"A job is a job", "Why don't you get a REAL job" - Why are these statements confusing?

[Jux]

The 'get a real job' line is usually used as either elitist bullshit or sometimes as a response to the perception of a lack of drive/motivation. In the second case, which I think most often applies from parent directed to child, I would say that they're using the wrong phrase to communicate their displeasure.

 

[UniversalRonin]

I think that what constitutes a real job depends on the person, their education, and their skills.

I have 2 GCSE's, a City and Guild in Motor vehicle service and repair, and a few years ago I managed to talk my way into a university and have nice shiny degree in Information Systems. Why is this important? because it helped me to gain a new perspective on the question 'What is a real job'.

If I went to any of the places I worked before I got a degree, they would tell me that IT isn't a job, it's sitting around an office being paid too much. And when I first qualified, the only job I could find was as a front line rides staff member at a theme park. 'That's not a job', I thought, I'm qualified to do much more challenging (and better paid) work than this. However, a friend I made working there had come to it from factory work, and for him it was pretty much a dream job- he got to interact with people all day long, he got paid to be outside enjoying creating a magical experience for the general public. Now, for his level of education (which is similar to my highschool education.) he doesn't expect much more than manual jobs, but for the person he is, out going and quite bubbly- he loves it. I'm a bit of a grouch. It's why Mechanics and IT are a good fit, so I was missing both the education and person side of it. However, in a few years, as he gains skills and experience, he still has chances to move up the ladder in the company.

And I need to stress- being less educated or skilled or experienced doesn't change your chances of finding a 'real job' it just changes what opportunities are available to you. And as long as you find your job to be enjoyable, and pays well enough to look after yourself and any dependents, it doesn't matter what your title is. One of the nicest people in the office I work in is the cleaner, and he and I have had many the chat where we've put the world to rights and I have learned loads of things from him that I'm sure even a slick MBA on a fast track management program might not know. I think that what constitutes a 'real job' is such a person by person thing, that to assume someone doesn't have one, or is ignorant for not doing what you do, or being as educated as you are is silly. (As a theme park front liner, I once got told I must be stupid to work where I work, doing what I do- little did they know I had a BSc Hons degree at the time.)


TLDR: A real job is dictated by a persons expectations, which in turn are affected by their personality, their level of education, the experience they have in the work place, and their aspirations.

(PS. I know I sound uber pompous in this post. Sorry about that.)

 

[WhiteFangofWhoa]

And I quote: "Well at least you have a job".

...fuck off. Seriously...fuck right off college career center lady at my old school. We have been told our entire life...our entire fucking life, that we need to go to college so that we don't get stuck in bad jobs (janitorial, fast food, customer service, grunt work type jobs). Now we are up to our eyes in debt, drowning financially and completely fucking ourselves for (at least) the next ten years of our life and now WE'RE the lazy people when we say "A job is a job is bullshit"? You've spent our entire lives telling us that we shouldn't settle for "shitty" jobs and accuse us of being lazy when we scoff at the shitty jobs? You've DRILLED into our brains that people in these industries are failures at life and now you wonder why we don't want these jobs.

/rant

According to my tech professor at my College that USED to be the case. Then the recession hit.

If there's one thing about my current job that aggravates me besides certain customers, it's the general manager's repeated claims that if you don't like this job you can leave, there's 50,000 other people out there DESPERATE for any kind of job at all. So no one will leave or risk said GM's wrath, because they might be right, and once you're out you're not getting back in.

But Happy Holidays anyway.

 

[ForumSafari]

not sure what separates amateurs from pros, maybe just depth of knowledge?

Knowledge of proper code structure, proper design procedure and correct testing and documentation policies. Basically the difference between sticking bricks together with cement and drawing up a floor plan.

In over many months and even years I have heard and seen several commentators go on about those who create content for YouTube and how what they are doing "Isn't a real job", and not fully understanding how hard they work and the many difficulties they go through to create a short video or an independent short film.

The problem is that for a lot of them it isn't a job, it's a hobby. That's cool if you're just looking to have fun and maybe monetise to the extent that you can let your hobby financially self sustain but it isn't a reliable or responsible way to actually fund your life.

Honestly most of the bad opinions about Youtube vloggers re: proper work comes from people like Spoony that have royally fucked up and ended up sponging off people and making videos rather than using that time to look for a job and begin to support themselves.

In this context a 'real job' is something that gives you enough money to live on relatively comfortably, to prevent you being a burden on others and that has a measure of stability.

 

[tippy2k2]

According to my tech professor at my College that USED to be the case. Then the recession hit.

