15 year old girl kills herself after persistent bullying

[BloatedGuppy]

Did I once say that a violent beating was the logical response of infidelity? No, what I said was that it runs the risk of happening. When you sleep with someone's partner, you're more likely going to get into a conflict with that person. That conflict may be physical. What about that statement comes off as me saying that its ok? You just seem to be drawing conclusions.

Seriously, read what I type.

I read "comes with the territory".

http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/come+with+the+territory

...to be expected under circumstances like this...

...if you say that something comes with the territory, you mean that you have to accept it as a necessary part or result of a particular situation...

...included as a regular part of a job or activity...

Ergo, if I commit an act of infidelity, or if someone commits an act of infidelity on me, it "comes with the territory" that swift and violent reprisal is an inevitably or a necessary result. You then go on to intimate that the individual delivering the beating has "good reason". The law would disagree, but whatever. Then you flitter about, establishing that it wasn't really 15 on 1, it was 1 on 1, with a 14 person cheering squad/backup. When I suggested THAT was plenty intimidating/cowardly in its own right, you hand waved THAT as an inevitably as well with some robble about how that's the way we roll in high school, dawg.

Can you appreciate why, upon reading what you type, one might come to the conclusion that you endorse beatings of this nature? If you don't want to come off like a hypocrite, you might want to reconsider your idioms, or at least argue a little less vehemently in the defense of a girl who took 14 of her closest chums to go beat someone up for home-wrecking her high school romance.

 

[Vegosiux]

A guy used naked pictures of her as blackmail material and than sent them to every she knew.

something that occured due to her own stupid choice to flash a guy on the internet. Then compounded by not pressing charges.

Actually, that occured due to the guy in question making a choice to use those pictures as blackmail material and then send them to everyone she knew. That was his choice, not hers.

Or are you actually going to argue she was the only person making any kind of decisions one needs to be accountable for in this entire saga?

Let me tell you a story. Years ago, when returning from a LAN party at night, I was jumped and mugged. But hey, sucks to be me, my fault for walking home at 3AM, right? The muggers got put behind bars, of course, but that's just sheer injustice, after all it's not like they were the aggressors, it was all because of my bad choice to walk home at 3 AM...


....yeah, that does look slightly ridiculous.

This girl wasn't exactly bright and she sure as hell deserved a good dressing-down, so to say, but, ehm, seriously. Most of this thread is just poor taste and lots of personal insecurity that manifests in acting tougher than people are...

 

[Wolf-AUS]

I cried for this girl. No matter what choices or mistakes someone makes in life, there is no justification for others to drive a girl to this time. It makes me incredibly sad to think about the pain she must have been going through leading up to her seeing this as a viable exit. I know this is 12 pages long, so I'm not sure who will read this. Hell, I know I didn't read all the 12 pages of replies before me. But I want to say, if anyone, anyone at all, is feeling like they have no friends, that nobody likes them and that they are all alone in this world, send me a message I won't judge anyone, I'm in no position to do that based on some of the things I've done in my life. But I can offer an ear to listen and a shoulder to cry on. Life can always get better

 

[Vegosiux]

Something that wasn't possible until she made the choice to flash him.

Something that wasn't possible until she was born, so let's blame her mother.

No matter which way you look at it, it always comes back to this point.

I see many points. And they're all interconnected.

The buck must stop with her.

Yet it seems to be stopping with the gloaters.

She flashed a random dude on the internet... Something she continued to do until atleast 2010, so she couldn't have been that embarassed by it.

"And that is why she had to die" or something?

Or are you actually going to argue she was the only person making any kind of decisions one needs to be accountable for in this entire saga?

Of course she's entirely responsible for this saga. Everything negative that happenes to her are almost completely reactions to her initial stupid action.

Oh, no, you don't. Quit weasel-wording and answer the question I asked.

See, I even left it in the quote!

Now let me tell you a story: Once upon a time there was an internet poster called Vegosiux, who told a boring arse story that had exactly nothing to with this conversation. An he lived happily ever after.

*grin* Seriously? That's the best you can manage for a comeback?

