222: Too Gay for the U.S.A.
- Thread starter Andrew Webster
- Start date
Recommended Videos
Hey Gatti,
Nicely said: 'There is plenty of female nudity in games, but throw a homosexual/transgender man or a silly penis in the mix and it's utterly forbidden.'
This reminds me of...
When I bought Watchmen and watched this great movie...
I did have to rewind it for a moment...
I thought 'Did I just really see Doc. Manhattan's genitalia?'...
Yes I did!
I was like wow...
Did I miss something?
Do are we nowadays allowed to realize men have that part for real?
Did movieworld grow up to become more adultlike?
Has nothing to do with the gay-community but it is about a taboo being broken...
Cool, there's hope left!
Taboos can still be broken! ; )
Nicely said: 'There is plenty of female nudity in games, but throw a homosexual/transgender man or a silly penis in the mix and it's utterly forbidden.'
This reminds me of...
When I bought Watchmen and watched this great movie...
I did have to rewind it for a moment...
I thought 'Did I just really see Doc. Manhattan's genitalia?'...
Yes I did!
I was like wow...
Did I miss something?
Do are we nowadays allowed to realize men have that part for real?
Did movieworld grow up to become more adultlike?
Has nothing to do with the gay-community but it is about a taboo being broken...
Cool, there's hope left!
Taboos can still be broken! ; )
I always forget how interesting it is to watch a new medium going through these birth-pangs. Was it similar with film?
I actually knew this for a long time about Birdo. I wrote an essay for school about it. But this just leads to the second part of my original Thesis. Since we know that Birdo is a guy now, what does that make him and Yoshi? I have heard in the past people say that Yoshi is a guy but it?s a dragon/dinosaur that lays eggs. Only the females of both species can lay eggs and they cannot asexually reproduce. Now the problem with Yoshi?s and Birdo's gender issues(Don?t say Godzilla because that was radioactive mutation and don?t say Jurassic park because that was gene splicing with a toad that can reproduce asexually. I thought that through) that makes either Yoshi and Birdo gay lovers or a standard relationship of man and woman. So Birdo being a cross-dressing guy is only the first part. In Mario games before I have seen the two hand in hand cheek to cheek with hearts above their heads so we know they love each other. So this is a lesbian relationship, a gay relationship, or a male and female with the male being a cross dresser. Either way I still think Birdo and Yoshi are sexy
My point was that it was US censorship that did that change. Yes, it was Capcom's idea. Capcom USA, not Capcom Japan.cobra_ky said:she went from female to male during development, actually. Capcom was concerned about violence against women so they decided to just make her a tranny instead. She does go from pre-op to post-op in the U.S., and unfortunately that precluded her from showing up in SFIV.Scrythe said:It goes the other way around, too.
Anybody remember Poison from Final Fight?
She went from female to male during her trip to the US. Well, sorta...
And Poison isn't one of the more... memorable side characters from Street Fighter anyways, otherwise I'd love to see her, Hugo and the Guy/Cody/Hagger trio in SSIV.
I always thought that they changed Poison to be a tranny after people got squeamish about beating using male leads to beat the fuck out of a woman. Kind of a lose-lose situation for the people in charge of the game at the time, now that I think about it.
EDIT: Turns out I was correct. I should've read more of the replies.
EDIT2: This article is praising Japan for its openness to homosexuality and I wholeheartedly agree, but keep in mind they still have some issues in their games that deal with racism and prejudice. Examples include stereotyping against people with blonde hair, green eyes, or dark skin, as well as showing hatred to people not from their country. Here's hoping that our problems with homosexuality and their problems with racism and prejudice are solved soon so we can become better as a species.
I remembered reading Birdo's description in the manual when I was a teen. I thought it was kind of silly and stupid, but I didn't give it much more thought beyond that.
Of course, you can read what you want into a young teenager thinking a brief, one-sentence description about the gender confusion of a fictional video game character being "silly and stupid", I guess. :?
Fable did seem to do it pretty well; there were a variety of gender orientations in the game, and you could do pretty much whatever you wanted.
Of course, you can read what you want into a young teenager thinking a brief, one-sentence description about the gender confusion of a fictional video game character being "silly and stupid", I guess. :?
That was my thought -- there aren't a whole lot of games where any sexuality is really presented well, because it just doesn't fit with the game play. Even with as much praise as the love scene for Mass Effect got, I still felt like it was "bolted on" to the rest of the game. Tastefully done, sure. Integral part of the story? Meh, I didn't feel it.PaulH said:
Fable did seem to do it pretty well; there were a variety of gender orientations in the game, and you could do pretty much whatever you wanted.
