222: Too Gay for the U.S.A.

[theklng]

Unfortunately, the few Japanese games with LGBT characters that actually make it to Western shores rarely explore them in a meaningful way.

what exactly is "meaningful" exploration in sexuality?

meaning would imply purpose, and apart from the need to procreate there isn't an actual purpose to one's own sexuality.

i personally think this entire issue is a storm in a glass of water: why is it that people and designers alike want to care about their protagonist's gender or sexuality? as a designer, would you not want the most people to feel personified in your character, regardless of the above mentioned factors? as a person, would you not feel more content with having a character that you can relate to in other aspects than something as trivial as sexuality?

whenever i put down a character, i make it an effort to create them as asexually as possible. the reason for this is that sexual preference is a personal subject that cannot (yet) be integrated well within a game or narrative. and while sexuality should not be a taboo or in other ways be limited by the public, something as potentially immersive as a game or narrative should focus on the player, the player's entertainment and the player's experience. neither should focus on aspects beyond their range of positive effect; and this too includes sexuality among other things.

 

[MajoraPersona]

BIRDO!!!! NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

OT: They changed his entire character to fit their homophobia?

I think they "respected her choice". After all, you should refer to a transvestite by their prefered gender. Otherwise people give them strange looks and don't respect their rights.

More recent titles have treated the subject with greater respect, most notably the PlayStation 2 RPG Persona 4. Unlike most depictions of homosexuality in games, we don't immediately know that Kanji Tatsumi, one of the game's main characters, is gay. He's a bad-ass, take-nothing-from-nobody kind of guy, far from the stereotype of the effeminate gay man. This approach is refreshing in its honesty: Kanji isn't just some boy-crazy kid who is laughed at by all the other students, and he doesn't necessarily come to grips with his feelings right away. Instead, his realization of his sexuality is messy and difficult, which is a much more nuanced depiction of homosexuality than, say, a pair of near-nude muscle men fighting a giant penis-shaped monster.

Spoiler: It looks like someone...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGJgN5LppJw Watch from 1:28

Spoiler: Didn't do their homework.

I haven't played the game, so I don't know the details, but I believe he falls more under the category of bi-curious, by virtue of his main crush turning out to be a crossdresser/TV. Besides which, the Shadows are exagerations of the suppresed self.

 

[CrystalShadow]

The "guy who thinks he's a girl" line is a direct quote from the SMB2(?) manual. It may explain the usage of that phrase.

ok, poor quote to explain my point. But then referring to 'his gender confused history' implies that, knowing that birdos gender identity is female, is irrelevant, because birdo only thinks 'he' is a girl. Which is about as neatly transphobic as you can get, because it states that internal gender identity is irrelevant compared to physical characteristics.

A non-transphobic way of acknowledging that birdos transness was completely omitted from the american version would simply be referring to 'her' instead of 'his', though 'gender confused' is both insulting and a poor choice of words. A trans person is rarely confused about their gender. Other people might be, but we aren't.

Indeed not. While I have no idea why it was changed at all, the irony of the implication in this article is that "Guy who wants to be a girl" is a preferable description for a transsexual over simply being known as a girl.

Why does the UK (and several other countries) grant the legal right to be recognised as a member of the chosen gender to transsexuals? Because that is how they themselves see things.

A transsexual woman (otherwise known as a male to female transsexual. Terminology gets incredibly confusing here, I know) thinks of themselves as a woman, not a man, and wants to be treated as such.

If they're confident enough in themselves they may say they used to be a man.
But there is more difference between being "a woman who used to be a man" and being "a man who thinks he's a woman" than you'd think there is.

Yep. It's truly ironic that whatever the motivations behind it, changing Birdo to being 'she' is more in line with the wishes of the transsexual community than the older description.
It's especially irritating that people miss this so easily. - Which shows they are discussing a subject they barely know anything about.

Honestly, being included in the LGBT group is a mixed blessing.
We are an even smaller minority than the gay community, and while their support can be helpful, it makes a mess of the issues of the trans community itself.

A trans person is NOT automatically gay. (however you hope to define that... I mean, Homosexual means 'attracted to the same sex'. How can you make a meaningful statement about that when people often can't agree what sex you are? Is a MTF transsexual who is attracted to women a lesbian? Or not? That all depends on how you look at it.)

The mess this causes is evident when you consider they're ultimately unrelated issues.
Trans issues are about self-identity. (are you a man? A woman? Or something else entirely?)

Homosexual issues are about who you find attractive. Are you attracted to members of your own sex, or those of the opposite sex? Or some combination? (Or something else entirely).

It goes without saying that the definition of homosexuality and heterosexuality relies on being able to identify the sexual identity of both people involved first.
Which is the problem for the trans community because we inherently deal with an incongruent sexual identity, and prejudices that cause even more confusion.
(not to mention that transitioning is a lengthy process, and from a physical perspective, during this period you most certainly have a blend of physical characteristics of both sexes, which makes the matter even more confusing than it already is.)

Anyway...

