236: Gordon Freeman, Private Eye
- Thread starter Craig Owens
- Start date
Recommended Videos
Anybody who has spent more than 15 minutes in a creative writing workshop knows full well that if you're "telling" a story instead of showing it, then you're doing it wrong. All good storytelling is immersive; a story, a show, a movie, a song, a play, a game, or whatever should immerse its audience in the world its attempting to build. If the books you read aren't doing this for you, you're reading crap books. The article dances around this topic without explicitly saying so, but boils down to how good Valve is at showing without telling, and I tend to agree.The Youth Counselor said:
Like a good book, every replay of HL2 (and to a lesser degree HL) reveals a world replete with subtle details (if you care to look for them) that simply make it more real, more immersive for the audience without having them shoved in your face.
That said, SMB and Doom (the original version; I haven't played the remake) are spectacularly bad examples if you want to talk about games with depth. I can't think of two more shallow games. The walls of the Mushroom Kingdom are not scrawled with graffiti about the ramifications of blue-collar plumbers climbing the social ladder. "It's-a me! Mario!" Does not make for a compelling story. Imps don't wander around complaining about the quality of cafeteria food in Hell.
Bravo! An excellent article on VALVe's mastery of diegetic space [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diegesis]!Craig Owens said:
In film, the "diegesis" is the space or dimension in which the story takes place. How well this space is established for the viewer can be directly linked to their 'suspension of disbelieve', or their acceptance of the space. This is crucial in video games because this acceptance leads to ultimate immersion, when the play feels they are actually inhabiting the world of the game they are exploring. This is the magic that makes the Half-Life series so wonderfully unique.
Craig Owens said:
In my experience, the use of props to tell stories in video games can be very effective. Rather than directly telling the player the story, they allow the observant player to piece it together on their own. When you figure out something on your own, it has a much bigger impact.
I wish more developers would consider using this method of story telling. Bethesda seemed to try this in Fallout 3, and I say the game was much better for it. I've heard people say that it had little story, but the story was all around you. By taking the time to examine your environment rather than just zooming through it in search of loot, you could find many props being used to tell stories. For example, at the entrance to one of the subways I found a skeleton cradling a much smaller skeleton in it's hands, with a battered baby carriage lying next to it. What this suggests is obvious, yet having me figure it out on my own through observation made it a much more effective image.
I wish more developers would consider using this method of story telling. Bethesda seemed to try this in Fallout 3, and I say the game was much better for it. I've heard people say that it had little story, but the story was all around you. By taking the time to examine your environment rather than just zooming through it in search of loot, you could find many props being used to tell stories. For example, at the entrance to one of the subways I found a skeleton cradling a much smaller skeleton in it's hands, with a battered baby carriage lying next to it. What this suggests is obvious, yet having me figure it out on my own through observation made it a much more effective image.
I think this is an excellent way to describe this method of story telling. To many games rely on cut-scenes to provide plot exposition. More developers should try to let the player figure out some parts of the story on their own.boholikeu said:
But think of these games in their own time. When SMB first came out, games were often played against black backgrounds with spartan graphics. SMB was one of the first great games to bring a story experience into people's family rooms. Mario was someone you could identify with, and the hours spent guiding him on his quest to save the princess were more personal than any game most people had played before.x84jdh said:
And the graphics of Doom, at the time, made it a phenomenon. It was a space to be explored and enjoyed, unlike the flat lifeless rooms of Wolfenstein 3D or the decidedly external experience of 2D platformers. It wasn't until Half-Life was released four years later that someone managed to successfully infuse a virtual space with a compelling story. Both games were the high-water mark for their time. Half-Life still stands as one of the high-water marks for our time in game development, and for my money it is still the most immersive experience offered in a game. The seamless integration of technology and personal experience is phenomenal.
