1 button nade tossing has to stop in online multiplayer

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

How can you go from saying a full auto aim is okay, to moaning about aim assist?

I haven't noticed any worse aim assist on uncharted than any other TPS I've played. And I've never played a tps game were shooting someone at close range was anything other than pot luck.

You move to fast, and the way that the aiming of your gun works means that its nigh impossible to track someone accurately.

I've had encounters go on for more than 2-3 clips of a weapon each. Just because we both run around each other in circles trying to shoot each other. It's really poor.

And nades are hardly a primary weapon, they scarcely ever take anyone out in a random meet and spam situation. They do however work fucking brilliantly for campers.

I took 2 people out yesterday in a very satisfactory game of 3 teams. Both of them were in airstrip. Camping in the top building. In came up behind them and rolled my nade right into the middle of them.

Took both of them out before they even had a chance to react.

The auto-aim mechanic works great in Metal Gear Online; you can't lock-on to an enemy unless they are really close, basically close enough that if it was real life aiming isn't required, just point and shoot in their direction and you're going to hit a guy if he's 5 feet away. With aim assist, it screws me up when I am actually trying to aim at enemies. I've hated aim assist in every game that's ever had it, it messes up my aim. And, it's not even something that's needed, Metal Gear Online is all about aiming and headshots, and it doesn't have any aim assist and there is no issue with aiming. The good players aim with the free look camera and when you press L1 to bring up the aiming reticule, the reticule is already on the enemy's head. If you're standing still trying to aim, you'll get killed quite quickly.

I do agree that Uncharted 3's nades aren't doing most of the killing, they are actually worse in Uncharted 2. Although, you can't deny that it's quite commonplace for the first thing your enemy does when he sees you is toss a nade in your direction. And, if you come up behind 2 guys, you should be able to kill them both with your gun. In Uncharted, it takes too many bullets to kill so in that situation, using a nade is the better tactic.

That does not make one button grenades bad. You are just pointing out that the uncharted devs are fucking retards and dont know how to do a mechanic as simple as that. If they want an example of good one button grenades all they would have to do is look at nearly every single other shooter. Most notably CoD and battlefield.

I realize 1BNT isn't as bad in other games. It's just that the cycling mechanic works just as good plus it frees up more buttons to implement more mechanics. MAG plays just like COD (when you are just moving around and shooting), and cycling nades works just fine in MAG.

 

[Katana314]

I could be wrong but it often seems in Uncharted like the grenades don't quite have a 5-second timer. Changing that could help. As some people have said, just making the throw animation take longer might be a good idea. However, keep in mind that other solutions reduce simplicity for players, and make the controls more confusing.

I certainly get the issue; that you want a clear victor in a 1-on-1 engagement, rather than both of them dying which is ultimately a stalemate ending.

I don't get how cycling through weapons via a shoulder button is complex. Plus, with that setup, there are more free buttons on the controller to implement new things. It's win-win if you ask me. If every game used this setup, everyone would be used to it like how when you pick up any FPS, the control scheme is exactly the same.

It is complex, period. It requires more button presses, which in the heat of the action is more confusing to someone not used to those kind of controls.

Press a Direction on D-pad (and D-pad isn't a very direct tactile thing; people often hit the wrong direction), press trigger, vs just press trigger - it's pretty obvious which one is easier to remember in the millisecond it matters.

I'm not saying people can't figure it out at all, I'm saying it's not all that uncommon for me to forget how to do something in a split-second moment of a game because it requires multiple button presses.
"First switch to aiming mode...then switch your attack stance...now press these two buttons together..."
People like having one button, one action. That is a standard principle of interface design, even outside of games.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

I don't get how cycling through weapons via a shoulder button is complex. Plus, with that setup, there are more free buttons on the controller to implement new things. It's win-win if you ask me. If every game used this setup, everyone would be used to it like how when you pick up any FPS, the control scheme is exactly the same.

It is complex, period. It requires more button presses, which in the heat of the action is more confusing to someone not used to those kind of controls.

Press a Direction on D-pad (and D-pad isn't a very direct tactile thing; people often hit the wrong direction), press trigger, vs just press trigger - it's pretty obvious which one is easier to remember in the millisecond it matters.

