15 year old kills 9 year old neighbor, charged as adult

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The Great Zegrool

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The impression I'm getting from most of the posters is: "she planned it, she deserves it"

What if a nine-year-old planned the murder of his fifteen-old-neighbor? What if he plans for days, steals his father's revolver, and shoots her in the back?

Should he be tried as an adult too?

If you would condemn the fifteen-year-old child on one reason only, why not condemn the (fictional)nine-year-old too?
 

Ultrajoe

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Apr 24, 2008
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stinkychops said:
If a bomb is about to go off in the middle of a clearing and you have time to get clear, you don't run up and try to diffuse it because its a waste of ammo.
This isn't a bomb we're dealing with, it's a fifteen year old girl suffering from a mental illness. Last I heard, sociopaths don't get depressed, and the last time I looked depression and the conditions that cause it have courses of control or treatment. This isn't running from a bomb, this is an attempt at locking up a young girl for years on the off-chance that she might hurt somebody.

I didn't respond with an analogy, because analogies are good ways to lose sight of the facts. You might, for example, mistakenly compare her to a child molester, or make wild accusations that she did this for her 'own pleasure'.

And for the record I don't think she should be held to different standards at all, hence why she should be charged as a minor.
 

Low Key

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Dnaloiram said:
The impression I'm getting from most of the posters is: "she planned it, she deserves it"

What if a nine-year-old planned the murder of his fifteen-old-neighbor? What if he plans for days, steals his father's revolver, and shoots her in the back?

Should he be tried as an adult too?

If you would condemn the fifteen-year-old child on one reason only, why not condemn the (fictional)nine-year-old too?
A 9 year old is in 4th grade. A 15 year old is in high school. There is a clear difference in mental capacity and maturity. While the 9 year old would probably still get a few years in a psych ward, the 15 year old should know murder is wrong by that point in their life. They deserve a much harsher penalty than being evaluated until they are 18, then released with nothing on their record.
 

crudus

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Premeditated Murder is a very serious crime and should be tried as an adult. If you plan out the death of someone then you are old enough to know it is wrong. Especially if it is "just to see what it felt like".

AWC Viper said:
FAIL on the US Justice system.
Though I don't mind you saying things like this, please actually back them up with reasons as to why you have this opinion.
 

JWAN

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Dec 27, 2008
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spent a week planning a murder,
15 years old

I still will have to go with "charged as an adult, minus the penalty of life or the death penalty"

that begs the question where will she go for her sentence, I think 20-35 years is fair, but regular prison isn't a good plan. That's why I think they need a special system for people like this for 14-18 year olds.then they can either be released or carry out their sentence in a real prison.
 

A Weary Exile

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stinkychops said:
Ah, I totally misinterpreted that, my philosophical side is getting rusty. :p

But like Ultrajoe said I prefer to stick to facts (Or opinions, whatever the case) because using an analogy usually means you don't have facts (Or valid opinions) to present your side of the argument.
 

Fritzvalt

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May 12, 2009
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As I recall, children at the age of 14 have been tried as adults. Precedent has been set. To do anything else would be irresponsible.

At the age of 15, you know right and wrong, you also know a good bit of the law and understand that your actions have consequences. Try her as an adult.
 

JWAN

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AWC Viper said:
FAIL on the US Justice system.
Its premeditated murder. If you want to kill like an adult we'll treat you like an adult.
-------------------------------------
20-30 years If I had a choice
 

QuantumT

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Nov 17, 2009
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Dnaloiram said:
The impression I'm getting from most of the posters is: "she planned it, she deserves it"

What if a nine-year-old planned the murder of his fifteen-old-neighbor? What if he plans for days, steals his father's revolver, and shoots her in the back?

Should he be tried as an adult too?

If you would condemn the fifteen-year-old child on one reason only, why not condemn the (fictional)nine-year-old too?
This is only vaguely relevant to what's being discussed here as we are mostly discussing this specific case (and as far as I am aware, what you suppose has never happened).

Besides, are you going to claim the mental maturity of a 9 year old and a 15 year old are the same?
 

