15-year old Stabs Bully 11 Times at Bus Stop, Gets Away With It

[ThreeWords]

11 times =/= self defence, methinks

Have you ever been in a fight? Like at all? Once your adrenaline is pumping, it's nigh impossible to make yourself stop without the other person ending as little more than a smear. You can throw 11 blows (and when holding a knife and untrained, a punch and knife thrust is pretty similar) in under 15 seconds.

True enough, but you mean someone harm while doing so. To say otherwise is a lie. If he was enough into the the fight to stab the bully so, then we must admit he was fighting with a knife. Which is pretty illegal, especially against unarmed opponents.

On the other hand, its farcical to try and judge the situation by a report from the internet; we'll learn more about our own psychological issues than anything else.
I would say the best way to determine guilt would be to speak to the kid and see how bad the incident had messed him up.

 

[Vegosiux]

All this demonstrates to me is something that i've said for a while.

For all our technology, our stone houses, our ipods, our wireless internet and whatever else we may consider civilised, we have not changed in two thousand years.

We are still the humans who fought and died over Octavian's desire for vengeance against his adopted father.

We are still the humans who sacked Lindifarne, killed monks and raped women, making names for ourselves in history.

We are still the humans who toiled the fields, broke our backs and calloused our hands as serfs to higher masters who were little different from us in many manners.

We are still the humans who ran from the wolves and the lions and let our friends fall so we might survive.

We are still the humans who kissed our child on the forhead before leaving out on a fishing ship that might well be scuppered in a storm, leaving us at the bottom of the sea.

This story wouldn't be out of place in any point in history. Someone is cruel, they are stabbed. What of the ages involved? Fourteen is an age of hormones and growing up. The same hormones that have been going round our system and drove us to hunt, to fight for whatever reason and to kill for the smallest things.

Argue over right and wrong all you want, but put simply, who was wrong? The bully was committing acts they knew caused harm. They knew the consequences of their actions on the person, but were concieted and complacent in the thought that the victim was powerless. Eleven times being stabbed was not out of fear or misguided action, it was out of hatred and a want for vengeance in its purest form.

I'm not going to put a point out about who was right and wrong, because as soon as I read the title of this thread I knew that there would be a large argument going on anyway. That's my two cents up there, just remember, you're little different from the man who chased down, killed, skinned and ate boar thousands of years ago bar your clothes, your house and your tools.

Wow. Seriously my hat is off there.

 

[Arina Love]

so trash, wasting everyone's air, died. Good,another step to brighter future. Kudos to Jorge and judge.

 

[VondeVon]

It's a shame that kids were involved, but I think the judge made the right call.

 

[Agayek]

True enough, but you mean someone harm while doing so. To say otherwise is a lie. If he was enough into the the fight to stab the bully so, then we must admit he was fighting with a knife. Which is pretty illegal, especially against unarmed opponents.

On the other hand, its farcical to try arned judge the situation by a report from the internet; we'll learn more about our own psychological issues than anything else.
I would say the best way to determine guilt would be to speak to the kid and see how bad the incident had messed him up.

True. You don't get into a fight without meaning harm to your opponent; that's literally what a fight is. That said, using a weapon when surrounded and outnumbered by your assailants probably isn't likely to be viewed as terribly negative.

I just had to point out that the number of stab wounds is not nearly as outrageous as it sounds on paper. Adrenaline does some crazy things.

 

[LetalisK]

I'm in the mixed emotions crowd on this one. "Fuck that bully" meets "Jesus Christ, someone fucking died!" I'm fairly certain the kid didn't kill him out of premeditation as 11 stabs isn't anything when you're talking about being in the heat of the moment and (presumably) you don't have any combat training or any such training to handle extreme amounts of stress in the moment. Does he deserve to be punished for murder? No. Does he need help? Oh, fuck yes. He's gonna be fucked up for awhile even with proper help.

 

[Andothul]

If you don't want to be stabbed don't harass, menace, threaten and or bully people.

Its really that simple.

Idk if the boy should be prosecuted or not but i have no sympathy for people who go around thinking they can bully others and not have any consequences.

 

[omega 616]

Can I ask a question to all the American's? What if the kid had took his dad's gun instead of a knife? Would that change your views at all?

On topic. I think 11 times is a little much but I think I get why he went a little psycho. It obviously happened over a year or something of constant bullying and then when he got hit in the head he just "saw red" and released all his pent up frustration ... then saw more red!

I think he shouldn't get off like he egged a car, I think he should get some serious counseling, not only about being bullied but about killing as well ... don't want him getting suicidal over it or going on a rampage the next time he gets picked on.

 

[AndyFromMonday]

Bus stop, I'm afraid.

[sup]A little part of me just died[/sup]

EDIT: Even more so, since being post number 176 means that I almost certainly wasn't the first to mention.

Sorry, I'm not a native English speaker. I make mistakes like everyone else.

 

[Sacman]

I have mixed emotions on this story.

Firstly i believe that the kid had a right to defend himself, every kid does, but was stabbing him 11 times necessary. I'm sure once would have been enough.

Second, why a knife, couldn't he have just battered him for a bit with a bat or something? It doesn't make sense why he would carry a knife as stab as many times as he did.

Should he get away with it? No, but he shouldn't be prosecuted as a murderer, maybe given a less harsh punishment. Seems only fair.