I think it's actually easier as when you switch to nades, you then throw them the same way you shoot, L1+R1 (or triggers on the 360). And, if the game has other support items like traps or something, you would plant them in the same exact manner as you would shoot as well.

Really, pressing the wrong direction on a d-pad (maybe if you are using a 360 d-pad)? A good portion of most gamer's lives has been spent using a d-pad. Hell, in Metal Gear Online, I'm using the d-pad while trying to aim at someone's head while leaning left and right.

 

[Blindrooster]

For example, it is extremely broken for both players to get into a gun fight, one of them realizes they are losing, and the loser then tosses a nade just before he dies and can easily kill the winner because the winner has to keep shooting for that extra second to finish off the kill. The loser is able to kill the winner of the gun fight resulting in no one actually winning.

I believe this to be the purpose of grenades.

 

[Susan Arendt]

I think referring to grenades as "nades" has to stop, personally.

 

[Neverhoodian]

honestly, without it grenades are underpowered.

I think grenades are underpowered in games because they don't do enough damage. You could just go for realism by having a switch time and greater damage, which would be an alternate way to balance it. It's all about the system that involves less random grenade deaths while keeping grenades actually useful, IMO.

Agreed. Your typical frag grenade has an effective kill or wound radius of fifteen to twenty meters, with individual fragments sometimes flying much further than that. I wouldn't mind making grenades more cumbersome to use in games if it resulted in a similar degree of destruction.

 

[Ironic Pirate]

I think referring to grenades as "nades" has to stop, personally.

This. Also, that entire post is opinions. In my opinion, Uncharted is based around fluid control, and having all your options at the touch of a button is a core of the series. You don't have a weapon wheel, and you don't switch to grenades.

Also, whenever they're throwing the grenade at you (during which time they aren't shooting you) to kill them. If they try and cook the grenade, you can kill them easily. If they don't, you can finish killing them and still have time to roll away, if the barely aimed and small blast radius grenade even comes close to injuring you in the first place.

Similarly, regenerating health is key to the fluid control of the series. No tedious "where the fuck are the health packs?", no backtracking to look for one you may have seen ten minutes ago. Ditto for multiplayer, where I prefer regenerating health in everything except ultra-realistic simulation type games, or maybe the occasional class based game. Of course, this is all my opinion.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

I think referring to grenades as "nades" has to stop, personally.

I really don't care either way, I just used nade instead of grenade because it's shorter. I do feel "nade" works as a better verb like "nade base 1" compared to "grenade base 1" but that's about it.

I think referring to grenades as "nades" has to stop, personally.

This. Also, that entire post is opinions. In my opinion, Uncharted is based around fluid control, and having all your options at the touch of a button is a core of the series. You don't have a weapon wheel, and you don't switch to grenades.

Also, whenever they're throwing the grenade at you (during which time they aren't shooting you) to kill them. If they try and cook the grenade, you can kill them easily. If they don't, you can finish killing them and still have time to roll away, if the barely aimed and small blast radius grenade even comes close to injuring you in the first place.

Similarly, regenerating health is key to the fluid control of the series. No tedious "where the fuck are the health packs?", no backtracking to look for one you may have seen ten minutes ago. Ditto for multiplayer, where I prefer regenerating health in everything except ultra-realistic simulation type games, or maybe the occasional class based game. Of course, this is all my opinion.

Switching to a grenade isn't slow. In fact, I can throw a grenade faster in Metal Gear Online than in COD because there is no "cooking" of grenades in Metal Gear Online, plus everyone runs around with grenades out and quick taps R2 to switch to their primary.

If you've tried the Uncharted 3 beta the game plays a lot slower, and it's not nearly as fluid as Uncharted 2.

I don't mind regen health in single player, I still prefer a health bar though. However, I feel regen health totally breaks multiplayer. Warhawk has probably as much stuff going as you can in a multiplayer game, and that games works just fine with a health bar. MAG plays like any other FPS and has a health bar, which then allows for someone to focus on being a medic, if health regen was in that game, you wouldn't have that playstyle available.

 

[JochemDude]

Don't you know grenades only become overpowered when you scream 'frag out' first?

