7 year old girl shot dead while selling some lemonade

[thiosk]

The underground lemonade trade is a dirty business. She was selling in known Limoncello territory-- those monsters have been long known to shoot first rather than lose even a single nickel to competition.

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

I feel terrible for the family. But remember, this was not an intentional shooting. While the murderer deserves to go to jail for a long time, we shouldn't blame him for intentionally killing a seven year old.

captcha: partly to blame. What are you implying captcha.

I'd hardly say they don't deserve the blame or guilt. There was a shoot out, chances are they were trying to kill someone, it just happened to be the wrong person. Unless it was entirely in self defense, they deserve every bit of guilt for doing something that could so easily have resulted in unintended casualties.

Speaking of guilt, I can't believe how many people are blaming the parents. I very much doubt that most people who live in impoverished communities do so because they want to. They generally do it because that's generally the only place they can afford

 

[Westaway]

As Cave Jhonson said:
"I don't want your damn lemons! the hell am i supposed to do with these!?"

You just made me spray the lemonade I was drinking all over my monitor.
You, sir, are a comic genius.

 

[Faraja]

It sucks to be that girl's family. I can't imagine they're going to be able to let it go.

Ignorant implies I don't understand the culture or its laws. I'm actually fully informed of both and simply see how ancient and stupid they are. You guys are still living in the Wild West.

You're entire post is just utter bollocks. Make all the laws against gun ownership you want. People will still get a hold of them. Gun smuggling is the second largest criminal enterprise in the world. Just behind drugs, just above animals. The people who shot this girl either stole their guns, bought them from people who stole the guns, or got them from a smuggler. Making them illegal, and thus jacking up the price, is just going to drive up black market sales. Logic will tell you that.

Crime isn't intrinsically tied to availability of tools. If you really want someone dead, you'll bludgeon them to death with a pipe, cut them with a sword sword, or beat them to death with your fists if you have to. Humans have been figuring out decent ways to kill people since the first monkey wanted another's banana It helps, sure, but if you really want someone dead, you'll see them dead.

Also, if you really understood American culture, you'd realize that firearms aren't just a part of our history, they are our history. The United States exists because we took up arms against the British. The British didn't take us back because we took up arms. It took a war to end the slave trade. The west was 'won' because of fire arms. Saying we should give up fire arms is like asking the French to give up wine, the British to give up fish & chips, (yes, I realize that they aren't in the same vein as the topic, and that they may or may not be that important to British and French culture) or asking us to give up our individualist nature. It's not practical, and trying will just get you shot.

Besides, we'll need those guns to defend our homes from our coming Chinese overlords.

What we need isn't to make guns illegal, we need to teach people from a young age to respect their killing power. I say we start in high-school, and the first day of class we fit everyone with one of those impact vests that simulate the feel of getting shot, so that they know what it feels like. Admittedly, that's not going to do much to put a dent in the gang banger populous, but good luck trying to figure out how to really fix that short of complete irradication.

Sympathy for the girl and her bereaved family, none at all for the USA. They are happy and adamant to continue allowing guns to be privately owned, this is the inevitable result. Americans have no right to bemoan both the tragic loss of a child's life and their personal, inalienable right to own guns.

One is the consequence of the other so you make your bed and lie in it.

While I'm in a bitchy mood, I want to harp on this comment. By this logic, should we start blaming France, England, and the US for WWII? After all, there were plenty of chances for us to check Nazi Germany, but no country did. Really, it strikes me as anti-American hate. I get it, the US is an easy target. We're in the news a lot, Americans tend to be loud, proud, and we occasionally screw up.

Honestly, though, you clearly don't understand us. In my very limited international travels, the one time I went to Australia, that seemed to be pretty common.

 

[Faraja]

I'd rather work so that no one had any guns, pointy or blunt objects rather than try to arm everyone.

That's impossible, and impractical. I could kill someone with a plastic spork. Or a stick, especially a pointy one.

Personally, I would rather live in a world where we teach people to respect the power of the instruments in their hands.

 

[Faraja]

This is really strange. In Mexico, there is a lot of violence due to the wars between drug cartels. In some cities there is a lot of violence due to gangs fighting it off with each other. But this? It's just so random. The only reasoning that I can think of, is that they did it for shit's and giggles, how sick that may sound. Or maybe someone in the family had some hidden ties with the mafia, and couldn't pay them back? Who knows.