 

[Connosaurus Rex]

To use an stereotype of a southner and say their hatred of the gays are the reason for the censorship

 

[Serenegoose]

A trans person is NOT automatically gay. (however you hope to define that... I mean, Homosexual means 'attracted to the same sex'. How can you make a meaningful statement about that when people often can't agree what sex you are? Is a MTF transsexual who is attracted to women a lesbian? Or not? That all depends on how you look at it.)

Ultimately the only thing you can do is accept the person in question knows their gender, and you simply take their word for it. It's not confusing at all, it's simply recognising cisgender privelige for what it is, and realising you don't have the right to decide someones gender for them. Once that is accepted, if a self identified woman is attracted only to men, they're straight. Nothing confusing about that.

Which is the problem for the trans community because we inherently deal with an incongruent sexual identity, and prejudices that cause even more confusion.
(not to mention that transitioning is a lengthy process, and from a physical perspective, during this period you most certainly have a blend of physical characteristics of both sexes, which makes the matter even more confusing than it already is.)

I argue that only the prejudices cause more confusion, because trans people can often be rendered unable to pursue relationships due to not being able to gauge the reaction of partners upon 'outing' ourselves. Our sexual identities are no less concrete than the identities of cisgender people, save in the case that a trans person is -also- genderqueer and so rejects the notion of concrete sexual/gender identities. Again, physical transition due to hormones is a matter of confusion only for those not going through the experience, and their opinions, bluntly, aren't relevant.

of course this is quite a tangent from a point we both agree on, and that I've tangented from so wildly as to actually edit out of your response. Simply accepting birdo as female, the 'censored US version' is infact more progressive than the article, which by its language, artificialises birdos gender, and asserts that it's 'really' male. That it's being applied to such a trivial, minor character is of no consequence, because it speaks of a larger prejudice only highlighted in this case, that should be confronted.

 

[Scrythe]

It goes the other way around, too.

Anybody remember Poison from Final Fight?

She went from female to male during her trip to the US. Well, sorta...

 

[gatti]

Not only are there limitations in the American game market place for homosexual/transgender characters, but they also have huge problems with male nudity. Take my game for example, "The Adventures of El Ballo": http://www.elballo.com : More bad press for this game was created than good press simply because reviewers and vocal "puritan" gamers couldn't see past the male nudity. Many American editors and reviewers took the male nudity as a sexual marketing ploy in the game, when in reality the story was quite innocent.

There is plenty of female nudity in games, but throw a homosexual/transgender man or a silly penis in the mix and it's utterly forbidden.

 

[AboveUp]

Even though Japan presents a seemingly open front on cross dressing and homosexuality in the entertainment industry, the reality of being gay in Japan is a far far different story.

True. I was quite surprised when my Japanese roommate, who has only arrived in the country quite recently (or let's say, less than a year ago) still gets shocked when she hears someone is gay. The extent of her reaction coming quite close to telling her that person is an alien or kicked a dog while walking on the street. She was also quite surprised gay people dared to walk the streets normally, and looked like normal people. I remember taking her to a gameshop here in the area and she was shocked that they allowed a gay person to stand behind the counter and work there like a normal person.

To be honest, I'm still shocked with how she thinks of gay people. She's a huge fan of Gackt and the Ouran High Host Club. I always thought you need to have at least some respect for gay people to be able to appreciate that sort of entertainment. Especially Ouran High School.

On topic though, I never knew they changed Birdo's gender. I've been calling him a "he" for as long as I can remember.

 

[CrystalShadow]

Even though Japan presents a seemingly open front on cross dressing and homosexuality in the entertainment industry, the reality of being gay in Japan is a far far different story.

True. (...)

To be honest, I'm still shocked with how she thinks of gay people. She's a huge fan of Gackt and the Ouran High Host Club. I always thought you need to have at least some respect for gay people to be able to appreciate that sort of entertainment. Especially Ouran High School.

On topic though, I never knew they changed Birdo's gender. I've been calling him a "he" for as long as I can remember.

I've seen sources which suggest this is an indirect western influence. I can't say how reliable the information is, but it seems to imply Japan was quite tolerant of homosexuality up until it started to pay attention to western culture in the late 1800's.
In fact, a surprising number of strange contradictions can apparently be traced back to American influence directly after the second world war.

A trans person is NOT automatically gay. (however you hope to define that... I mean, Homosexual means 'attracted to the same sex'. How can you make a meaningful statement about that when people often can't agree what sex you are? Is a MTF transsexual who is attracted to women a lesbian? Or not? That all depends on how you look at it.)

Ultimately the only thing you can do is accept the person in question knows their gender, and you simply take their word for it. It's not confusing at all, it's simply recognising cisgender privelige for what it is, and realising you don't have the right to decide someones gender for them. Once that is accepted, if a self identified woman is attracted only to men, they're straight. Nothing confusing about that.

A good point. I have a tendency to make things overly abstract (and ambiguous). A character trait of sorts. (I'm also indecisive, a lot of the time, go figure.)