Knives are usually easier to get a hold of and conceal. When people start harassing you it's hard to control you rage which is why I believe the guy ended up stabbing the bully 11 times. I agree with the judge's ruling by the way, he might have had a choice but honestly, prosecuting a teenager that is clearly mentally disturbed from years of being bullied on the counts of manslaughter is not the right thing to do.

Ok, yeah, pushed to the limit is totally understandable, similar to that Australian kid, but rage making him stab 11 times is still pushing it a little. I agree with you that he shouldn't be prosecuted, but the whole stabbing thing was not needed, once or twice, yeah ok, but not that many stabs, even while enraged.

I see someone has never been in a high school fight before. Given that neither of them have any real experience fighting, there's two ways this can go down. Either the kid curled up in a ball and gets his face kicked in or he tries to do as much damage in as little time as he has, especially given that the Dylan kid had his lackies with him. When you're up against a group of people its damn near impossible to get away...

Anyway, I have little sympathy for the bully but all the same I can sympathize a bit with the kid for killing him. I can understand however getting my face kicked in all through out high-school has led me to the want to take similar actions so I can hardly blame him...

What Jorge did was a bit extreme, yes. But I can tell you from first-hand experience that A: Bullies don't listen to reason, and B: Knock them around a bit and they back right the fuck off. I never had to stab anyone but I did have to sock someone in the head once. Had no choice, they cornered me in a bathroom. I gave just one of the three a swift right and all three of them ran the fuck away. They decided it wasn't worth it anymore, and they never fucked with me again.

Wow, you got off quite easy. The one time I fought back and actually won is when I had my guitar as a good bludgeon, but than he just came back the next day with friends where they preceded to hold me down while he smashed my collar bone in half, break esentially every bone that was holding my shoulder in place antd break a few ribs with those brass knuckles he had...

 

[kouriichi]

I see nothing wrong with this.
Physical harassment of any sort when your trying to avoid a fight is assault. If you fight back, its self defense. If harassment has been going of for potentially years, this only reinforces the justification of self defense.

So, its a morally grey area. Stabbing him a dozen times may not have been the best course of action, but 90% of the time, bullying is ignored until something like this does happen. At least they didnt try to bring video games into this right?

 

[TK421]

I agree that it was self defense, but not 11 times. Stabbing someone more than once indicates that you mean to kill, not just survive.

 

[Carboncrown]

Wait, does America(or Florida, whatever), not have a law against exessive self-defence?

'Cause eleven times is a lot.

Not when the first 10 didn't stop him. 11 times is not a lot, and it doesn't take long to churn out eleven stabs with a pocket knife.
And when you get of a bus to avoid a fight, and the fight still comes, rationale is now gone because you might die.

Now, the article says:
"He then stabbed Dylan Nuno 12 times in the chest and abdomen. Two of the blows caused fatal wounds, including one that nicked his heart."

You should also try to imitate 12 stab motions with enough force reach the heart (remember that this is a 14-year-old, he's just hacking away instinctively). It does take a few seconds, and in a fight that seems ages.

A 16-year-old is also not exactly King Leonidas. I can't imagine him resembling any sort of a threat after the first three stabs, all to the chest. The first one might have even been the lethal one for all we know.
If you make the conscious decision to bring a knife to defend yourself, you should have prepared yourself to back the fuck away once you land a hit or two. There will be an overwhelming amount of pain and blood, and given the chance, you attacker will surely stop or you'll atleast get an opportunity to escape.
Besides the number of stabs and the ages of the kids, there really isn't any facts about the actual fight. Anything else is pretty much speculation. And honestly, I doubt you can change my mind without any actual evidence.

Furthermore, I'd actually argue that his life was not in danger, given that
1) This was not the first time he was bullied, what's suddenly gonna provoke murder?
2) The bullies knew there'd be no way for them to get away with it.

And finally, I'm not suggesting the electric chair. Just a little more that nothing.

EDIT: I'm not saying there can't be crucial facts that the article fails to mention.

More importantly

No, I am not. Of course they wouldnt be. But this was not a case of self defense.

lolwut

Serously, now you're just being silly.

 

[senordesol]

Can I ask a question to all the American's? What if the kid had took his dad's gun instead of a knife? Would that change your views at all?

On topic. I think 11 times is a little much but I think I get why he went a little psycho. It obviously happened over a year or something of constant bullying and then when he got hit in the head he just "saw red" and released all his pent up frustration ... then saw more red!

I think he shouldn't get off like he egged a car, I think he should get some serious counseling, not only about being bullied but about killing as well ... don't want him getting suicidal over it or going on a rampage the next time he gets picked on.

No, apart from the fact that it's as illegal as fucking hell to:
A. Steal a firearm
B. Conceal a firearm without a CCWP
C. Bring a firearm into a school without requisite licensing
D. Be a minor in possession of a firearm

He should be punished for the above, yes, but using it in self-defense; no.

 

[senordesol]

Furthermore, I'd actually argue that his life was not in danger, given that
1) This was not the first time he was bullied, what's suddenly gonna provoke murder?
2) The bullies knew there'd be no way for them to get away with it.

And finally, I'm not suggesting the electric chair. Just a little more that nothing.

1) How do you know *this time* won't be the time they go too far?
2) What does that mean?