15-year old Stabs Bully 11 Times at Bus Stop, Gets Away With It

[SomeBritishDude]

This story is tragic on both sides. The kid clearly didn't want to be in a fight, as he got off the bus several stops earlier, and I find it hard to feel remorse for the bully who makes a point of following him with a bunch of friends. And the kid lashed out. Should he have had a knife with him? Ofcoarse not, but I'd really want to know the background on this, was the kid severally bullied regularly?

I was bullied at school and though it wasn't nearly as bad as being beaten up regularly I know there where I could have killed the bully over it. You just lash out and there's not much you can do to control yourself when that happens. Bullying can be psychologically damaging, I didn't get it nearly as bad as others but I know it effected my self esteem for years, even now to a certain extent. And there are times when you feel trapped and literally nothing can stop it and some days are a living hell. I could have considered a knife.

However the trial turned out prison wasn't the answer. This kid needs councelling and psychological help, not just locked up.

 

[Rottweiler]

If I had a knife when I was attacked in School there would have been more bodies. edit* and my nose would be straighter.

so a broken nose is worth several lives?

there's a pretty scary amount of psychopathic thought process on display in this thread.

Actually, I find it much more frightening that when a victim defends himself, suddenly the bullies and vicious thugs are the Good Guys. And instead of defending the victim, people sit back in their homes and somehow 'know' what level of force was appropriate in that situation that they weren't present for and don't know anything about.

So...if someone physically assaults me, and I use a knife...*I* am psychopathic? You seem hot to place the blame on the victim, and I'd love to see you justify that here.

Is a broken nose worth several lives? How easily you say this...and you base your entire statement on somehow knowing that the bully stops at the broken nose. No. Bullies don't. Bullies see a sign of weakness and they keep going.

Is a broken jaw worth several lives? Is permanent brain damage worth the lives of the people who *INTEND TO CAUSE THAT BRAIN DAMAGE*?

Tell me- how much physical harm is a victim required to allow to happen to themselves before people *who were not there, did not experience the event, and have no idea how far the bullies would have gone if they weren't stopped* are allowed to defend themselves?

 

[ShindoL Shill]

it wasnt self defence because he, a minor, was armed. 1. that's illegal 2. that means it was pre-meditated and 3. he wasnt being attacked at that time.
yet he gets away with it.

in the words of LeeLee Scaldaferri in this week's Feed Dump, "God bless America!"
[/all the sarcasm]

It'll be amusing how you react when your own child goes through enough bullying that they're willing to arm themselves.

i'm going to think "how did i fuck up so badly that my child is a murderer?"

Well, if you're going to go that path, you fucked up by failing to adequately protect your child, or teach them to protect themselves.

Whatever, keep to the party line.

Long story short: It's pretty clear you've never been actually bullied. Your view is becoming inconsequential.

i have been bullied. but... if i dont think that murder is a reasonable response, something must be wrong with me. i must be completely fucking insane.
can i ask you how you would react if i came to your door and told you that your son stabbed someone to death?

 

[Jitters Caffeine]

Did you forget to mention that it was a four man beat down of the kid? That this bully was known to frequently beat this kid? I say it was justified, and holding a vigil for a bully that tormented a kid til he literally snapped is unforgivable to me.

Don't get me wrong, I feel for the parents who lost a son. But that doesn't change the fact this guy tormented this kid and was about to beat him down with 3 other boys.

 

[Sandytimeman]

it wasnt self defence because he, a minor, was armed. 1. that's illegal 2. that means it was pre-meditated and 3. he wasnt being attacked at that time.
yet he gets away with it.

in the words of LeeLee Scaldaferri in this week's Feed Dump, "God bless America!"
[/all the sarcasm]

Can't tell if trolling...

Seriously though the kid did everything he could to get out of the fight. But I like how since the bully died you assume no wrong doing on his part (or at least "forget" to mention it) The thing is he was leading a gang of kids to beat this kid, on that said day. They told him about it in advance. If you are going to get your ass beat by a group of older, stronger teens would you just go in their and get your ass whooped? The thing is the kid had no other option and took measures to stop the fight before hand. He tried to avoid the fight, he warned them off, he tried to leave before the bus stop, he got chased down and pushed into a fight.


I personally have zero sympathy for said bully. This fight could have easily ended with the reverse going, where he and his friends beat this kid into the hospital or to death.

