ISIS hits Kabul University in a large-scale terror attack

[Iron]

‘Absolute madness’: Afghan students mourn victims of Kabul attack

Anger and shock among students after 22 students killed in attack as Afghan gov’t announces day of mourning.

www.aljazeera.com

At least 22 dead and dozens injured in a terror attack on Kabul University. 3 terrorists went through the facility, apparently starting at the law faculty, and attacked everyone in sight in an attack that lasted hours. They were armed with assault rifles, pistols and grenades. Security forces hunted them down across the campus until they were found and shot.

Context : This comes at the backdrop of negotiations between the government in Afghanistan and Taliban regarding a treaty for lasting peace and cooperating. It's claimed by ISIS, while Taliban denies involvement. This is blow to the peace talks, as many affected by the attack support retaliation.

No peace in Afghanistan anytime soon.

 

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[Dreiko]

The Swedish Migration Agency assures us that there is not a state of war or severe civil unrest in Afghanistan and that seeking asylum on the ground of fearing persecution or war in Afghanistan is not currently valid. So I am sure this is just some lone gunmen type thing. Surely the Swedish Migration Agency could never be wrong about this. That would mean they have been wrong about the state of Afghanistan for the last decade, because Sweden is known to keep soldiers under UN flag in foreign countries just for fun.

There's no war there, what there is is terrorism. The people there don't need to go to Sweden, they need to join the army and take out the terrorists and reclaim their own country for themselves with their own hands.

 

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[Dreiko]

Which is obviously why there are peace talks on going. Afghanistan is a divided country and to suggest that what's going on is anything but a civil war is grossly misleading.

My point was that this is not like in Yemen where you have the Saudis warring with them and they are actual refugees. It's a case where it's their responsibility to sort it out and going to Sweden isn't gonna help fix the issues one way or another. The poorer people who can't afford to go to Sweden will still be stuck in the terrorism/civil war situation.

 

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[Dreiko]

Nah, you only have the Pakistanis sheltering, equipping, training and funding the Talibans. Whether you like it or not, the right to asylum extends to people fleeing from civil wars in their home countries (compare: Syrians fleeing Syria). Whether they have a moral obligation to "sort it out" is beside the point I was making.

It is also, frankly, a really weird point to be making when we are talking about Afghanistan, a country that has been the playground of superpowers for the last 40 years. No one gave a fuck what the Afghanis wanted in 1979, 1989, 2001, 2014 or today. Both the USSR and NATO (the latter with UN blessing) have torn the country to shreds and both have left it in shambles to sort itself out. Why should some 17 year old Afghani boy be forced to pick up the pieces of the nation that other countries so happily smashed to pieces to smooth over issues in their own home countries?

Cause their parents chose to birth him there and it's his responsibility?

I mean, if Afghanistan wants to cease existing and become a colony of pakistan or the USA or what have you they should do that but as long as they keep trying to be a country each citizen owes their country a duty like that, yes.

 

[Buyetyen]

Authoritarians always go for the educated. This won't be the last attack.

 

[Trunkage]

Hey, look what happens when Obama/Trump makes deals with the Taliban

 

[Trunkage]

Cause their parents chose to birth him there and it's his responsibility?

I mean, if Afghanistan wants to cease existing and become a colony of pakistan or the USA or what have you they should do that but as long as they keep trying to be a country each citizen owes their country a duty like that, yes.

Remember when it was so offensive to wear masks that a militia with guns turned up to parliament to force a governor to market sure masks weren’t a thing.

If the US can get people to take enough responsibility to put such a trivial thing love. Mask on to protect other citizens, why would Afghanistan look free theirs. Especially when both Obama and trump have bypassed the national government to give power to warlords

 

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[Dreiko]

So you are suggesting that some 16-year old kid who's about to either get conscripted by the ANA (Afghan National Army) or press ganged by the Taliban just suck it up and do his civic duty? In a conflict that has been raging for over 40 years at this point with no end in sight? A conflict were one side is a weak, corrupt regime backed by western military power and money and the other is the most fundamentalist of Islamic sects that wants to keep Afghanistan on a level that's functionally medieval and has the backing of the most powerful neighbor. A conflict you are asking an illiterate 16-year old who's never been outside his home village to take a personal responsibility for.

Besides, aren't you an expatriate? Why aren't you back in Greece and contributing to get it out of its financial woes?

Nah, I'm a dual citizen, not an economic migrant. And I pay property taxes there too so I do my fair share for both countries lol.


And again, even if that kid goes to Sweden you will either have to turn Afghanistan into a Swedish colony if not a Pakistani or American one, or, you'll have the kids who couldn't manage to afford that because they were even more destitute and illiterate stuck being conscripted. Your solution is no solution. If you want to colonize Afghanistan cause you deem them too incapable of fixing their issues (no matter who caused them) then just say that.