Okay, I think this is a sign The Escapist needs to hire some writers that do better research, or better yet stay away from politics in general.
To be brutally honest, plenty of "gay" titles make it to the USA, it's just that we do not allow AO material to be sold in game stores. This is why we do not have games featuring "oiled up men fighting giant penis monsters" on the shelves of Gamestop. Heck, I've been railing about the effective censorship of stuff like that for a long time. The way it works in the US is that Gamestop and other stores are pressured into not carrying AO material, in some cases that pressure includes things like local liscencing affecting what people can sell in differant areas as a sexual explicit video game is viewed the same as a sexually explicit (porn) movie and a town only allows "Adult" shops in specific areas with blinds over the windows or whatever... which would of course cut down on the "out of the mall/shopping center" business of game stores.
If you want adult games from Japan, including Yaoi, all you need to do is check some adult websites, or import sites like "J-list". They sell tons of them. What's more I can't help but think this article has to be a joke (or rabble rousing) since it was announced here when a Japanese porn game manufacturer closed it's sales/sites to the US over "Rapelay".
When dealing with things like lesbian fighting game characters, look carefully towards our censorship policies rather than so called "homophobia" (despite my sentiments on gay men). Generally speaking they aren't going to let you be explicit with pretty much anything for the most part. Someone puts in a joke of a sex scene like "Mass Effect" and it's huge news and a level of contreversy the cowardly industry wants to avoid. Plus let's be honest, the US is still relatively free (overall, if not on this subject), look at say Australia and Germany who have intimidated companies like Valve and Bethesda. Then look at France which stopped that metal covered "sex" book released by Madonna many years ago.
Plus, to be honest invoking "Final Fantasy VII" is probably a bad move. That entire sequence was a joke on a number of fetishes (such as when you snoop the windows in the brothel). What's more not all crossdresses are gay. The whole thing was relatively ambigious.
On the other hand "Enchanted Arms" a far less popular game includes a flamboyantly gay character who plays a key role, and whose attitudes are important to the storyline.
Persona 2 (3 in Japan) featured the abillity to have a gay "soul mate".
Of course it gets more attention to mention Final Fantasy VII than other games which present a better example.
When looking at things like locked characters in "Streets Of Rage" and such, consider that at the time "Codes" and "Gamesharks" were a big deal, especially in the US. Companies seemed to lock content either to help sell the 'Sharks, or because having codes would attract attention to the game in the US Market (sort of like a recent arguement about easy achievements, though I think there was more validity to the code theory).
I mean sure, when it comes to gay men (and only gay men) I don't care for them in the media. If I felt there was a censorship campaign, it would cause problems by pitting two of my strongly held beliefs against each other, since of course whether or not I like it, it's currently not illegal to be a gay man. I however do not think this is the case.
If anything the media (and current goverment) is about as pro-gay as it's going to get, there are gay-themed TV shows and everything ("Queer Eye" being a paticularly well known example, followed perhaps by "The L Word").
It all comes down to sexual censorship, well that and the fact that most Yaoi titles are generally low quality (like most Japanese sex games). Sure, gamestop doesn't carry them, but go searching around the infected bowels of the internet and you'll find low grade japanese video game porn translated for the US covering pretty much any fetish you can imagine. Heck, years ago Something Awful reviewd some of these games as jokes. There is even one that while not "gay" is all about girls with problems going to the bathroom being raped. It's called "Water Closet".
Go hit J-list and other sites before writing articles like this and more or less claiming it's not out there.... and honestly, don't attack censorship on a specifically gay front. When you get down to it is a general issue with sexuality in the US. The first step towards anything is going to be to get chains like Gamestop to grow a pair and fight for the right to carry AO titles right there at their current locations. Then you can worry about the specifics.
Until then just about anything sexual, no matter what your "kink" requires you to deal with adult sites, sleazy importers, or fansubbers.
>>>----Therumancer--->
To be brutally honest, plenty of "gay" titles make it to the USA, it's just that we do not allow AO material to be sold in game stores. This is why we do not have games featuring "oiled up men fighting giant penis monsters" on the shelves of Gamestop. Heck, I've been railing about the effective censorship of stuff like that for a long time. The way it works in the US is that Gamestop and other stores are pressured into not carrying AO material, in some cases that pressure includes things like local liscencing affecting what people can sell in differant areas as a sexual explicit video game is viewed the same as a sexually explicit (porn) movie and a town only allows "Adult" shops in specific areas with blinds over the windows or whatever... which would of course cut down on the "out of the mall/shopping center" business of game stores.
