A Defense Of GTA4

[lokust2001]

Again. If you like a game you like it and who cares what other people think.
I wish that all these types of threads would just stop, it's a neverending argument of people trying to prove their opinion is correct. IT'S OPINION!!! That's the fucking point it doesnt matter if anyone else agrees as long asd you're happy with it! I am so fucking sick of these threads (incase you hadn't guessed)!

 

[JemJar]

the chat between characters which changes every time you repeat a mission...

It might sound like pedantry but this is incorrect, there are, yes, a few scripts for each conversation, so repeating a mission once is almost worthwhile just for the extra dialogue, but if you ever find a particular mission especially challenging you still get just as bored.

On a similar note, GTA4 dropped one of the best (and most underused) features of GTA:SA in the Trip Skip.


Realism

People don't hate the realism in GTA4, they hate the inconsistency of the realism in GTA4.

Rockstar put a great physics engine in place (yes there are bugs but there always will be), built a wonderful city and populated it with interesting (if too-often cliched) characters.

Then they married it to a weapons system which still allows you to carry a truck-load of gear, a car-spawn system which only loads about 6 models at any one time, an achievement system asking you to do insane things, a pigeon-hunting mini-game, a jump-hunting mini-game and finally, the big daddy, the classic GTA policing system. The police ignore every driving offence possible as long as it doesn't harm a pedestrian or damage a police car. Speeding past them at 100mph? Fine. Mazing across the other lanes? Fine. Jumping the shark? Fine.

In so many ways GTA4 desperately tries not to be GTA as we previously knew and loved, and we could well love this new GTA, but Rockstar didn't have the guts to trying to make it an old-style GTA game and it creates a contradiction.

Friends

The inconsistency problem arises with the friends too. Nico is basically treated like some sort of lap-dog, to call up and demand a favour from - resulting in lost "relationship" score if you choose to decline the demand (I wont use the word "offer"). If I had a friend who called me up, said "Hey, want to go bowling? Then drop everything you're doing, come by my place and pick me up, drive me all the way there, pay for it, drive me all the way back." I think I'd start to get pretty pissed.

Friendships in my nice little realistic life are two way affairs - sometimes my friends ask me to go do something fun, sometimes I ask them. Rockstar missed an opportunity to have the friends ring Nico, offer to pick him up and take him for something fun - a free shopping trip, a random crime spree, a silly race.

It's not the friends system as such that sucks about GTA4 - Nico's friends are just a bunch of arseholes.

 

[HentMas]

As Yahtzee said, yes the game comes with a frightening number of "how to" things, but this game felt that they were necessary so you could get more in deep with the experience, I have already finished the game like 4 or 5 times just because, and every time I find some new thing that makes me laugh, also the "crash fwooom you´re in the floor" is actally a good thing, it makes you... better said FORCE you to get better and better at driving, and once you master driving it feels as one little personal achievement, driving cross city without crashing feel´s great!

I think this game, the more one play´s it the better it gets, which is a rare finding in console games now, and if you feel guilty because you didn´t pick up a call, well, the game just caught you!!

 

[SenseOfTumour]

I made the same comment as on Fallout 3.

It's a shame that a game while maybe not perfect but excellent, is damned as crap for only being excellent.

GTA IV vastly outshines the majority of games released still, it's just maybe not up to what was expected of a next gen GTA.

I agree with the above JemJar in the most however.

Police Stars, how about instead of 1 star, 6 stars, have a meter that fills. let speeding and fun driving pass unscathed, or you'll take the fun out of the game, however, minor crimes add a sliver to the meter, hit and runs a little more, murders, a good chunk, cop killing, even more. As it passes marks on the meter, it's like earning a fresh star.

Also in agreement that it'd be nice to get something back from friends occasionally, instead of having to 'work' for them, essentially, until they choose to offer me a bonus.

And yes, trip skip would have been nice, too.

However, I've thoroughly enjoyed playing it so far, even on a single figure frame rate on PC.

 

[JemJar]

Police Stars, how about instead of 1 star, 6 stars, have a meter that fills. let speeding and fun driving pass unscathed, or you'll take the fun out of the game, however, minor crimes add a sliver to the meter, hit and runs a little more, murders, a good chunk, cop killing, even more. As it passes marks on the meter, it's like earning a fresh star.