Son, I am disappoint.

 

[Vegosiux]

"And that is why she had to die" or something?

No, she had to die because she killed herself. Thats kind of a symptom of successfully committing suicide... Death. In fact its the primary symptom.

Care to reply to the rest, especially that question you already failed to answer once, after which I proceeded to request an answer again?

Brownie points for trying to be witty though. I like that.

 

[bobthekillerclown]

Amanda Todd was a useless attention whore with no value for her own life. She sent multiple pictures and videos of herself online, used drugs and alcohol frequently, slept with numerous men when and before she was 15. The reason she got into a fight at school in the first place was because she slept with a guy who was already in a relationship and his girlfriend beat her senseless. she tried to kill herself by drinking bleach and sought attention for that. Yes middle school is a nuthouse but going out of your way to make your own life miserable and blaming others for not sticking by you is stupid and inane. This girl does not deserve pity, her family does.

 

[Vegosiux]

I already did answer it. Your question was "are you actually going to argue she was the only person making any kind of decisions one needs to be accountable for in this entire saga?"

To which the answer is this: It doesn't matter what anyone else did, she can't change what they did, only what she does.

Again, not an answer to what I asked, but fine, have it your way, I'll just have to extrapolate it.

Was the guy an arsehole, yes. Did he kill her, no. She killed herself, she flashed the guy, she slept with someone elses boyfriend & she eventually killed herself.

Mhm, well, that's the thing there. Was the guy an arsehole because she decided he would be an arsehole or because he decided to be one? Yet his assholery seems to have been, from what I read, one of the pivotal things.

Again, I'm not saying that she's just a poor lil innocent victim, but merely that things have gone a spiff too far and I'm a bit taken aback by some people's schadenfreude.

She took the cowards way out, after a short life time of making stupid mistakes. Even when she suffered from the negative feedback from her own actions, she refused to moderate her own actions, constantly going back to make the same mistakes over & over again.

May I direct you to the R&P forums, thread "Should suicide be legal?" Most of my thoughts on the act of suicide itself are there, and other people's too.

Killing yourself, after blaming everyone else & refusing to acknowledge your own part in events is down right cowardly.

I'm still trying to figure out the leap of logic between "acknowledging your own part in events" and "nobody else had any part in events at all".

 

[Use_Imagination_here]

A guy used naked pictures of her as blackmail material and than sent them to every she knew.

something that occured due to her own stupid choice to flash a guy on the internet. Then compounded by not pressing charges.

She was bullied to the point that she tried TO KILL HERSELF

Yes SHE tried to kill herself, which again would make her a victim of herself.

I'm guessing maybe a dozen people harassed her online, taunting her about trying to kill herself.

An she didn't block them & move on. Again she was a victim of her self.

Histrionic personality disorder? You're not a psychologist, and even if you were you couldn't make assumptions like that based on such limited information, the fact that you'd say that just further proves how arrogant you are.

I'm also not an astronaut or an engineer, but i can still assure you that The Space Shuttle Challenger exploded 73 seconds into its flight killing its 7 man crew. I can also postulate that wasn't meant to happen... An i promise you i'm neither an astronaut, nor an engieer: Because i don't need to be, to understand a well demonstrated prinicple.

Same principle holds true right here. I don't need to be a psychologist to recognise the symptoms of a type b personality disorder... We can all recognise those.

What the hell is it that causes people to seek blame in the victim? Even if she fucked up she didn't deserve any of the shit that happened to her, she didn't deserve to have private pictures of herself sent to everyone she knew, she didn't deserve to be bullied,

She wasn't bullied, she was critisised. This term bullied gets dropped like no ones business by anyone being critisised... In fact you are bullying me, so i'm going to go kill myslef... In fact i'm going to go kill myself & blame internet bullying... An then my death is all your fault... YOU KILLED ME, ITS ALL YOUR FAULT!

