US to not let resources into a major city by any route for long enough to cause food and gas shortages, the military would level them, yes.
 

crimson5pheonix

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The protesters were trying to kill people. They were blockading the city and causing food and energy shortages.
That's certainly one way to view things.

Looks like they (and a lot of other people) are viewing it through the lens of "the state ordered police to kill indigenous people as MAS supporters", which I at least find a lot more compelling, since that's what it looks like from the evidence.
 

SupahEwok

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That's not comparable scale.
Somehow I don't think it's a question of scale.

Man, you like to cry in here about how you're the real victim of prejudice, as a Catholic, as a Republican, whatever. Then you support mass execution of protesters, and then wonder why you get accused of supporting fascism.

 

tstorm823

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That's certainly one way to view things.

Looks like they (and a lot of other people) are viewing it through the lens of "the state ordered police to kill indigenous people as MAS supporters", which I at least find a lot more compelling, since that's what it looks like from the evidence.
Stop calling it "indigenous people" like it matters. You're even just taking their word that it was in any way "indigenous people". If people were killed while trying to blockade a police escorted gas shipment into a suffering city, and someone tells you that's genocide against indigenous people, you should start doubting their words.