15-year old Stabs Bully 11 Times at Bus Stop, Gets Away With It

[joe-h2o]

'Stand Your Ground/No Duty To Retreat' legislature is deeply deeply flawed at it's core.

if your options are 'running away' or 'stab the guy a dozen times'..the second choice is ALWAYS wrong.

this is a case of manslaughter, not self defense.

The other option is "just take the assault", since running away is usually very difficult if an attacker is determined to hurt you, as the dead kid was in this case: he specifically followed the guy off the bus with a bunch of friends to assault him, despite the kid trying to avoid a fight by getting off the bus several stops earlier.

They were determined to administer a beating to this kid, and no amount of "running away" as this guy clearly tried to do initially, was going to stop them.

Perhaps he should have just accepted the beating, but from the opposite side I have no sympathy for the dead kid. It'll certainly teach him not to do that again, and that there are often unexpected consequences to being a bully.

I'm not condoning deadly force as a solution to this sort of problem by any means, but if you are going to assault another human being you have to be aware that occasionally they might lash out in response.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Guys, you need to stop a second, and think it through on the "11 times" thing.

Once that knife is out...once you've stabbed ONCE...you've passed the point of no return. Your bullying/assault incident has become a mortal struggle. Do you imagine that, having been stabbed, Nuno would scamper away, wide eyed and remorseful? How would you react to being stabbed, in a confrontation where your blood was already up? With as much feral, aggressive force as you could muster, I imagine. If you're going to start stabbing someone, you'd better make sure they're good and incapacitated before you stop.

As to the whole story, it's tempting to go with "Bully got what he deserved", but death by stabbing seems like an unfortunate outcome, for both of them. Nuno never gets to grow up and try to be a better person, Saavedra gets to go through life with a murder on his conscience.

The ruling is bizarre. I thought they already had legislation to cover manslaughter and crimes of passion.

 

[Vegosiux]

How would you react to being stabbed, in a confrontation where your blood was already up?

Bleeding hard and falling to my knees, cringing in pain?

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Bleeding hard and falling to my knees, cringing in pain?

Speaking as someone who has been attacked, shock and adrenalin will carry you for a little bit.

 

[Vegosiux]

Bleeding hard and falling to my knees, cringing in pain?

Speaking as someone who has been attacked, shock and adrenalin will carry you for a little bit.

Speaking as someone who has been attacked as well (though not by a knife, luckily) I was in no position to fight back after one well-timed hit. Was a surprise mugging and all, and my satisfaction lies in the fact that they caught the bastard and he's behind bars now.

 

[SycoMantis91]

Being constantly bullied and beat up by gangs of kids a few times in my not so distant past, I totally understand where the kid is coming from. i thought once or twice about doing a similar thing to a couple kids but never got past the moral part of my brain fighting against it. That being said, he did overdo it. Stabbing him 11 times is kinda overkill, for lack of a better term. Stab him once or twice in the leg and dart off. I still think the kid should get a few years. maybe til he's 18, because while he wasn't fully mentally capable of resisting his actions, by stab 3 or 4, he clearly has the wherewithal to stop himself. At that point, it's just vengeance. Understandable vengeance, but still against the law, and a severe threat to the other kid's livelihood.

 

[GrandmaFunk]

I have no sympathy for the dead kid. It'll certainly teach him not to do that again, and that there are often unexpected consequences to being a bully.

wow, did you seriously just write that?

 

[Vegosiux]

ITT: People siding with assholes.

How about siding with neither? Bullying is bad, I've been bullied a lot when I was a kid, to the point where I was afraid of going out when there were people around; but I wasn't going to fucking kill anyone for it.

And if that bully barged into your home and started attacking you?

Considering I was a kid those days and my parents weren't divorced yet...

"And if you were home alone?"

I'd fucking run into the bathroom and lock the door!

"And if you couldn't?"

Then I'd probably break down and cry like a wuss. And the authorities would take over from there.

 

[PolarBearClub]

Does this not set a precedent for just about anyone carrying around a knife, if they rightly or wrongly believe their life to be in danger?

What about the other students who got off the bus, is it now acceptable for them to carry around knives, considering they witnessed their friend being stabbed 11 times by this guy?

 

[ShadowsofHope]

As much as I can sympathize with the kid (I was a victim of both psychological and physical torment in school from elementary to high school, until I left for cyber school in Gr 11 - although I'm still a little messed up developmentally from such experiences as well, unfortunately), stabbing someone is going too far. Especially 11 times. But then again, in this case.. if you stab someone once.. it doesn't really matter how many more come after that, the deed is already past a take-back.

We really, honestly need better adult interventions in these more serious cases of peer torment. Heck, I didn't even get an honest attempt from my teachers until grade 6 (abuse starting at 1), and then not again until damned high school, despite my parents stepping in when I asked for their authoritative assistance.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I never had to stab anyone but I did have to sock someone in the head once. Had no choice, they cornered me in a bathroom. I gave just one of the three a swift right and all three of them ran the fuck away. They decided it wasn't worth it anymore, and they never fucked with me again.

You were fortunate. Some bullies, when confronted or shamed, won't back off, they'll escalate. Life doesn't always emulate the Karate Kid, and everyone is different.

There's nothing particularly wrong with standing up for yourself, but under specific circumstances, and with the wrong people, it can go very, very badly.

 

[joe-h2o]

I have no sympathy for the dead kid. It'll certainly teach him not to do that again, and that there are often unexpected consequences to being a bully.

wow, did you seriously just write that?

I did. What's the problem with it?

To elaborate, the comment about learning his lesson is obviously facetious since he is no longer alive - I assume he gained some wisdom as he was bleeding out on the pavement.

The comment about not feeling sorry for him is genuine - actions have consequences. If you play with fire, you sometimes get burned. If you bully someone, they might fight back, they might curl up and take it, or they might snap and stab you in the chest.

Like I said, I'm not condoning deadly force as a response, just noting that it is one of the possible outcomes of the kid's decision to attack another person. The result can be "nothing happens" up to and including "I might get killed".

It's no different to poking a lion with a stick from behind a fence. If the lion charges and unexpectedly breaks through the fence, or perhaps through a gate that you assumed was secure then you're likely to get mauled. You perform a risk assessment in your head when you do something, and attacking a kid who you've been bullying for some time is certainly going to have less risk than annoying a lion with a stick, but it *does* carry the minute possibility of danger to yourself if the kid decides that "enough is enough" and lashes out at you.

Again, this is not a comment on the outcome of the case - the law is as it is in FL, I'm merely approaching this from the standpoint of "actions have unexpected consequences".

I'm sure his buddies who got off the bus with him will think twice before bullying a kid again. Or maybe not - maybe they'll carry on as usual. Who knows?

 

[Vegosiux]

IF you're dead-serious about just wussing out, then all I have to say to you is: Grow a pair. There's a time and a place for standing your ground, and when you're cornered by a bully that's a pretty good time and place for it.

As I said. "Considering I was a kid those days..." I'm about 17 years older now, and I don't need some pretentious dude on the internet to tell me what to do with my balls.

But I'm sure you're going to be a wonderful father to your 12 old kid who gets bullied and you tell him to "grow a pair" instead of actually listening to him.

You disgust me, good sir. I am reporting you and welcoming you to my ignore list.

I can stand my ground well enough, thank you very much.

 

[GrandmaFunk]

I assume he gained some wisdom as he was bleeding out on the pavement.

we're talking about a 16yo kid ffs, please seek therapy.