I can't argue with your personal experience of the SMB except to say that the hours spent shooting at the damn dog on the other side of the cartridge were far more personal to me than dodging Hammer Bros. That's not to say that Duck Hunt has much real depth either, although you could easily argue that the characterization of the dog was far in advance of anything SMB had going for it.300lb. Samoan said:
I genuinely don't understand how you can argue for a "story experience" in SMB. It has a sort-of premise that's never explained, and that's about it. Metal Gear (two years later) offers an actual (though crude) story. Just because SMB was an early console game doesn't give it any more depth than it actually had. I'm not knocking on the fun of the game -- SMB is a classic and rightfully so -- but reading into your own experiences doesn't offer any additional depth to the content, because there really isn't one. Mario isn't on a "quest" because SMB doesn't offer any of the traditional "quest" tropes except for the bare fact that he's looking for something.
While I agree that Doom was visually stunning and a huge landmark game for the genre, it's still not "deep" in any meaningful way, though more immersive than SMB. Zero plot, zero character, zero world building. If you're looking for a contemporary shooter with depth, try System Shock.300lb. Samoan said:
SMB and Doom are important games, sure. I enjoyed them. I got frustrated when my ass was handed to me by a demon or I liked running a chain gun or finding a warp tube. That doesn't mean the content was in any way shape or form "deep." There will be no articles written about the Mushroom Kingdom circa-1985 because there's nothing to write. There will be no character studies about Sgt. Noname from Doom because there's no character there. Video games can be deep and can be great examples of immersive storytelling. These particular games are simply very bad examples.
With all due respect (I really truly loved Lost Odyssey) We're looking at storytelling being done in a completely fresh and new way (thanks to the interactive medium of videogames), versus in-game short-stories with beautiful backgrounds.Onyx Oblivion said:
Don't get me wrong, they were effective. Some were definitely tearjerkers. But they're not at all informed by the medium that they're apart of. Telling an interesting and subtle story in the language of the videogame is what's being praised here (because it's a relatively new frontier to communicate a story).
I never said they were "deep". And "deep" is a horrible term to use, it has no real meaning of its own. If you specifically mean narrative depth, of course they are lacking - my point is that these were the first immersive game experiences for most people.x84jdh said:
What most people overlook about Half-Life (and Portal) is the fact that any game could have told that story, but it's the sense of immersion that enables it to be conveyed on the level that it is. A word tells you what's there, a cut scene shows it, but interaction allows you to gather the meaning intuitively. Compared to playing Pac-Man, SMB was a very "deep" experience and compared to SMB, Doom was phenomenally "deep" - for the first time you could walk around a room and explore it for yourself, discovering keys and secret passages. Once Half-Life came out and the exploration of that space was being used to convey a compelling story, Doom and everything before it naturally became obsolete.
Seriously. Here's what you do: first, smash his TV. Then kidnap him and abandon him in the middle of a large city. If he goes crying to the police and they bring him home, do it again. He won't be fixed until he can find his own way home without being spoon-fed instructions. Pro-tip: don't actually do this. If he goes crying to the police, you go to pound-me-in-the-ass-prison.[/obvious]Mr Ink 5000 said:DJPirtu said:
your friend makes me sick
What the hell??? The entire half life series has been slightly entertaining at best, and portal had shit for story line! I loved the game portal because it was fun NOT because it was full of depth. Its like saying Mario Bros. had a revolutionary storyline and amazing character development. No...it...fucking...didnt.
Im getting pritty sick about how Escapist Magazine has been promoting Valve like they were married. How old are these damn games anyways?? I've been hearing about how amazing half life 2 was for what seems like years. You really need to start writing about something a little more recent, unless your boss works for Valve. Then by all means continue deepthrouting your pride.
t(''t)
Im getting pritty sick about how Escapist Magazine has been promoting Valve like they were married. How old are these damn games anyways?? I've been hearing about how amazing half life 2 was for what seems like years. You really need to start writing about something a little more recent, unless your boss works for Valve. Then by all means continue deepthrouting your pride.
t(''t)
There's no doubt that the writer has described some of the very effective storytelling/world building techniques used in HL2 and Portal. However I do have to say if they leave me with a 'explosion/white out/stupid monologue by an interdimensional salaryman' one more time they'll have well and truly revoked their storytelling credentials. Weaksauce!
One thing to point out though is that Valve do make use of conventional storytelling in HL2. The developer's commentary talks about how they use 'vistas' and 'gates' to limit where the player can go/guide where they want to look. All the while they manage to make these sequences unobtrusive (for most people), even on repeat playthroughs. Now that's good design.