See what i did there. I turned something minor into bullying. People with HPD always blow up any oppositional force into something huge. I'm sure there were some people opposed to her, you block, report & move on. If its criminal you inform the authorities. Instead she wallowed in it, which is also a trait well documented with HPD sufferers.

she didn't deserve to be beaten

Actually she most certainly deserved getting a beating. She went and slept with some other girls boyfriend, knowing that he was dating someone else. Its a pretty well documented outcome of being "the other woman" is having your head beaten in. so that would again make her the victim of her own poor descision making process.

she didn't deserve depression or panic disorder or any of the shit she was diagnosed with, and she didn't deserve to feel worthless and helpless to the point where she wanted to die.

An yet, you know why that happened? Because people critisised her for HER own actions. So again we come back to her being the victim of her own bad choices.

I felt like that for a long time, came pretty fucking close to doing what she did and if you had yourself you wouldn't be insulting her like that. So how about you show some goddamn fucking sympathy and maybe stop acting like you know everything about situations that you don't understand.

Oh, so really all this is just you suffering from basic sympathetic transferance. You were harshly done by, so everyone else with a sob story becomes a surrogate version of you, which you wish to save.

1. She was 11 years old. How many good decisions did you make at that age. And regardless, she wasn't at fault for some asshole completely betraying her trust and ruining her life.

2. No. People who kill themselves HAVE REASONS FOR KILLING THEMSELVES. Regardless of whether or not shes to blame for the act, shes not to blame for depression or any of the mental problems she had that led her to it.

3. So it's her fault that she couldn't completely ignore a dozen people telling her that they want her to die? Never been bullied, have you?

4. Your example has absolutely nothing to do with psychology and is completely incompatible with the situation. You cant diagnose someone with a personality disorder based on a 5 minute video message with a couple hundred words in it. Yes you can recognize symptoms, that doesn't make you a psychologist, that doesn't mean your in any way qualified to diagnose anyone with anything.

5. Yes she was bullied. People told her they wanted her to die. That is not criticism. The rest of your comment suggests a fundamental lack of sympathy, so clearly I can diagnose you as a sociopath. See how that works? Once again I reiterate, that people told her they wanted her to die. Responding negatively to something like that is not wallowing in it. I don't know how you think people work, but most people cant completely ignore everything anyone sais about them, much less severly depressed emotionally unstable teenage girls. The fact that you're unable to find any sympathy for someone who was told to go kill herself by a dozen people is something I find seriously disturbing.

6. So anyone who cheats on someone deserves to be beaten to near death? If you honestly believe that I should probably stop responding, I don't really know how to argue with someone lacking a basic sense of morality. If you make a bad decision and someone else decides to assault you, the person assaulting you is at fault for assaulting you, not you. You seem to think that anything anyone goes through that was even remotely caused by themselves was entirely their fault. Following this chain of logic would mean that revenge is always justified. This is merely a humble suggestion, but perhaps you should re-evaluate your view on life.

7. People BULLYING her was merely one of the causes of her commiting suicide, and even if it was the only cause it still wouldn't be her fault that she felt bad because those people had no right to bully her. Are you honestly telling me that if I went on facebook right now and told someone who recently attempted suicide that she should kill herself that would be criticism? Criticism of what? Her failure to kill herself? Are you completely insane?

8. It's called sympathy, I'm capable of it because I can understand her situation and because I'm a fucking human being, you're incapable of it for reasons you should probably work out yourself. Sympathy does not mean I'm incapable of judging the girl rationally, and trying to use the fact that I feel it for the girl to attack me is absolutely ridiculous.

 

[LongMuckDong]

Had to stop watching half way through, was making me too sad to be honest..

I have been bullied, but also have been a bully later on.. I feel a bit shit about it now.

I hope she's at peace now, that guy is sub-human scum... there's picking on someone, and then there's psychotic stalking and harassment till death.

 

[Psycomantis777]

I don't want to be "that guy" but according to the article she was posting explicit videos and photos of herself online and got upset when some guy shared them with "everyone". Something tells me alot this could of been avoided if she wasn't an attention whore and kept her clothes on.

I see a lot of people have slated this comment, but you got a point, if you do something stupid, people are gonna take the piss. No, it doesn't excuse that she killed herself, it's not her fault, but what can you expect, people are cunts, feed them something like that and they're going to use it against you.