Just been re-reading the thread and wanted to make a point on the policing system.

Nico's "friends" keep track of Nico's actions. They remember the good "dates" and the rejections and the sex and the times you arrive too late.

The Police, however, do not remember Nico's actions. They don't keep a growing rap-sheet on Nico Bellic, they don't put up wanted posters, starts a man=hunt or label him a wanted felon. There is no reward offered for information leading to the arrest of Nico Bellic.

Upsetting as it is to say it: Need For Speed: Most Wanted (which I shamefully must admit to loving) has a more appropriate policing system; racking up "heat" - admittedly tied to a car rather than a person - which increases as you commit more offences and drops as you lie low (use another car for a bit) and affects the penalties should you get caught.

 

[Strafe Mcgee]

Again. If you like a game you like it and who cares what other people think.
I wish that all these types of threads would just stop, it's a neverending argument of people trying to prove their opinion is correct. IT'S OPINION!!! That's the fucking point it doesnt matter if anyone else agrees as long asd you're happy with it! I am so fucking sick of these threads (incase you hadn't guessed)!

If you don't like it, don't read it. Simple as. It's fairly clear in the title what this thread's about so you could have easily avoided it instead of coming in and telling us that you disapprove.

 

[Khazoth]

I don't giving a flying shit about GTA, Rockstar has substandard practices and relies too heavily on controversy to sell units. I don't mind controversy but they use it to sell games instead of actually making a quality game.

Manhunt, GTA San Andreas, Manhunt 2, you can't tell me they didn't see these problems coming and use them to get free press and attention to sell units.

 

[Shycte]

People flame GTA IV because it was diffrent and thay did not know how to handle ANYTHING else then the standard RPG and cars getting blowed up.

 

[JemJar]

People flame GTA IV because it was diffrent and thay did not know how to handle ANYTHING else then the standard RPG and cars getting blowed up.

Can we please bin this argument?

GTA III was different, it moved Liberty City into the third dimension.

GTA: VC was different, it actually gave a strong personality to the main character and ramped up the movie stylings.

GTA: SA was different, it dumped in a load of RPG mechanics, some of which were good and some of which were bad.

GTA IV is different, it provided a different style, more realistic physics, frankly a more hardcore gameplay system.

The problem is, much like Biosh*&k, Oblivion and Fallout 3, game reviewers almost universally offered the highest ratings available and yet a large number of people, impressed by the top reviews into buying the game, found it simply wasn't as enjoyable an experience as they had been led to believe.

I enjoyed many parts of GTA IV - personally I love the much maligned driving because it actually involved a level of skill, I am better at driving in GTA IV now than I was when I started. By contrast there's no real skill to driving in Saints Row 2 but I enjoyed that more.

I don't only play GTA games, I can happily deal with GTA IV being different to other GTA titles. But people overstate the flaws of GTA IV because in so many other ways it is brilliant.

 

[Keldon888]

The Biggest problem with it is the fact that it was universally celebrated at release for being the best GTA ever. 10/10 yay!

Oh wait? A more "realistic" driving system, irritating new mechanics(hello friends and dates), same old mediocre foot controls. A character based story, that will fall completely flat if you can't relate to the characters.

People were promised the messiah of GTA, they got just another GTA game.

The game is not bad at all, it's damn good, I would put it about the same level as SA. But it's in no way deserving of the reviews it got.

It's the exact same way I feel about Fallout 3, it's being promised as greater than reality. Fallout 3 is remarkably similar to Oblivion, just after an apocalypse, there have been some improvements sure, but there are also new flaws, and that's just not enough to take a game from good to greatest ever.

 

[Shycte]

Can we please bin this argument?

GTA III was different, it moved Liberty City into the third dimension.

GTA: VC was different, it actually gave a strong personality to the main character and ramped up the movie stylings.

GTA: SA was different, it dumped in a load of RPG mechanics, some of which were good and some of which were bad.

GTA IV is different, it provided a different style, more realistic physics, frankly a more hardcore gameplay system.