One thing to point out though is that Valve do make use of conventional storytelling in HL2. The developer's commentary talks about how they use 'vistas' and 'gates' to limit where the player can go/guide where they want to look. All the while they manage to make these sequences unobtrusive (for most people), even on repeat playthroughs. Now that's good design.
A well-written and spot-on article that makes me want to share my own little HL2 "moment of epiphany".
Not long after you've traversed roughly fifteen skajillion miles of canals in your little speedboat and come upon the Resistance outpost that finally arms your vehicle so you can take on that pesky helicopter, there's a severe left turn in the canal accompanied by a small cul-de-sac where two Civil Protection officers are standing. It only takes a quick blast from your plasma cannon to bring them down, and it's easy to just ride on to the next part- but I took theroad drainage ditch less traveled, and stopped the boat to have a look. After dealing with a headcrab/zombie ambush with a grenade, I took a look around.
The cul-de-sac was obviously used as a miniature outpost/rest stop by the Resistance. A makeshift watchtower held a mattress and canned goods in a milk crate, a windmill just above the lip probably supplied power to nearby equipment, and the bodies of two civilians lay sprawled about, testament to the Combine's ruthlessness. Unseen, above the walls, a wind chime clanked in the breeze.
It was there, in that secluded hideaway that in the end just hadn't been hidden enough, in the culvert of a canal that held shallow puddles of toxic waste instead of rushing waters, I listened to the lonely breeze and the melancholy tinkling of the wind chime. And it hit me with full force just how absolutely alien the world had become, how outmatched this silent theoretical physicist in a hopped-up spacesuit was by this situation, with hideously-transformed innocents lunging out of pools of radioactive waste to claw at him, and jack-booted lackeys of a cruel alien occupation whose grasp spanned entire dimensions hunting him down. I felt like a tiny little orange-suited speck.
It was a hell of a feeling.
Not long after you've traversed roughly fifteen skajillion miles of canals in your little speedboat and come upon the Resistance outpost that finally arms your vehicle so you can take on that pesky helicopter, there's a severe left turn in the canal accompanied by a small cul-de-sac where two Civil Protection officers are standing. It only takes a quick blast from your plasma cannon to bring them down, and it's easy to just ride on to the next part- but I took the
The cul-de-sac was obviously used as a miniature outpost/rest stop by the Resistance. A makeshift watchtower held a mattress and canned goods in a milk crate, a windmill just above the lip probably supplied power to nearby equipment, and the bodies of two civilians lay sprawled about, testament to the Combine's ruthlessness. Unseen, above the walls, a wind chime clanked in the breeze.
It was there, in that secluded hideaway that in the end just hadn't been hidden enough, in the culvert of a canal that held shallow puddles of toxic waste instead of rushing waters, I listened to the lonely breeze and the melancholy tinkling of the wind chime. And it hit me with full force just how absolutely alien the world had become, how outmatched this silent theoretical physicist in a hopped-up spacesuit was by this situation, with hideously-transformed innocents lunging out of pools of radioactive waste to claw at him, and jack-booted lackeys of a cruel alien occupation whose grasp spanned entire dimensions hunting him down. I felt like a tiny little orange-suited speck.
It was a hell of a feeling.
I will say, sir, that you are entirely welcome to your own opinion (which is what this is, truly). However you will very quickly learn that this opinion is the minority here.DBlack said:
Try reading the article again, and maybe even a number of the comments here. It's all explained and justified.DBlack said:
Otherwise, thanks for soiling what was an enjoyable thread.
I have nothing to add to the discussion, other than looking forward to finally finishing HL2 even more.
Bless you for sharing this, I would never have come across this I think any other way.Onyx Oblivion said:
In Portal, I can still remember exploring behind the walls, seeing the scrawl on the room, the empty water and food containers, and get shivers down my back as if that person who put all that there was still around, watching me, hoping I might succeed where others failed. With HL2 I more felt a sense of loneliness seeing the ruins, knowing that there was someone there, but they are most certainly dead. Still just as strong a feeling.
Well this was a good read // I like the bit on page one about the house off highway 17, I've never noticed it before but its something Im now goin back to check
-M
-M