Seriously though, I have much more hatred against a knife under a button than a grenade. Just make the animations better, (Get grenade, Pull pin, Trow. (Get knife, Point pointy edge towards target, Stab or slash, repeat as necessary, Sheet knife) It's sooooo simple. Same goes for guns by the way. Slow is teamwork and tactical ('cause more people can keep up), Fast is exploits and jerky reflexes ('cause some people can't keep up).

Also fuck regen health, one bullet to chest or head is dead. Add a believable difficulty of shooting a gun on target and some random deviation and I'm happy.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Don't you know grenades only become overpowered when you scream 'frag out' first?

Seriously though, I have much more hatred against a knife under a button than a grenade. Just make the animations better, (Get grenade, Pull pin, Trow. (Get knife, Point pointy edge towards target, Stab or slash, repeat as necessary, Sheet knife) It's sooooo simple. Same goes for guns by the way. Slow is teamwork and tactical ('cause more people can keep up), Fast is exploits and jerky reflexes ('cause some people can't keep up).

Also fuck regen health, one bullet to chest or head is dead. Add a believable difficulty of shooting a gun on target and some random deviation and I'm happy.

I hate the knife button as well. I play Metal Gear Online and your gun, knife, pistol, and grenades are all on the R2 button and you have to cycle to them; knifing is actually hard and guns beats knives in a gun fight in Metal Gear Online unlike COD (this guy is shooting me, I'm going to run up and knife him bullshit). If you use one button to cycle through your weapons (instead of just using longer animations), then you don't need a grenade button, a knife button, and you can incorporate more actions into the game since you have more buttons available.

With health regen, it's not even that I want realism. It's just that if a guy was hit then he should be at a health disadvantage for a teammate or I to more easily kill when we next encounter him.

 

[Katana314]

I don't get how cycling through weapons via a shoulder button is complex. Plus, with that setup, there are more free buttons on the controller to implement new things. It's win-win if you ask me. If every game used this setup, everyone would be used to it like how when you pick up any FPS, the control scheme is exactly the same.

It is complex, period. It requires more button presses, which in the heat of the action is more confusing to someone not used to those kind of controls.

Press a Direction on D-pad (and D-pad isn't a very direct tactile thing; people often hit the wrong direction), press trigger, vs just press trigger - it's pretty obvious which one is easier to remember in the millisecond it matters.

I think it's actually easier as when you switch to nades, you then throw them the same way you shoot, L1+R1 (or triggers on the 360). And, if the game has other support items like traps or something, you would plant them in the same exact manner as you would shoot as well.

Really, pressing the wrong direction on a d-pad (maybe if you are using a 360 d-pad)? A good portion of most gamer's lives has been spent using a d-pad. Hell, in Metal Gear Online, I'm using the d-pad while trying to aim at someone's head while leaning left and right.

You're arguing that someone "should already be used to something"...

That's not a valid stance to take. What makes the best FPS in the world great is that it can be picked up by anybody for its smooth, intuitive controls. Most games reserve the D-pad for a last-resort switching of modes. Modern Warfare and the grenade launcher, God of War and the different spells, etc.

You do have a good point about similarity in usage; just treating grenades as another weapon same as any other. But when an action needs to be done quickly, it becomes an inverted problem; mainly, it can't have any confusion to it.

 

[neonsword13-ops]

Martyrdom Perk anyone?

Anyway, I really have no problem with it.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

You're arguing that someone "should already be used to something"...

That's not a valid stance to take. What makes the best FPS in the world great is that it can be picked up by anybody for its smooth, intuitive controls. Most games reserve the D-pad for a last-resort switching of modes. Modern Warfare and the grenade launcher, God of War and the different spells, etc.

Millions of people buy and play the new COD on day 1 because they are used to it. I vividly remember the first time I played a FPS on a controller, it was whatever Unreal game launched with the PS2 at a friends place, and I found the controls awkward, weird, and unintuitive. I thought the controls flat out blew, and now it feels like I've known how to play FPSs my whole life. Now everyone is used to playing FPSs on a controller and it's 2nd nature to just about every gamer.