The problem is, much like Biosh*&k, Oblivion and Fallout 3, game reviewers almost universally offered the highest ratings available and yet a large number of people, impressed by the top reviews into buying the game, found it simply wasn't as enjoyable an experience as they had been led to believe.

I enjoyed many parts of GTA IV - personally I love the much maligned driving because it actually involved a level of skill, I am better at driving in GTA IV now than I was when I started. By contrast there's no real skill to driving in Saints Row 2 but I enjoyed that more.

I don't only play GTA games, I can happily deal with GTA IV being different to other GTA titles. But people overstate the flaws of GTA IV because in so many other ways it is brilliant.

People expected GTA IV to be another fun kill-em all gangster-sandbox game. Instead they got a more realistic and story-driven game.

The fan became confused by the fact that you can't pick up things that makes the police go away and that crashing in 120 km/h will send you flying thrugh the windshield.

Many were disapointed that the old colourful gameplay was gone because expected something else.

Now all this comes down to personal taste. I had more fun with GTA IV than Saints Row 2. Maybe that was because one of the 146.7564.7868 caused my game to crash or made it impossible for me to finish a mission.

My point is, GTA IV was diffrent in it's way of gameplay and realism. Rockstar targeted more adult and mature players and desinged the game from that point of view.

It's not just diffrent, it's almost a complete diffrent series. A better series IMO.

 

[JemJar]

Things I said.

People expected GTA IV to be another fun kill-em all gangster-sandbox game. Instead they got a more realistic and story-driven game.

The fan became confused by the fact that you can't pick up things that makes the police go away and that crashing in 120 km/h will send you flying thrugh the windshield.

Many were disapointed that the old colourful gameplay was gone because expected something else.

Now all this comes down to personal taste. I had more fun with GTA IV than Saints Row 2. Maybe that was because one of the 146.7564.7868 caused my game to crash or made it impossible for me to finish a mission.

My point is, GTA IV was diffrent in it's way of gameplay and realism. Rockstar targeted more adult and mature players and desinged the game from that point of view.

It's not just diffrent, it's almost a complete diffrent series. A better series IMO.

And yet running away from the police means that they eventually ignore you? Despite the fact that Nico Bellic rapidly becomes a mass murderer with hundreds of kills to his name? And he continues to never WEAR A DAMN SEATBELT after dozens of crashes through the windshield? And you call this a more realistic game?

Sure, there will be people crying about how GTA IV isn't a vibrant world of primary colours and all that guff but what grates is that there are two games in GTA IV which compete with each other.

One is a deep, dark, gritty story about Nico Bellic, a broken man trying to come to America, to escape the hell of his former life and rebuild himself - to escape the demons in his head and settle down with his cousin.

The other is a slapstick mess-about in classic GTA style. The one that asks you to hunt down 300 pigeons. The one that asks you to find and complete the stunt jumps. The one that asks you to rack up 10 minutes against 6-star cops. The one that makes it possible for you to use a damn Pay 'n' Spray. Arguably the one that involves Nico's abusive, self-centred "friends".

I hope when they get around to GTA V Rockstar work out which one they want to make, because until then they will churn out failed attempts to straddle what is essentially a genre divide. Reviewers of course will lap up the games as the greatest thing since sliced bread, just as they did with Biosh*&k. Yahtzee's popularity owes as much to his wit as it does to his differing opinions on some of the darlings of the review community.

 

[Librarian Mike]

The big elephant in the room is: A lot of people started ripping on GTA4 after Yahtzee proclaimed it as inferior to Saints Row. When something is a huge success like this, or Halo for that matter, people come out of the woodwork and start hating on it. It's a natural instinct to want to 'be different'.

 

[Stevedave00]

The only thing i think GTA4 needs and is missing is rampage missions.

 

[Sterence]

Why do people always complain about having to do activities with people? There is only around 2 mission where you actually have to do an activity with someone they don't actually force you to go and do it you could just pick up the phone and skip through the text and not actually have to go with them.

 

[konkwastaken]

Yes its realistic woop dee doo. If I want realism I open my door and walk outside. A game should never sacrfice fun for realism as GTA did.

But it didn't, it was more fun than any other GTA.

There, I said it.

Oh NO you Di'nt! honestly, what about vice city?
(i prefer saints row 2 over the whole series anyway )