If you want adult games from Japan, including Yaoi, all you need to do is check some adult websites, or import sites like "J-list". They sell tons of them. What's more I can't help but think this article has to be a joke (or rabble rousing) since it was announced here when a Japanese porn game manufacturer closed it's sales/sites to the US over "Rapelay".
When dealing with things like lesbian fighting game characters, look carefully towards our censorship policies rather than so called "homophobia" (despite my sentiments on gay men). Generally speaking they aren't going to let you be explicit with pretty much anything for the most part. Someone puts in a joke of a sex scene like "Mass Effect" and it's huge news and a level of contreversy the cowardly industry wants to avoid. Plus let's be honest, the US is still relatively free (overall, if not on this subject), look at say Australia and Germany who have intimidated companies like Valve and Bethesda. Then look at France which stopped that metal covered "sex" book released by Madonna many years ago.
Plus, to be honest invoking "Final Fantasy VII" is probably a bad move. That entire sequence was a joke on a number of fetishes (such as when you snoop the windows in the brothel). What's more not all crossdresses are gay. The whole thing was relatively ambigious.
On the other hand "Enchanted Arms" a far less popular game includes a flamboyantly gay character who plays a key role, and whose attitudes are important to the storyline.
Persona 2 (3 in Japan) featured the abillity to have a gay "soul mate".
Of course it gets more attention to mention Final Fantasy VII than other games which present a better example.
When looking at things like locked characters in "Streets Of Rage" and such, consider that at the time "Codes" and "Gamesharks" were a big deal, especially in the US. Companies seemed to lock content either to help sell the 'Sharks, or because having codes would attract attention to the game in the US Market (sort of like a recent arguement about easy achievements, though I think there was more validity to the code theory).
I mean sure, when it comes to gay men (and only gay men) I don't care for them in the media. If I felt there was a censorship campaign, it would cause problems by pitting two of my strongly held beliefs against each other, since of course whether or not I like it, it's currently not illegal to be a gay man. I however do not think this is the case.
If anything the media (and current goverment) is about as pro-gay as it's going to get, there are gay-themed TV shows and everything ("Queer Eye" being a paticularly well known example, followed perhaps by "The L Word").
It all comes down to sexual censorship, well that and the fact that most Yaoi titles are generally low quality (like most Japanese sex games). Sure, gamestop doesn't carry them, but go searching around the infected bowels of the internet and you'll find low grade japanese video game porn translated for the US covering pretty much any fetish you can imagine. Heck, years ago Something Awful reviewd some of these games as jokes. There is even one that while not "gay" is all about girls with problems going to the bathroom being raped. It's called "Water Closet".
Go hit J-list and other sites before writing articles like this and more or less claiming it's not out there.... and honestly, don't attack censorship on a specifically gay front. When you get down to it is a general issue with sexuality in the US. The first step towards anything is going to be to get chains like Gamestop to grow a pair and fight for the right to carry AO titles right there at their current locations. Then you can worry about the specifics.
Until then just about anything sexual, no matter what your "kink" requires you to deal with adult sites, sleazy importers, or fansubbers.
>>>----Therumancer--->
I always thought the Metal Gear Solid series handled homosexuality in a way that was respectful and mature. In Metal Gear Solid 2, you find out a character that has died (a Denzel Washington-style marine commander, no less) was actually the lover of a character still living, and the father of another--both of whom are still grieving when you encounter them.
In Metal Gear Solid 3, you have the choice of eliminating a Russian lieutenant for the purpose of disguising yourself as him. His lover later picks you out as a fraud (albeit by not-so-subtle means) and, should you have chosen to kill the lieutenant, swears revenge on you. Additionally, if you don the lieutenant's mask during your penultimate confrontation with his lover, he responds appropriately: a combination of stunned awe, followed by disgust and anger.
All of these show that series developer Hideo Kojima possesses a keen insight lacking in many writers: create characters who are interesting and unique--and happen to be gay, thank you very much--rather than setting out to make a Gay Character(TM).
We see the same thing with black and female characters. When developers set out to make a Black Character(TM), we get Cole from Gears of War: who speaks in blunt ebonics, goes 'woo!', says 'baby' a great deal, spontaneously breaks out into rap sessions, was a professional football player...etc...etc...