Sometimes you just gotta get used to something. Just because you can't pick up and play right away doesn't mean the controls are bad or unintuitive. And, pressing one more button to throw a grenade isn't changing the fundamentals or reinventing the standard shooter control scheme, it's just slightly tweaking them is all.

 

[MiracleOfSound]

One button, one hit kill melee has to stop more.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

The thing is that the one button works just fine in other games so there is no reason to change it. You already have several unused buttons in most fps games so its not like you need to free up any more. I have actually never seen a fps that uses all of the buttons on a console.

My feeling on the subject is that if it works then dont fix it, and it works just fine in most games.

The topic covers all shooters, not just FPSs. Metal Gear Online uses all the buttons, which is a game that allows you to grab enemies, plant C4 on them, and let them run around until you feel like making them explode. MAG uses everything but the d-pad, and if you add in FPS leaning to MAG (which I don't see why FPSs don't have it), MAG would be using left and right on the d-pad as well and then only not using up and down on the d-pad.

One button, one hit kill melee has to stop more.

I completely agree with this as well. It's stupid that you can bring a knife to a gun fight and win.

 

[Ironic Pirate]

I think referring to grenades as "nades" has to stop, personally.

I really don't care either way, I just used nade instead of grenade because it's shorter. I do feel "nade" works as a better verb like "nade base 1" compared to "grenade base 1" but that's about it.

I think referring to grenades as "nades" has to stop, personally.

This. Also, that entire post is opinions. In my opinion, Uncharted is based around fluid control, and having all your options at the touch of a button is a core of the series. You don't have a weapon wheel, and you don't switch to grenades.

Also, whenever they're throwing the grenade at you (during which time they aren't shooting you) to kill them. If they try and cook the grenade, you can kill them easily. If they don't, you can finish killing them and still have time to roll away, if the barely aimed and small blast radius grenade even comes close to injuring you in the first place.

Similarly, regenerating health is key to the fluid control of the series. No tedious "where the fuck are the health packs?", no backtracking to look for one you may have seen ten minutes ago. Ditto for multiplayer, where I prefer regenerating health in everything except ultra-realistic simulation type games, or maybe the occasional class based game. Of course, this is all my opinion.

Switching to a grenade isn't slow. In fact, I can throw a grenade faster in Metal Gear Online than in COD because there is no "cooking" of grenades in Metal Gear Online, plus everyone runs around with grenades out and quick taps R2 to switch to their primary.

If you've tried the Uncharted 3 beta the game plays a lot slower, and it's not nearly as fluid as Uncharted 2.

I don't mind regen health in single player, I still prefer a health bar though. However, I feel regen health totally breaks multiplayer. Warhawk has probably as much stuff going as you can in a multiplayer game, and that games works just fine with a health bar. MAG plays like any other FPS and has a health bar, which then allows for someone to focus on being a medic, if health regen was in that game, you wouldn't have that playstyle available.

MGO =/= Uncharted. What works in one game doesn't work in another. Also, I played the Uncharted 2 beta quite a while recently, and what you described happened once. I rolled away and killed him. I probably didn't even need to roll, because grenades in that game are incredibly weak.

Also, the entire point of Uncharted is fluid control. You make the point of Uncharted 3 being less fluid than UC2, well than making you switch to grenades would make that even worse, wouldn't it?

You picked two games that didn't have health regeneration, and said that because it wouldn't work in those games it doesn't work in any games. So two games that were designed from day one to not have to health regeneration, would not be improved by health regeneration. Hmm. On top of that, Warhawk is based around spawning with nothing and running out to go grab some good weapons and equipment. Within that framework, health packs make sense and fit well. Mag is a class based shooter with an emphasis on team work, where people who can heal you are nearby and encouraged to do so.

Let's look at CoD. Removing regenerating health from CoD removes a central component of the series, and there's no easy way for them to work in any other kind of healing system without even more dramatically changing the game. Therefore, non-regenerating health ruins any game ever no exceptions. See what I mean? That doesn't make any sense. Different systems work for different games, and one button grenades and regenerating health work for Uncharted.

 

[bjj hero]

Grenades should stay unaltered. In FPS's the grenade is your counter to camping. It all has its place. If you play hardcore then bullets, grenades and melee are all lethal and it is far more balanced.