Which is the problem for the trans community because we inherently deal with an incongruent sexual identity, and prejudices that cause even more confusion.
(not to mention that transitioning is a lengthy process, and from a physical perspective, during this period you most certainly have a blend of physical characteristics of both sexes, which makes the matter even more confusing than it already is.)

I argue that only the prejudices cause more confusion, because trans people can often be rendered unable to pursue relationships due to not being able to gauge the reaction of partners upon 'outing' ourselves. Our sexual identities are no less concrete than the identities of cisgender people, save in the case that a trans person is -also- genderqueer and so rejects the notion of concrete sexual/gender identities. Again, physical transition due to hormones is a matter of confusion only for those not going through the experience, and their opinions, bluntly, aren't relevant.

Mmm. I would agree with you here. Of course, I'm not discussing these things in an abstract sense, because they reflect my personal issues in being a trans person myself.
(The prospect of dealing with relationship issues in this context is perhaps the one thing I find most painful to even consider. And also where I'm most prone to getting into heated arguments with people...)

of course this is quite a tangent from a point we both agree on, and that I've tangented from so wildly as to actually edit out of your response. Simply accepting birdo as female, the 'censored US version' is infact more progressive than the article, which by its language, artificialises birdos gender, and asserts that it's 'really' male. That it's being applied to such a trivial, minor character is of no consequence, because it speaks of a larger prejudice only highlighted in this case, that should be confronted.

Yep. We can agree on that much, but if I'm understanding things correctly, it's because we actually know the issue at stake.
It doesn't appear that the author if this article noticed it though.

Always a little worrying when a prejudice runs so deep that it isn't even recognised as one to begin with.

 

[BobisOnlyBob]

This is why I hate androgyenous characters: I want to know are they men, women or gay men/women. Just own up and say "this character is gay," I won't judge for it.

I don't judge either, especially since I'm bisexual - but I find androgyny both fun and interesting, when it's done deliberately as opposed to censorship.

 

[Xerosch]

Sadly, 'Enchanted Arms' wasn't mentioned. The first three guys you see are all gay.

Without spoling too much, one of them fits the clichée while the other two are fairly discreet. But once you get through 3/4 of or finish the game, you can see how they all change and the subtext jumps at you.

 

[cobra_ky]

The truth is that the majority of kids still use the term "gay" as an insult and California, The captol of Homosexuality, voted for Prop 8.

While the major cities like San Francisco may be more accepting, there's a strong conservative population in the more rural areas of Northern California. I certainly wouldn't consider the entire state "the capital of homosexuality."

 

[cobra_ky]

It goes the other way around, too.

Anybody remember Poison from Final Fight?

She went from female to male during her trip to the US. Well, sorta...

she went from female to male during development, actually. Capcom was concerned about violence against women so they decided to just make her a tranny instead. She does go from pre-op to post-op in the U.S., and unfortunately that precluded her from showing up in SFIV.

 

[Andronicus]

Sadly, 'Enchanted Arms' wasn't mentioned. The first three guys you see are all gay.

Without spoling too much, one of them fits the clichée while the other two are fairly discreet. But once you get through 3/4 of or finish the game, you can see how they all change and the subtext jumps at you.

Gah, ninja'd.

I was surprised to see nobody mentioned this earlier. To tell the truth, I never knew they were all gay, because I only saw my sister playing it when she first got it, and just seeing Makoto put me off the game, so I never really paid attention to it afterwards. It didn't put me off in the sense that the thought of a gay in a videogame sickened me, but in the sense that he was depicted in such an awful, stereotypical, almost mocking fashion. He constantly hits on one particular character and pulls nearly every gay cliche out of the book that you can think of.

It really was appalling the way he was characterised. I know several gay people, and at least one that hits on me, but never like this.

I didn't think the other two would turn out to be gay though...

 

[LeonLethality]

But by painting us all with the same brush, you're doing the exact same thing as those who oppose homosexual rights. Just sayin'.

woah woah I wasnt really generalizing saying everyone in america as the article said I was addressing the media, the higher ups why would they bo so against it? why are they making people (well at least the impressional people who will believe anything they are told) think homosexuality is so wrong or at least trying to keep them away

 

[Smokescreen]

But by painting us all with the same brush, you're doing the exact same thing as those who oppose homosexual rights. Just sayin'.

woah woah I wasnt really generalizing saying everyone in america as the article said I was addressing the media, the higher ups why would they bo so against it? why are they making people (well at least the impressional people who will believe anything they are told) think homosexuality is so wrong or at least trying to keep them away

I see. But your language was imprecise and in exchanges such as this it pays to go the extra distance, you know?

As to your second question; 'they' aren't making anyone do anything. The presentation of homosexuals and homosexuality in the media has not only been on the rise, but been more nuanced than ever. (Again with the caveat that there's still a long way to go) But people generally fear what they don't know or understand and in a culture with a strongly Puritanical base, sex is something that is there to be feared not celebrated.

So there are biases, sadly. And sometimes those biases are right; those games could cause an outroar leading to a boycott and the company loses money. For companies; it's about the money.