Hiphophippo

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I'm probably the only one that is curious to hear how it felt from the horse's mouth. I bet she's less excited now.
 

JWAN

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Dnaloiram said:
The impression I'm getting from most of the posters is: "she planned it, she deserves it"

What if a nine-year-old planned the murder of his fifteen-old-neighbor? What if he plans for days, steals his father's revolver, and shoots her in the back?

Should he be tried as an adult too?

If you would condemn the fifteen-year-old child on one reason only, why not condemn the (fictional)nine-year-old too?
big difference between a 9 year old and a 15 year old. This person is old enough that the government trusts her with a drivers permit.

She needs to do time and the juvenile detention system wasn't built for murderers.
 

AWC Viper

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crudus said:
Premeditated Murder is a very serious crime and should be tried as an adult. If you plan out the death of someone then you are old enough to know it is wrong. Especially if it is "just to see what it felt like".

AWC Viper said:
FAIL on the US Justice system.
Though I don't mind you saying things like this, please actually back them up with reasons as to why you have this opinion.

she's only 15. what happened to juvie? or mental incarceration?
 

Low Key

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AWC Viper said:
crudus said:
Premeditated Murder is a very serious crime and should be tried as an adult. If you plan out the death of someone then you are old enough to know it is wrong. Especially if it is "just to see what it felt like".

AWC Viper said:
FAIL on the US Justice system.
Though I don't mind you saying things like this, please actually back them up with reasons as to why you have this opinion.

she's only 15. what happened to juvie? or mental incarceration?
I bet a lot of 15 year old criminals ask that who didn't commit murder, yet still got tried as an adult. Read my first post on page 2. Reply number 52 to be exact.
 

jonnosferatu

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Smack-Ferret said:
No fucking teens have depression. Don't even start.
Tell that the three Ph.D. psychologists running the outpatient therapy clinic where I spent three weeks out of my 9th grade year. They certainly seemed pretty convinced that I (along with most of the people I met there) was or had recently been suffering from acute depression, but I'm sure you know better.

No as a matter of fact I am not joking. Do you know how many high school girls I met that said they were depressed? A friggin heap. Next thing I know there laughing heartily with their other depressed friends.
Responding on the basis of "HAVE depression" as in your first post:
Firstly, I find it rather alarming that you think that high school girls are reliable sources when looking for a clinical diagnosis.
Secondly, having a severe psychological problem doesn't render you completely unable to express any emotion not of a dreary nature. It certainly makes it harder, but a chronic (in both the long-term and "short-term" senses) sadness does not eliminate a person's ability to find something funny.

Responding on the basis of "said they were depressed" as in this post:
Depression as a mood state is so far removed from depression as a psychological problem that it's only for convenience that they even share the same name. One can "be depressed" over virtually anything and for any period of time - all it means is that your mood is, literally, "depressed" - ie, "you're not happy right now." There is, as I just stated, a very distinct separation between that a mental disorder.

---

With regards to case, I agree with the "adult" and "detention then adult" parties. It was premeditated with full knowledge of the consequences with regards to everyone else, and executed by a logical, reasoning individual - ergo, you either treat it as such now, or you stick her somewhere secure until she's old enough for you to do it without people whining.

I question the assessment that she would necessarily do it again, but the fact that she did it for the reasons she did is a pretty strong indication that it's not worth the risk.

EDIT: As an attachment to this, RE: Depression Drugs
While there's a definitely a major correlation between most of these drugs and some rather disturbing violent events (Columbine comes to mind), the majority of those cases have essentially been either "rage" killings or their planned equivalents. She may have been on the drugs, but her actions break the pattern enough (to my knowledge, at least) that I wouldn't say they're a likely factor.
 

LeonLethality

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Mar 10, 2009
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ugh whatever she gets is too good for her if I ran things when somebody committed a crime the same thing would happen to them as punishment, that would discourage people from doing things like this, well except masochists.
 

Cryfear101

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Aug 16, 2009
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Execute the *****, from the picture she looks actually head scrambled and the here i quote:

"Ultimately, she stated she wanted to know what it felt like"

that does it for me.