The problem with gang bangers, is that they have to look cool for their homies. That means, holding your weapon in a way to make you look like a real OG. Two common ways for filth to hold their weapons are at a 90 degree angle, or a 180 degree angle. Basically, they hold it like they're holding the handle bars of a bike, or they needed to check something on their elbow. Holding a gun like that, means that you lose a lot control, and thus accuracy.

Combine that with the generally sudden nature of these shoot outs, and people trying to run and gun, and its easy to see why several rounds get no where near the intended target.

 

[Seneschal]

ts been said like three times already, but I'll say it again because its true. Outlawing weapons here wouldn't make stuff like this cease to happen. It would only drive the market for said weapons underground. An expanded black market for firearms would only INCREASE violent crime.

That's a myth. In countries with strict weapon laws it's extremely expensive and difficult to lay your hands on illegal firearms. It's nigh impossible to steal legal arms since the law requires all weapon owners to keep their weapons in a high grade safe at all times, have to be concealed during transport, and even deviations the do different things than visit a shooting club are forbidden in the case of firearms and shooting clubs or the one or two firearms dealers have even stricter regulations and are veritable fortresses. So every illegal weapon has to be smuggled in from far away, ussually Yugoslavia or somewhere in that neighbourhood, and even there, there is no open weapons market.

In the US however, it is only easy to get illegal weapons, because there are so many weapons to make illegal. Break into any random house, chances are you'll find weapons there. Or rob one of thousands and thousands of gun stores. Don't forget to shoot the storeowners first.

Most robbers around here for instance make do with replicas. Armed burglars are unheard of. The very few actual street gangs that exist are unarmed, or use tiny knives, think swiss army knives. Most street muggers are unarmed, some use small knives, and I can't remember a single instance of them stabbing someone.

It's also bred a culture where criminals will be extremely hesitant to use weapons, and especially firearms, because serious violence is so rare the police comes down on weapon users like a ton of bricks.
The only real fatal shootings are drug related among criminals, and those rarely ever take place in a way that people get caught in the crossfire. Once again, criminals are very aware they're instantly the most wanted person in the country if a bystander gets hit.

And untill last year where there was a fatal shooting, I could also say that in the US, compensated for population, more policemen are killed by criminals every month, than in the Netherlands in 50 years.

Agreed on everything. I do think just pretending that the US is Europe won't fix the problem. The sheer number of firearms in circulation, and the casual attitude towards them, will result in armed criminals and defenceless innocents if strict laws are ever enacted. So no, "just gun regulation" won't work, since the problem is cultural, not legal. But it is a problem, and should be solved, not just brushed aside as "pinko liberals panicking over nothing".

I'd also like to dispel some preconceptions as someone from "Yugoslavia" (which, for your information, ceased to exist 20 years ago). I've never seen a firearm that wasn't in a policeman's holster, let alone an unholstered one; I have no idea where to get them, there are no gun stores that I know of, the registration/license process is arduous, and hunting/sports shooting requires additional checks and precautions. The only regions with a lot of illegal guns are those that were affected by the war, mostly remote rural areas; there was an action to get veterans to surrender all the cold-war weapons they had stashed in their barns, and it had a large turnout. Illegal firearms do get smuggled in from further East, but gun violence is rather low - to the point where every shooting is front-page material, which is comforting, in a way. But, compared to Finland or Norway, which have gigantic amounts of (strictly regulated) sporting weapons, gun ownership here is rather low.

 

[royohz]

I watched Michael Moore's documentary "Bowling for Columbine" just a few days ago. This testaments to that. I did, however, not catch a real answer for why US citizens kill each other with guns at such morbidly and frightening higher rate than any other country in the world (except, like, rebel war zones) apart from simple, animalistic fear. It's ridiculous.

 

[Varis]

What it means, is... wait for it...regulating firearms would reduce the number of them.

And how would that ever be a good thing?

It would be a good thing since it would also reduce the amount of people stupid enough to start a shoot-out in public.
In Finland, which although is quite the small country compared to USA and many other countries, has a lower amount of deaths by gunshots than your average state (e.g. Lousiana, ahem..). A single state, having a larger death rate than a whole country? There is something wrong about that, don't you think?
In Finland, civilians aren't allowed to carry guns in public. Or for that matter, anything that even resembles a gun. In my opinion, that's only a good thing. Leave the guns for warfare and shooting ranges.
That way all the disputes can be solved by word, or fists, whichever works. That way there won't be any "collateral damage" and if someone has actually got a gun in public, shooting it even once pretty much "blows your cover". It's easy for everyone to point out the shooter.

