9/11 conspiracies. Really, they still exist?

[oppp7]

Ya, this conspiracy still exists, despite having been disproved several times. I don't get it either.

 

[Woodsey]

You sound surprised, it was only 8 years ago.

There's still conspiracies about stuff in WW2 and 1 and years before that - stuff like the Philadelphia project.

It's attention seeking.

 

[captainwillies]

Or that whoever was behind the attack be put to justice. Whoever that might be.

They kind of died in the crashes.

I'm sure he's talking about the people who orchestrated the whole thing not the poor mind-slaves who were brainwashed into taking their own lives and the lives of others.

 

[captainwillies]

snip

have you seen zeitgeist the movie?

 

[Korolev]

People believe this stuff because they want to feel "special" and "in-the-know". Conspiracy theorists actually get a little high off believing themselves to be "superior" to the "sheeple" as they call anyone who doesn't believe in their crazed theories.

The point of the matter is that 9/11 conspiracies have been conclusively disproven countless times by scientists, researchers, and what not. Popular mechanics ran an entire issue on de-bunking "loose-change" and other such theories.

Loose-change is where it really started. If you watch loose change, you might think that the conspiracy is true. Sadly, conspiracy theorists don't bother to check if the "facts" presented in Loose Change are actually real.

This is what I find hilarious about Conspiracy theorists - for all their smary "you're all sheeple" talk, they are exactly the same as anyone else. They accept anything their fellow theorists say uncritically. They are just as one-sided, stubborn, and prone to error as those who always trust the government.

 

[lewiswhitling]

well, would i be right in believing that Obama is already being targeted as an evil mastermind who wants to bring the entire world under his malign control? If someone as popular as that still gets the "up to no good" branding, then it seems we'll never see the end of conspiracy theorising.

The only way to stop conspiracy theories is to actually fulfill them (ironically). As soon as you're living in a North Koreanesque state, then everybody seems to shut the hell up. If you ever want to determine whether or not the society you're living in is a dystopian orwellsville, just see how many conspiracy theories are floating about.. if there are none, your fears have been confirmed

 

[xXRikuXx]

As far as 9/11 conspiracies go, even though I know its a load of crap, I find the episode of south park sums it up quite nicely

 

[Seanchaidh]

I think the camera angle leads this person to believe they were insubstantial hits. Oh, and kudos to the person who sited Popular Mechanics...beat me to the punch =p.
www.debunking911.com has a lot of good information as well and addresses point by point most of the arguments theorists make.

I like my kudos thank you. What is a kudo anyways?

Kudos is the singular. It's Greek (and essentially means "praise").

There's no such word in greek.

The truth is, the media can create evidence, influence popular opinion, do anything they want really. They are the terrorists; they make you afraid of conveniently faceless people. You should be afraid of nothing!

Ah, no, the people flying planes into buildings or planting bombs in railway stations or bombing mosques are 'the' terrorists.

Governments lying to its people for a hidden cause is nothing new. Many dictatorships around the world can attest to this (past and present). Ah ah ah, I know you're thinking "The US is not a dictatorship!" Sure, but it does remind of one. What with all the policing, influencing of popular opinion through the media, breaking human rights in the name of "security"... That last one really did begin as a measure against "terrorists", people that don't even exist. Seriously, would you have ever seen a terrorist if not on TV? Think good and hard about it.

Are you saying that people on TV don't exist?

A lot of people say "Killing 3,000 people just like that! What government would do that? You people are loonies!",

They certainly say the third part, but tend to focus on other reasons for it. Such as this one: you think the guy who put together "Loose Change" is more credible than US domestic media, foreign media, hundreds of thousands of newspapers and news magazines like the Economist, Foreign Affairs, interest groups, citizens, Al Qaeda themselves, and

yet you forget how little any government cares. If governments really cared, TVs would be long gone. If they really cared, alcohol would be illegal (or, to the same effect, all drugs would be legal). if they really cared, they would not start wars for any reason.

You hold governments to unreasonable standards of consistency: there are sociological and traditional reasons for alcohol's legality alongside for instance marijuana's illegality.

"The bigger the lie, the more people will believe it". A. Hitler

And he was such a genius that he managed to run Germany into the ground before blowing his brains out.

(It was Joseph Goebbels, actually. He was excommunicated from the Catholic Church... for marrying a protestant)

Here's another quote: "[The 9/11 truth movement] gives supporters of Bush an excuse to dismiss critics of this administration. I have no doubt that every time one of those Loose Change dickwads opens his mouth, a Republican somewhere picks up five votes." -Matt Taibbi

Any similarities with contemporary events is clearly coincidental, of course.