 

[Akyho]

I have been bullied many times. However I stopped the bullying by flipping the shit and fighting them. From then on that bully never tried again....however a week later they were replaced with another bully and the cycle continues.

The main reason those fights stopped the bullying is because in my rage I was always one or two steps away from horrible damage. I have smashed peoples faces repeatedly off railings, I have smashed a head sevral times into a window, thankfully it never smashed. I even brought my full body weight onto a boys head with my knees first into a road twice.

In all this I am thankful it never hurt them badly or worse killed them. However Rage took over.

As a sacred kid that had been given a time and place were they are going to get beaten up. Wise decision or not you dont want to be beaten up and you take what ever you think will stop that from happening. A knife was on hand and he mostly hoped to just point it and stop them.

Didnt work out like that.

 

[demonfridge]

11 times was clearly going for the kill, but who cares really. ***** shouldn't be bullying anybody, specially not a kid 2 years younger than him (16 and 14 is a huge difference).

Definately like that "stand your ground" law in Florida, i'm not from the USA so i'd never heard of that but it sounds great. In the UK you get jailed if you kill a burglar in your own damn home.

 

[Agayek]

"Do something about it" does sound a bit different from "Grow a pair and punch back", doesn't it? Both in tone and in meaning.

Yes, I agree, people do need to learn to "do something about it", but I still can't imagine a school bully breaking into my house when I was 12 years old home alone, hell bent on beating me up like that particular gentleman up there went on about *snicker* Ask a stupid question, and all.

"Do something about it", in the vast majority of bullying cases, explicitly means "punch him the fuck out". The whole thing about someone breaking into your house to assault you was completely random and irrelevant and just watered down the point.

The point being that it is an obligation for human beings to stand up for themselves when they're being assaulted. If someone attacks me, I will fully respond in kind, with the most devastating weaponry I have available to hand. I don't give a fuck about unreasonable response or whatever the legal term for it is. If you are attacked, you are well within your rights to respond with violence. If the other guy doesn't like it, he shouldn't have started it.

To bring that back to the children, teaching kids to stand up and fight for themselves and their rights is one of the most important things we can do. If for no other reason than no one else is going to do so.

On the other hand, I've always wondered about the family / parents of hardcore bullies. Like these people were outraged this kid didn't get convicted of murder, but were they doing anything to stop the emotional and physical damage / abuse this kid was dishing out day after day? What if the kid in the story had killed himself rather then the bully, how would the bullies family have reacted then?

I'm legitimately curious because I've kinda always believed bullies would have to come from bad family lives or something to allow them to be so cruel and heartless.

It's not really a bad family life that causes bullying (though that certainly doesn't help). There's a number of issues/reasons that can create bullies, ranging from innate sociopathy to failure parents to simply venting frustration. It's unfortunate, but rather common.

 

[Stryc9]

ITT: People siding with assholes.


Three things, guys. One: It doesn't take long to stab eleven times, especially under stress. It probably lasted no more than ten or fifteen seconds, at the most. Try it for yourself, hold your hand as if you had a knife in it and see how quick you can 'stab' your pillow eleven times. Then factor in how much faster people move when they perceive their lives in danger, and there ya go. The kid likely stopped when he saw the bully wasn't attacking him anymore. Two: The court of law has ruled it a self defense. That's the end of it. Three: Get off your high horses, shit like this happens all around the world. The only reason half of you are moaning about it is because of the country it happened in.

Hey lookit! I found someone who actually makes sense in this thread finally. Seriously, it's not as if the kid noticed Nunos behind him and pulled a knife and just started stabbing. He'd already been punched in the back of the head once and I'm sure it wasn't just a love tap either, and it didn't look like the attack was going to stop after that. It was self defense plain and simple, and now he doesn't have to worry about the fuckhead coming back for revenge and his asshole buddies are gonna stay the fuck away from him as well.

If you've never been punched in the head give it a try, have one of your buddies do it unexpectedly and see how you react. It's not pleasant, and if you're hit hard enough it can do serious damage.

 

[Rottweiler]

Only in the US can they call premeditated murder self defence.

And only outside the US do people make ignorant, hating statements like this with no basis in reality and no legal standing and think it makes them cool. Actually, sadly people *in* the US do it too...but not usually with that sense of smug superiority.

Really? With no more knowledge than the news story, you state here that a kid with a pocket knife- 3" blade by legal requirement- is a murderer?