 

[doomspore98]

I feel terrible for the family. But remember, this was not an intentional shooting. While the murderer deserves to go to jail for a long time, we shouldn't blame him for intentionally killing a seven year old.

captcha: partly to blame. What are you implying captcha.

I'd hardly say they don't deserve the blame or guilt. There was a shoot out, chances are they were trying to kill someone, it just happened to be the wrong person. Unless it was entirely in self defense, they deserve every bit of guilt for doing something that could so easily have resulted in unintended casualties.

Speaking of guilt, I can't believe how many people are blaming the parents. I very much doubt that most people who live in impoverished communities do so because they want to. They generally do it because that's generally the only place they can afford

I was saying the shooter shouldn't be blamed for the intentional murder of a seven year old. He should be blamed for unintentional murder. However, seeing that it was a seven year old who was killed, I doubt the sentencing will be much different.

 

[TwiZtah]

As Cave Jhonson said:
"I don't want your damn lemons! the hell am i supposed to do with these!?"

That is so many levels of apathy for a human life, it's not even funny. A little girl died and you're just cracking jokes about it.

I may be a fan of edgy comedy but that was just wrong.

Anyways, my prayers will go out to the girl and her family.

If you can't make a joke, you can't be serious about an issue, because you can't distance yourself and look at it objectively.

Serious question, why does USA have so many homicides? really, here in sweden we get like 200 cases every year.

 

[fix-the-spade]

Gun Control Thread Imminency Senses.

At risk of sounding hoity-toity, there's far deeper problems running through America's cities then simple gun control.

On the other hand, use Euro-pikeys have the right idea and use knives. Silent y'see...

 

[Daystar Clarion]

Gun Control Thread Imminency Senses.

At risk of sounding hoity-toity, there's far deeper problems running through America's cities then simple gun control.

On the other hand, use Euro-pikeys have the right idea and use knives. Silent y'see...

I was only foretelling the decline of this thread into one about gun control.

I was right

 

[Enverex]

Having just watched "The Wire" in its entirety this does not surprise me in the slightest.

 

[Zeraki]

Gang violence continues to go unchecked, meanwhile in Washington politicians argue over their favorite colors because... why not?

Captcha: John Lennon... interestingly somewhat relevant.

 

[ElPatron]

It would be a good thing since it would also reduce the amount of people stupid enough to start a shoot-out in public.

Yeah, because it's registered, licensed gun owners that cause mayhem (talking worldwide here).

Starting a shootout in public is illegal. Criminals do it. Cranking up the Full Metal Fascism in the government and reducing number of legal firearms does not prevent the proliferation of illegal firearms, or even their production.

In Finland, which although is quite the small country compared to USA and many other countries, has a lower amount of deaths by gunshots than your average state (e.g. Lousiana, ahem..). A single state, having a larger death rate than a whole country? There is something wrong about that, don't you think?

You're talking about death rates. Rates. If you wanted to make a point, you'd compare the number of actual deaths, not the rates.

It's like saying "Pripyat residents had a higher rate of cancer than the whole UK". You're not creating a lot of impact, because it's a rate of a smaller test group. If you said "Pripyat residents: more cancer cases than the whole UK" then you get the most impact.

This is only an analogy, I am clearly bullshitting the numbers.

EDIT: Also, I think you might have forgotten variables such as poverty. Nice job bringing up Finland, you now turned this a case of living standards and cultural differences instead of guns.

In Finland, civilians aren't allowed to carry guns in public.

Point being? In Chicago you're not allowed to have concealed/open carry licenses unless you're a cop (obviously) or someone important, like a politician or a district attorney.

That way all the disputes can be solved by word, or fists, whichever works. That way there won't be any "collateral damage" and if someone has actually got a gun in public, shooting it even once pretty much "blows your cover". It's easy for everyone to point out the shooter.

So that you can solve the shoot out by words, right?

You should read your own post. Basically you are saying that preventing legal gun owners from carrying their guns, you'll prevent illegal carry.

How does that even work? If you want to conceal carry a weapon in the US you need a *LICENSE* (except in the states with Constitutional Carry: Alaska, Arizona, Vermont and Wyoming).

Otherwise you are doing it illegally. Just like in any other country. How long until you realize that those criminals are not carrying their guns legally? Specially in Illinois, which forbids any kind of carry!

And I am sorry if in your country people are always arguing and punching each other every time that there is a disagreement.

Serious question, why does USA have so many homicides? really, here in sweden we get like 200 cases every year.

Higher living standards and more education. Poverty and lack of education lead people into gangs, drugs and other criminal activities.

Fairly simple explanation, highly complex problem.