Actually no: there isn't even coincidence. There is just incidence. You're seeing patterns where none exist. Anyway, quoting some historical figure isn't license to turn off critical thinking.

I know you guys are pretty biased, but you should look at this documentary made by an Italian Europarliamentarian. So that you don't say that it's american politics game or anything.

http://zero911movie.com/site/

I have yet to find an intelligent argument against the "conspiracy theories", by the way. They always focus on lack of evidende or something, while forgetting that evidence can be forged and manipulated. They do not explain the US' extremely militant (with very little effect) behaviour post-9/11, both within and outside its borders.

Well, if you throw out evidence you're liable to believe anything! And it appears that you do. But let us see... evidence can be manipulated, you say? So when Loose Change claims to have found people who will testify that they "heard bangs" in the towers before the collapse, that could have been manipulated? And when it claims that Flight 93 landed safely and was evacuated, whatever evidence there was for that... could have also been manipulated. Are you following? If you're going to treat evidence as inherently uncertain, you shouldn't believe anything.

Now I can imagine one might ask: But why would the good people making this video manipulate evidence? Only the government would have such a motive...

It's one of the oldest motives in the book. Fame and fortune.

I suggest that you should actually understand an argument against your conspiracy theory before claiming not to find an intelligent one. There are many out there. Care to contend with the Popular Mechanics article that provides a step-by-step debunking of your cherished Loose Change?

Here's an explanation of the United States' "extremely militant" behavior: In reaction to a warlike event, conservatives (and people generally) like to get tough on whatever seems threatening. They did. That explains the USA-PATRIOT act, wiretapping, Guantanamo, Iraq, everything. You might say that 9/11 was convenient for a political agenda (and I would agree) but not that it was a government conspiracy. Convenience does not mean responsibility.

 

[Player 2]

snip

have you seen zeitgeist the movie?

Those weren't my points. Some guy just told me them and I pasted them here because I thought they were so retarded they were funny. (no I haven't seen zeitgeist)

 

[Seanchaidh]

Or that whoever was behind the attack be put to justice. Whoever that might be.

They kind of died in the crashes.

I'm sure he's talking about the people who orchestrated the whole thing not the poor mind-slaves who were brainwashed into taking their own lives and the lives of others.

Well yes, but that's not nearly as funny.

 

[captainwillies]

no I haven't seen zeitgeist

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-594683847743189197#

skip to 43:15

watch it Alllllllll the way through.

 

[Jinx_Dragon]

Have you actually heard the elaborate plan these truthers believe was carried out? Its so many levels of stupid. My dad and i came up with a better plan in 2 hours of brainstorming. These truthers are stupid by definition.

2 hours? It took me less then ten minutes to understand just how flawed the theory was. I simply thought: why do something so complex when slamming real planes into the buildings would achieve the same effect. After all you would have to kill everyone on the planes anyway so why not just do the act and not worry about all clean up and loose ends?

I still think elements within the US government was part of 9/11, personally, but I will leave that dog lie.

 

[Snowalker]

Yes, there was a conspiracy by people who were decidedly against America to bring down two structures. Although that might have just been a "plan".

Yep, this pretty much sums up my opinion.

 

[person427]

A few months ago, I almost started to believe the conspiracy theories. Then I met a survivor. Somebody who was actually in the building, just a few floors below the one the plane hit. He got out in time, and actually saw it happen.

 

[yaik7a]

They did do it them slefs. A Tin and aluminium air plane cant force a concrete down or create an explosion force that huge is not possible without help from the government. And friend that
was in the Air force told me this and he knows this stuff for sure .

Regarding the Cuban plan, it was called Operation Northwood: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwood . I wonder how things would have turned out if Kennardy had authorized that plan?

This just shows how desperate and sinister the US government gets when they dont get what
they want .

 

[BernasLL]

Fire under 4000ºC can't melt titanium, not steel. Or create magma, like it did on 9/11

 

[Spirultima]

Well YOU can't say you know what happened, for all you know it could have been Kangaroo's who set it all up with explosive Gameboy Advance SPs.

But let people make conspiracy theory's, what harm is it to you.

And once more, don't tell people there wrong unless you have infinite knowledge of the world.

