30 US Troops killed by Taliban in single attack.

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cryogeist

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Apr 16, 2010
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SemiHumanTarget said:
My question is: Why were they cramming 30 frikkin' guys in one helicopter? I'm proud of our military and the guys on the ground out there have some serious balls, but time and time again the US military's command structure has failed the people serving big time.

I highly suggest the book "Black Hearts" by Jim Frederick for numerous examples of serious command fuckups.
this is the third time i say this
the chinook helicopter can fit 30 or so guys with no problems it's a big friggen chopper
 

Shock and Awe

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Sep 6, 2008
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Kargathia said:
Shock and Awe said:
Kargathia said:
Shock and Awe said:
Kargathia said:
Sizzle Montyjing said:
zombie goat fetish said:
That's the bloody truth of war folks, people die.
Yeah, but usually not in this large a number.
Actually, that's sort of depending on your perspective. When looking more than two months back it's more akin to "usually they don't die in these small numbers".
Well for the US military incidents this large haven't happened regularly since Vietnam.
US soldiers don't have a monopoly on dying in a war you know. And I hope you're not suggesting that it only matters when US soldiers die.
Not at all, Im just saying thats why this is such a bid deal for Americans, this kind of loss of life in single incidents has almost been unheard of since Vietnam. Thats why the incident in Mogadishu was such a bid deal 20 years ago, even then Americans have gotten used to the lack of fatalities, especially out special operations troops.
I'm not American, so I can't place any special importance on the fact that 24 US citizens died. I neither believe that this debate is about the impact of their deaths on US operations in Afghanistan.
I can only view this in the same light as any other incident involving human soldiers.

And I still maintain that if we consider 30 deaths a big blow then we've made a big step forwards from the times where battles meant thousands died on a single day, and nobody really gave a shit.
Well thats true, but those 24 were also some of the best soldiers in the world, so losing 24 of them at once, while not a strategic loss, is a really fucking bad day for SOCOM.
 

Shock and Awe

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cyrogeist said:
SemiHumanTarget said:
My question is: Why were they cramming 30 frikkin' guys in one helicopter? I'm proud of our military and the guys on the ground out there have some serious balls, but time and time again the US military's command structure has failed the people serving big time.

I highly suggest the book "Black Hearts" by Jim Frederick for numerous examples of serious command fuckups.
this is the third time i say this
the chinook helicopter can fit 30 or so guys with no problems it's a big friggen chopper

 

SemiHumanTarget

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Apr 4, 2011
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That doesn't answer the question at all. The chinook is also used as a resupply helicopter. It's primary role is not just transporting troops and there's no reason to have it filled to capacity with men.

Military doctrine usually strictly dictates how many people can occupy vehicles and checkpoints at a given time under given circumstances. While I am sure you've been waiting to wow people with your military knowledge, the size and shape of the helicopter says nothing about how many people should reasonably be occupying it.
 

cryogeist

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SemiHumanTarget said:
That doesn't answer the question at all. The chinook is also used as a resupply helicopter. It's primary role is not just transporting troops and there's no reason to have it filled to capacity with men.

Military doctrine usually strictly dictates how many people can occupy vehicles and checkpoints at a given time under given circumstances. While I am sure you've been waiting to wow people with your military knowledge, the size and shape of the helicopter says nothing about how many people should reasonably be occupying it.
ok so you're saying they should risk multiple helicopters insted of one?
yup let's send 5 with a higher risk of getting hit when they can all fit into one
sure the guy who hit them got a lucky shot but there was a low chance if they were useing an RPG to actualy hit
 

Swedmarine

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Mar 15, 2011
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Bunnymarn said:
Can I ask something; would you still feel compelled to create a thread or even comment on this event if it had been 30 Taliban or Afghani civilians?
I would very much like to hear the answer to this question.
 