When developers set out to make a Female Character, we get...well, take a look around. You've got your helpless female protagonists (see also "dude looks like a lady") your icy femme fatales (nine tenths of all games being put out today) and lest we forget, hyper-violent no-mind-for-writing-a-woman testosterone-I-mean-estrogen men-with-boobs, who snarl and shoot stuff and other Tough Things because Women Are Tough Too ("Guys, this is unique, right? Because there's a chick and she does stuff?")
Maybe the solution is for more companies to start hiring real writers (ala Ubisoft and Valve) rather than promoting their dialogue-tree-vomiting interns.
More likely--and probable--is that developers ought to work at diversifying those aspects of their workforce which have say in the portrayal of characters, to include women, homosexuals, and other oft-misrepresented minorities.
Or we could just keep letting 20-something white heterosexual males do everything. Cuz guys like me are the best and brightest at everything, amiright?
(I am not right)
In Metal Gear Solid 3, you have the choice of eliminating a Russian lieutenant for the purpose of disguising yourself as him. His lover later picks you out as a fraud (albeit by not-so-subtle means) and, should you have chosen to kill the lieutenant, swears revenge on you. Additionally, if you don the lieutenant's mask during your penultimate confrontation with his lover, he responds appropriately: a combination of stunned awe, followed by disgust and anger.
All of these show that series developer Hideo Kojima possesses a keen insight lacking in many writers: create characters who are interesting and unique--and happen to be gay, thank you very much--rather than setting out to make a Gay Character(TM).
We see the same thing with black and female characters. When developers set out to make a Black Character(TM), we get Cole from Gears of War: who speaks in blunt ebonics, goes 'woo!', says 'baby' a great deal, spontaneously breaks out into rap sessions, was a professional football player...etc...etc...
When developers set out to make a Female Character, we get...well, take a look around. You've got your helpless female protagonists (see also "dude looks like a lady") your icy femme fatales (nine tenths of all games being put out today) and lest we forget, hyper-violent no-mind-for-writing-a-woman testosterone-I-mean-estrogen men-with-boobs, who snarl and shoot stuff and other Tough Things because Women Are Tough Too ("Guys, this is unique, right? Because there's a chick and she does stuff?")
Maybe the solution is for more companies to start hiring real writers (ala Ubisoft and Valve) rather than promoting their dialogue-tree-vomiting interns.
More likely--and probable--is that developers ought to work at diversifying those aspects of their workforce which have say in the portrayal of characters, to include women, homosexuals, and other oft-misrepresented minorities.
Or we could just keep letting 20-something white heterosexual males do everything. Cuz guys like me are the best and brightest at everything, amiright?
(I am not right)
First off, people didn't already understand that Tingle was either gay or bat-shit bonkers?
Secondly I have a new phrase in my vocabulary, the Japanese term for "shitty game" after reading that article.
Lastly I will make my only comment this month on the whole gay/lesbian thing (after all I found out yesterday it is LGBT awareness month and that apparently means they get to stand on the corners of the university's campus in drag and ask for money) and this is something I will never EVER come to understand, and that's maybe because I'm not part of the culture surrounding it. If the homosexual populace wants so badly to be treated as normal people why do they keep insisting that they also be treated as a racial minority? To better explain: they seem to want to in public be treated normally, but on paper be classified as different so as to receive special treatment.
That's my two cents on the subject.
Secondly I have a new phrase in my vocabulary, the Japanese term for "shitty game" after reading that article.
Lastly I will make my only comment this month on the whole gay/lesbian thing (after all I found out yesterday it is LGBT awareness month and that apparently means they get to stand on the corners of the university's campus in drag and ask for money) and this is something I will never EVER come to understand, and that's maybe because I'm not part of the culture surrounding it. If the homosexual populace wants so badly to be treated as normal people why do they keep insisting that they also be treated as a racial minority? To better explain: they seem to want to in public be treated normally, but on paper be classified as different so as to receive special treatment.
That's my two cents on the subject.
All the more proof that gays should be allowed in the military...Korth13 said:
Speaking of which, I think it's a bit of a shame that 300 didn't dispel the "gay=weak and effeminate" misconception with a bit of traditional Spartan male bonding... Having said that, the film wasn't long on historical accuracy, given that I don't think the Persians actually deployed Ogres at Thermopylae, or indeed any other battle.