 

[AzrealMaximillion]

Did I once say that a violent beating was the logical response of infidelity? No, what I said was that it runs the risk of happening. When you sleep with someone's partner, you're more likely going to get into a conflict with that person. That conflict may be physical. What about that statement comes off as me saying that its ok? You just seem to be drawing conclusions.

Seriously, read what I type.

I read "comes with the territory".

http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/come+with+the+territory

I still don't get how me using a phrase like "comes with the territory" condones mob justice as you keep accusing me of doing. Like I said repeatedly, I'm pointing out that physical conflict could happen when infidelity occurs. That's not condoning mob justice, that's acknowledging that fact that it could happen.

...to be expected under circumstances like this...

...if you say that something comes with the territory, you mean that you have to accept it as a necessary part or result of a particular situation...

...included as a regular part of a job or activity...

Ergo, if I commit an act of infidelity, or if someone commits an act of infidelity on me, it "comes with the territory" that swift and violent reprisal is an inevitably or a necessary result. You then go on to intimate that the individual delivering the beating has "good reason". The law would disagree, but whatever. Then you flitter about, establishing that it wasn't really 15 on 1, it was 1 on 1, with a 14 person cheering squad/backup. When I suggested THAT was plenty intimidating/cowardly in its own right, you hand waved THAT as an inevitably as well with some robble about how that's the way we roll in high school, dawg.

Can you appreciate why, upon reading what you type, one might come to the conclusion that you endorse beatings of this nature? If you don't want to come off like a hypocrite, you might want to reconsider your idioms, or at least argue a little less vehemently in the defense of a girl who took 14 of her closest chums to go beat someone up for home-wrecking her high school romance.

You just keep putting words in my mouth. I'm not defending the actions of the girl who fought Amanda Todd. You're once again reading into impressions that aren't there. Did I say that she was in the fight for attacking Amanda Todd? Nope. Did I say that Amanda Todd deserved to get beaten up? No.

Nothing I have said has been hypocritical, yet you continue to say that I'm condoning the beating. I just pointed out that these things can happen when you sleep with someone's partner. Somehow you turned it into me condoning fights when all I said was that a fight could happen, especially seeing as how these two were in high school.

All you've been doing since the beginning of this debate is pick a certain things that I've said and debate half of them. But I'll try to bring this back to what we were originally talking about.

What I'm saying is that people need to hold a bit of their compassion back and look at the whole picture. Compassion can cause people to do crazy things. That can't be denied. I'm not saying, don't feel feelings, but keep them in check as best you can. It's nearly impossible for a mob to do that though...

And what I'm saying, again, is that compassion is not the problem. The mob does not want to find Cory or Kody in order to be compassionate to them. There is certainly an emotion driving the desire to find and hurt these guys, but it's not compassion.

See, even here you're reading into half of what I said and putting words in my mouth that were never there. I never said that the mob wanted to find Kody or Corey in order to show them compassion. I don't know where you got this from. They want to find them because of their compassion for Anamda Todd, and seeing as how compassion's definition is "a feeling of deep sympathy and sorrow for another who is stricken by misfortune, accompanied by a strong desire to alleviate the suffering" I'd say what they're doing fits the bill of compassion. What they lack is concrete information to compliment the compassion with reason.

This is compassion mixed with hate, which is entirely possible despite what you're saying about mob justice. The compassion is present, but not the biggest emotion being displayed.

This story reads in a similar fashion to the Kony 2012 charity. People felt compassion for the brainwashed child soldiers being used to kill, and compassion felt towards their victims. Their hate for Kony clouded their judgement. This resulted in people throwing their cash hand over fist to a charity that had no real intention or capability to "find Kony". Hell, the charity barely helped victims of Kony.

This is all slacktivism. Compassion isn't the problem, its part of the mixture here. Compassion mixed with a mob and loads of hate is the big issue here.