Jodah

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Aug 2, 2008
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Everyone talking crap about the war, you do realize this is Afganistan not Iraq. This is the war that started because the Taliban attacked us. They struck first. We didn't invade for oil or anything. We attacked because there are two buildings missing from the New York skyline.
 

Shock and Awe

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SemiHumanTarget said:
That doesn't answer the question at all. The chinook is also used as a resupply helicopter. It's primary role is not just transporting troops and there's no reason to have it filled to capacity with men.

Military doctrine usually strictly dictates how many people can occupy vehicles and checkpoints at a given time under given circumstances. While I am sure you've been waiting to wow people with your military knowledge, the size and shape of the helicopter says nothing about how many people should reasonably be occupying it.
Its simply more efficient, plus, you don't know the circumstances. Maybe the LZ was to small for multiple helicopters and having one just running around risks more helos and flight crews. As a general rule, you risk as few people as possible.
 

dyre

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Mar 30, 2011
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imahobbit4062 said:
There are way too many ignorant people in this thread. If you don't care about the war, or soldiers. Why bother posting? To look like a complete dick to everyone? Good job, pricks.

OT: 30 is a high number in modern conflicts, sad news indeed, especially for some of Americas Elite troops.
+1

Yeah, leave it to assholes at Escapist to piss on the dead in an effort to look cool.
 

Tdc2182

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duncants said:
Sizzle Montyjing said:
Mr.K. said:
It's war, people signed up to kill and be killed, this is just part of the process.
To me it's only tragic when civilians get involved, i.e. Oslo is worse, far far worse.
I'm not comparing this to the Oslo attacks, but it's only tragic when it's civilians?
You sir, disgust me, you may not like that, but i don't understand how you can say that.
I don't say that often.
The word tragic implies that a group of innocent individuals was harmed, since the people getting killed were soldiers whom are basically killers in employment of the American government. It's hard to feel sorry for people who are somewhere they have no business being in the first place and have (probably) murdered a lot of people themselves.
Well, it's very clear you know jack shit about the war.
 

Jimmybobjr

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Aug 3, 2010
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Someone died?

AT WAR?

GASP!

OT: Things like this were bound to happen. When you send an army of men into a foregn county that is in civil war, people die. It just so happens, that 30 people died at once. People should be expecting this. And although, i do feel really bad for those men and theyre familys, i still think its time that the American Government get a new perspective on the wars in the Middle East.

But thats not going to happen.
 

LetalisK

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May 5, 2010
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Um...was anyone else a little surprised, perhaps a little impressed, that 30 dead is the largest single loss of life?
 

Wedgetail122

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Jul 13, 2011
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well,there are alot of factors at play here, basically, a chinook can be brought down by a few AK bullets in the right place, so an RPG can do massive dammage, as seen by a battle in Iraq, where 2 chinooks were shot down on a snowy peak, both the origanal chopper, and the chopper of the US Army Rangers sent to rescue them, (sounds a little bit like a repeat of Black Hawk Down eh)but whether it was a real attack or not is unknown, here in Australia we had an incident with the news reporting a black hawk with SASR personel (Australian Special Forces) being shot down, when it turned out to be an accident which the taliban claimed responsibility for,so the details are unclear or not, its even weirder that 20 of these men who dies are SEALs, the same men who took down Osama, a twist of fate, or a leak in intellegence?, once again the issues are unknown, now whether you agree with the war or not, you must remember that these re 30, young, well trained men, who gave up their lives for something that they personally believed in, it IS a tragedy to loose such men who had families waiting at home for them, infact its a tradgedy to loose anyone,whether it be 70 innocent dead at the hands of a phsycotic madman in norway, or the deaths in conflict at the hands of an enemy, too fighting strong for what they believe in (im NOT refering to islam here), my condolences go across to everyone across the world who has been affected byt he current events, the wars, and the global disasters, I think a qoute from general patton also applies to the situation, "it is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died, rather we should thank god that such men lived." good to see everyone taking this topic maturely