Oh, it's because he snuck up on the bully and stabbed...no, that didn't happen.

Well, I guess it's because he attacked the bully while he was helpless...no, that didn't happen either.

So, it seems where *you* are from, having a standard pocket tool (almost everyone I know carries a pocket knife of legal dimensions) is, of course, premeditated murder if they *dare* to defend themselves from an unprovoked physical assault.

Gosh, I agree- why didn't he allow himself to be beaten to death??? I mean, after all- lashing out in self defense, using a small weapon because your assailant is physically more powerful and better trained than you are and has you outnumbered is just crazy talk.

 

[Wilbot666]

Having been a victim of bullying in my teenage years (until I learned to defend myself anyway), this story resonated with me.

In my opinion stabbing the other kid 11-12 times was definitely overdoing it, but he'd done everything he could to avoid the bully.

To me this says that while I don't believe he should have been killed for it, he obviously had no concept of how much fear he had created in his killer's psyche. It's his own fault for pushing the bullied kid too far.

Besides, there are enough bullies in the world. I'm not exactly crying my eyes out at the prospect of one of them NOT maturing into another adult with a taste for power at the expense of others.

 

[Captain_Fantastic]

I have mixed emotions on this story.

Firstly i believe that the kid had a right to defend himself, every kid does, but was stabbing him 11 times necessary. I'm sure once would have been enough.

Second, why a knife, couldn't he have just battered him for a bit with a bat or something? It doesn't make sense why he would carry a knife as stab as many times as he did.

Should he get away with it? No, but he shouldn't be prosecuted as a murderer, maybe given a less harsh punishment. Seems only fair.

1. when your that upset you lose track of yourself, theres a hole in my wall that explains that exact situation.

2. a baseball bat is easier to notice and harder to use, if you thought you were going to be attacked what would you carry a heavy baseball bat that everybody can see or a knife you can keep in your pocket

sorry if you have allready heard this.

 

[Obsideo]

Only in the US can they call premeditated murder self defence.

How is it premeditated murder if he got off the bus three stops early, tried his best to get away, and only fought back after the bully (with his three friends trailing) punched him in the back of the head?

 

[Nielas]

Is a broken nose worth several lives? How easily you say this...and you base your entire statement on somehow knowing that the bully stops at the broken nose. No. Bullies don't. Bullies see a sign of weakness and they keep going.

Is a broken jaw worth several lives? Is permanent brain damage worth the lives of the people who *INTEND TO CAUSE THAT BRAIN DAMAGE*?

Tell me- how much physical harm is a victim required to allow to happen to themselves before people *who were not there, did not experience the event, and have no idea how far the bullies would have gone if they weren't stopped* are allowed to defend themselves?

Considering the situation as described, if I was the kid, I would have been afraid of my life. The kid was surrounded and was just hit in the head. If the bully starts the fight with a hit to the head then I would expect things to just get worse from there.

I have to wonder why the judge was quoting the Stand Your Ground doctrine. It seems to me that the kid fought back specifically because he no longer could retreat.

 

[spartan231490]

I have mixed emotions on this story.

Firstly i believe that the kid had a right to defend himself, every kid does, but was stabbing him 11 times necessary. I'm sure once would have been enough.

Second, why a knife, couldn't he have just battered him for a bit with a bat or something? It doesn't make sense why he would carry a knife as stab as many times as he did.

Should he get away with it? No, but he shouldn't be prosecuted as a murderer, maybe given a less harsh punishment. Seems only fair.

Lots of people carry knives with them all the time. I don't know anyone who carries a bat with them all the time. Further, you can kill someone with a bat too.

OT: Without further information, I have to agree with the judge. Self defense is one of the most important rights a person can have, and it is not a defense that should be overruled without significant evidence. Burden of proof and all that. The evidence in the article isn't enough to support the conclusion that it wasn't self defense.

 

[UnendingLight]

I am going to have to side with the kid on this one.

He did show reasonable attempts NOT to cause harm (more than is listed I'm sure). He tried not to fight, even though I believe he should have done so sooner. Either way, the "11 times is excessive" crowd must not understand the kind of power that can take over when you truly fear for your life. From a bystander viewpoint, it certainly looks like overkill. However, for the kid it probably didn't seem so. All of his anger gets released and before he knows it, it is over.

Now, I do believe that he should take some kind of counseling, just to help him through the encounter, but he should NOT be charged with any kind of crime.