Remember when it was so offensive to wear masks that a militia with guns turned up to parliament to force a governor to market sure masks weren’t a thing.

If the US can get people to take enough responsibility to put such a trivial thing love. Mask on to protect other citizens, why would Afghanistan look free theirs. Especially when both Obama and trump have bypassed the national government to give power to warlords

The US has a very strong culture of freedom and not one of mask-wearing. In Japan mask-wearing is normal so they just did it with no issue, yet I don't think they're any more pliable than other peoples. So yeah I think this is kinda apples and oranges.

Afghanistan being muslim has a strong submissive tendency where they listen to authorities so if you had a religious leader tell em something they'd be more likely to do it than the americans, in any case. The issue is that there's just conflicting authorities people are listening to, not that they're just libertarians doing whatever the hell they want.

 

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[Dreiko]

My solution is to honor international law by granting asylum to refugees fleeing civil wars. It is not a long term solution to Afghanistan's problems, but it is a solution to the individual Afghan kid who is scared out of his mind and doesn't want to die for either side of a conflict he has no interest in or anything to gain from.

Also, let me point out that once again you are doing that thing were you attribute things to the other poster which they haven't written and then murder that strawman like a real hero. I've never once suggested that Afghanis can't fix their own issues or that colonization is preferable. If anything, it should be pretty obvious that my solution, in a perfect world, would be for the rest of the world to leave Afghanistan alone to sort itself out. That's distinct from the issue of the individual, who should always have a choice of whether to engage in any kind of conflict on behalf of their nation or not, which means they should also have the right to leave the country and seek asylum elsewhere.

I don't think it's realistic for the modern era of the world which is as interconnected as it is to expect countries to just "leave eachother alone". Might as well ask for a fairy to make everyone's dreams come true at that point.

And no it isn't a strawman, if you claim Sweden should take in this one kid, well, why not the other ones? Is it first come first serve? Is it who jumps the boarder first? Is there no line? If there is a line, do we not have to check if the first kid meets it (which is the original thing the government was doing that you were objecting to).

The way to find if a position is good is to maximize it, take it to its logical end, and see what happens when you do that.

If your position is to just take this one kid because he managed to apply fast enough, and THEN stop taking all the other ones, for whatever reason, I apologize for miss-characterizing you, but I'd have to say that position is much less coherent than the one I heroically murdered above.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

And again, even if that kid goes to Sweden you will either have to turn Afghanistan into a Swedish colony if not a Pakistani or American one, or, you'll have the kids who couldn't manage to afford that because they were even more destitute and illiterate stuck being conscripted. Your solution is no solution. If you want to colonize Afghanistan cause you deem them too incapable of fixing their issues (no matter who caused them) then just say that.

"If you can't save everybody then you should save nobody"

 

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[Iron]

The Swedish Migration Agency assures us that there is not a state of war or severe civil unrest in Afghanistan and that seeking asylum on the ground of fearing persecution or war in Afghanistan is not currently valid. So I am sure this is just some lone gunmen type thing. Surely the Swedish Migration Agency could never be wrong about this. That would mean they have been wrong about the state of Afghanistan for the last decade, because Sweden is known to keep soldiers under UN flag in foreign countries just for fun.

This is a terror attack by ISIS, while Taliban denies responsibility. It's plausible to imagine ISIS wishes to deny peace from Afghanistan and attack the less- religious forces within Afghanistan. Remind yourself that in their (ISIS) worldview women shouldn't be able to receive education, while the university accepted women, and among the victims there were women (I saw photos from the crime-scene. heartbreaking).
Similar terrorist attacks occurred in Europe, in France and Austria, which were also claimed by ISIS. I wouldn't go as far as to say that France and Austria are unsafe countries.

 

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[Iron]

There's a distinct difference between one guy with a knife attacking and killing a handful of people and a group of people armed with assault rifles roaming the grounds for hours while shooting anyone they see. I see your point, but Afghanistan is decidedly an unsafe country considering the general level of violence and the fact that the Taliban and government are locked in a civil war, albeit one that is currently on the road to at least a cease fire if not outright peace talks.

One might also note that ISIS and the Taliban are not very far removed from one another in terms of how they view women. The Taliban didn't allow women education either, nor to leave the home without a close male relative as a chaperone. I fail to see how this particular nastiness is relevant to the general safety level in Afghanistan though.

Bataclan is the difference, in 2015. There is an insurgency in Afghanistan but the country isn't unsafe at the moment, and shouldn't be unsafe as long as there are international security forces and local trained forces to keep the peace.

I tried to explain to you that ISIS is attacking education and "secularism" in Afghanistan. It is not relevant to the general safety of Afghanistan but an observation regarding the target ISIS selected.

 

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