 

[guhzill]

So i was bored and went on youtube watching commentaries for south park, and i listen to the one about the "mystery of the urinal deuce" and down below i see comments from people saying that it was the government that planted bombs in the building and that it wasnt planes that crashed into the buildings. Really? There are still retards out there that dont believe that terrorists were the ones who blew up the two towers? The biggest arguement being "fire cant melt steel". If i remember right i think thats how they made swords back in the dark ages. I dunno, im a bit tired at the moment so i cant remember the melting point of steel, but ya, i dont believe any of these conspiracies about 9/11, what about you ppls?

just watch zeitgeist they prove it was the government, also your omly talking about the world trade center what about shanksville and the pentagon you cant expect me to believe a whole plane was vaporized by fire and the bodies where still identifiable. also what about world trade center 7 3 buildings collapsed and the plane didnt even touch 7

 

[pirateninj4]

Well all I have to say is, if it wasn't an inside job why the fuck won't the US government release a true and factual account of what happened? The reports that were released were incomplete, some of which were outright lies and there was a lot of cover up involved. Not to mention that there has been a denial of information release on many of the points of 9/11.

Also...why was there an invasion of Afghanistan plan drafted and ready to roll out before 9/11 happened?

I think that there's a lot of people out there that are too scared to think that there is something more sinister going on. What's too out there to believe that there was a more underlying motive for the invasion of Afghanistan? Iraq followed with as little truthful information and look at what that achieved. Huge increase in profits for companies with ties to the white house Administration, securing of major oil centres in the region and more BS to justify the continually rising death count of US troops and Iraqi citizens, and the worlds condemnation for it.

 

[Zersy]

Have you ever seen the documentry "Loose Change ?" look it up on youtube because it perfectly explains how 9/11 was a inside job with great detail.

Oh and there are some obvious "WTF"'s in 9/11 because of the melting point of the structures metals and the fuel that was said to catch fire did not match up since kerosene ( I think thats the fuels name) burns with a lower tempreture then the metals boiling points.

as well as the obvious one. Buildings only collpase on them selves with controlled demoltion! Seriously if you see that way they fall considering they were hit by a damn plane it makes no sense to why the towers ended up falling in on them selves rather then breaking apart or toppling over.

but true fact is that there is more to 9/11 then what people say and the american goverment perfectly has the potential to do this since they did something similar back in the 50's (or 60's sorry don't know the exact date) ,, where a plan was made to frame cuba for attacking a airline with american citizans in it when really it was a plan that would be flying over cuba and be there were bombs inside and they would be denonated remotely from another area, ofcourse this plan was never executed but it proves what there capable of now and watch that documentry if you want realistic answers.

(And another thing thats for sure they really pissed of the muslims for making them sound like terrorist)

You know almost everything in "Loose Change" is either outright lies, misconceptions, or just plain inaccurate information right?

You do know that any metal exposed to even a very low heat over a time period of a couple hours will begin to bend and deform completely losing it's structuaral rigidity right? Seriuosly, if you don't believe go take a spoon and set your stove top to it's lowest setting and place the spoon on top of it. After an hour or two that spoon will bend and even snap in your hand if you mess with it too much.

You do know that buildings ESPECIALLY skyscrapers are incredible succeptible to collapse if their internal supports are weakened by fire right? The planes themselves heavily damaged the internal columns of the towers. The fire then weakened them further to the point where they couldn't support the towers immense weight any longer.

You do know that buildings during demolitions, again ESPECIALLY skyscrapers, are notoriously unpredictable and even demolition experts can't predict how a building will fall. Falling, floor by floor is not proof that demo charges destroyed it. All thats proof of is that one floor collapse onto the floor beneath it, which then couldn't suport the wieght of itself and the floor above it so it then collapsed, leading to a domino effect. Again not all demolitions fall like that and even if they did how the building fell had to do with physics and proved nothing.

You also do realize that a controlled demolition of the twin towers would take hunreds upon hundreds of pounds of explosives and weeks to setup. So they somehow smuggled in all those explosives, wired them up, installed fuses, all in not just one but TWO of the most active buildings on the planet and no one noticed?

Thats not mentioning that our gov't had no motives to do this, nor would our gov't even be able to pull off the elaborate scheme that "Loose Change" tries to insinuate that they do.

But you know those are just facts, who listens to facts when someones spinning a good story.

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The government is able to pull off something like that? Forget motive-- we are talking about the same government right? the US government? The bay-of-pigs government?

Not likely.

HAH I shit you not thats exactly what I said when i first heard the conspiracy theory. Man the gov't wishes it was good enough to pull of the scheme this people try to spin.

I feel pretty naive and dumb after reading your post........................