 

[AzrealMaximillion]

I don't want to be "that guy" but according to the article she was posting explicit videos and photos of herself online and got upset when some guy shared them with "everyone". Something tells me alot this could of been avoided if she wasn't an attention whore and kept her clothes on.

I see a lot of people have slated this comment, but you got a point, if you do something stupid, people are gonna take the piss. No, it doesn't excuse that she killed herself, it's not her fault, but what can you expect, people are cunts, feed them something like that and they're going to use it against you.

Honestly the sad truth of this is that she could have avoided most of this had she deleted her Facebook, or even blocked the people bullying her. I don't know why she still had access to the people who wanted her to die after her first attempt on Facebook. That's seems kind of counterproductive to the, whole aspect of her moving schools.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I still don't get how me using a phrase like "comes with the territory" condones mob justice as you keep accusing me of doing. Like I said repeatedly, I'm pointing out that physical conflict could happen when infidelity occurs. That's not condoning mob justice, that's acknowledging that fact that it could happen.

Because it's victim blaming.

"I got raped while walking home at 3AM in a revealing outfit!"
"Comes with the territory."
"I got mugged while standing at a bus stop in a bad part of town!"
"Comes with the territory."

"Comes with the territory" is a bullshit phrase. It treats criminal acts like acts of nature that cannot be prevented so they must be avoided, rather than placing the onus on the criminals not to do it in the first place. I don't like the idea of "X could have predicted that they would be the victim of (insert crime), and not performed (risky behavior)". I think it's a ridiculous mentality. Now, that might not have been what you were attempting to communicate, which is why I advised you to choose your idioms more carefully.

You're once again reading into impressions that aren't there. Did I say that she was in the right for attacking Amanda Todd?

You said she had "good reason". Now, I don't know you, so it's possible you have a different lexicon from the rest of humanity for the phrase "good reason", but generally speaking when you imply someone has a good reason for doing something, you are indeed suggesting that they are "in the right".

See, even here you're reading into half of what I said and putting words in my mouth that were never there. I never said that the mob wanted to find Kody or Corey in order to show them compassion. I don't know where you got this from. They want to find them because of their compassion for Anamda Todd, and seeing as how compassion's definition is "a feeling of deep sympathy and sorrow for another who is stricken by misfortune, accompanied by a strong desire to alleviate the suffering" I'd say what they're doing fits the bill of compassion. What they lack is concrete information to compliment the compassion with reason.

This is compassion mixed with hate, which is entirely possible despite what you're saying about mob justice. The compassion is present, but not the biggest emotion being displayed.

This story reads in a similar fashion to the Kony 2012 charity. People felt compassion for the brainwashed child soldiers being used to kill, and compassion felt towards their victims. Their hate for Kony clouded their judgement. This resulted in people throwing their cash hand over fist to a charity that had no real intention or capability to "find Kony". Hell, the charity barely helped victims of Kony.

This is all slacktivism. Compassion isn't the problem, its part of the mixture here. Compassion mixed with a mob and loads of hate is the big issue here.

I thought we covered this.

Compassion isn't the problem. It's not part of the problem. It's not part of an alchemical mixture of emotions that leads to the problem. I don't know how someone comes to this conclusion, that people get fired up because of compassionate feelings, and go on to do stupid things, so your solution isn't "people need to stop doing stupid things", but rather "people need to get their compassion under control". If it wasn't for that pesky compassion, we never would've ended up in this mess!

As for Slacktivism, I think I commented on that in your other thread. As sad and quaint as slacktivism might me, I don't really see the anti-slacktivists upping the ante, I just see them drolly snarking about someone else's fruitless angst. I'll go with the well meaning but ultimately useless individual over the apathetic shitbag who uses other people's ineffectual flakiness as a rationalization for their own utter lack of concern or effort. And I ain't saying that's you, but it's hardly an uncommon phenomenon.

And yes, I am paraphrasing you. If you choose to view it as me "putting words in your mouth" you can do that, and continue to be defensive, and continue to act as if you can't possibly imagine why some of the shit you say comes out the way it does. That's your prerogative. People usually need to be dragged kicking and screaming towards the mirror of self-reflection, myself included.