If there's one thing about my current job that aggravates me besides certain customers, it's the general manager's repeated claims that if you don't like this job you can leave, there's 50,000 other people out there DESPERATE for any kind of job at all. So no one will leave or risk said GM's wrath, because they might be right, and once you're out you're not getting back in.

But Happy Holidays anyway.

And that's totally fair; the previous generation couldn't have known that a recession of this magnitude would hit us. I'll be honest...I've been very frustrated with my situation (and watching many of my college buddies) being utterly F'ed by this current situation we've found ourselves in and a large part of my post was just letting all that steam vent out. Depressingly enough, with how badly I'm drowning, I have buddies who have it worse, which is almost baffling to me that someone could be in a worse financial pit than me

I also didn't specify this but I really should have for it would probably add a lot to that vent...that "Well at least you have a job" was my school's reasoning for why they shouldn't help me look for another job. They gave me the sage advice of "go to monster.com" when I was looking for resources for employment. I paid $80,000 for that golden nugget of advice...

For some reason, they wonder why I won't donate to the alumni fund...

 

[michael87cn]

Simple human cruelty and egotism at work. Plain and simple.

People simply seek to make themselves feel good, no matter the consequences to others. So they will gladly demean someone else to get their fix of ego boost.

"A job is a job" comes from someone with a level head on their shoulders.

There shouldn't be confusion here - it's simple as I said.

 

[Parasondox]

Incoming tippy2k2 rant; read at your own discretion...

The last generation has completely and utterly fucked up this generation. I'm sure you're wondering how I've come to that conclusion and it's based largely on what you're complaining about:

If you are currently between the ages of...let's say 20-30 (Sorry kids of today, I'm 27 so I'm not sure what the social pressures are on you right now so maybe you're stuck in this shit storm too). How many of you were told growing up that you should go to college so that you don't have to spend the rest of your life flipping hamburgers (since fast food is "not a real job"? I'm guessing that the vast majority of you have raised your hands.

Now we're at a point where getting ANY job is a giant pain in the ass. I have a $80,000 debt from going to college to gain a piece of paper that is worth about as much as the actual piece of paper. I am five years out of college and have just barely started gaining ground on that debt (though it'll be at least five more years before I'm clean). Now you know what I was told when I went to my college's career center when I was stuck in a shitty, soul-stealing tech support job?

And I quote: "Well at least you have a job".

...fuck off. Seriously...fuck right off college career center lady at my old school. We have been told our entire life...our entire fucking life, that we need to go to college so that we don't get stuck in bad jobs (janitorial, fast food, customer service, grunt work type jobs). Now we are up to our eyes in debt, drowning financially and completely fucking ourselves for (at least) the next ten years of our life and now WE'RE the lazy people when we say "A job is a job is bullshit"? You've spent our entire lives telling us that we shouldn't settle for "shitty" jobs and accuse us of being lazy when we scoff at the shitty jobs? You've DRILLED into our brains that people in these industries are failures at life and now you wonder why we don't want these jobs.

/rant

I think I got a smidge off-topic in there but I at least hit the spirit of the thread, right?

If I haven't, feel free to ask me to trash this post. I think this topic is interesting and I'm a little worried that I might knock it off the train tracks if I missed the point (which, after reading the OP again, I think I may have)

Mr Tippy2k2 sir, don't worry because you didn't go off topic and you have pointed out something that is linked to this topic. I like your post a lot as well with other post submitted in this thread. Yes my hands were up when you mentioned who was told growing up that we should go to college (University here in the UK), so you don't have to spend your life flipping burgers. I was told this in secondary school, which is your high school. All the students were told go to Uni, get a degree and the job you desire will be ready and available for you. What they fail to blindly mention was that Uni was expensive and many degrees you work towards can be a 7+ year learning period that can cost you a hell of a lot of money. Running up debts and stress to pay off even when you are in late 40?s. Also those jobs aren?t easy to come by because the position you desire, there will be hundreds of others racing to that one finish line.

SIDE NOTE: I?m 22 and many of my friends have just left Uni and some have no idea what to do next and feel stuck. It?s not their fault really just somewhere down the line someone must have given them some wrong information and stuck by it. I want to make clear I am not saying University is a waste of time because I know they have their benefits but being rushed into Uni by peers or family and not knowing what you fully want to do as a career isn?t the best idea and it takes time to know what you want to do. I didn?t go university the same time as my mates because I was unsure about what I wanted to do as a career and goal. I would like to go one day but for me I wanted to see how the working world was like first, seeing the pros and cons, experiencing a new environment and earning money so save up for something big. At this moment I know what I want to do and to become and I fully realise that it?s not easy and will take years to learn, experience and perfect within that career.

Back to my main point, some of my elders and even old colleagues just told me straight with no bullshiting that the world doesn?t get easy at the drop of a hat or at a click of the fingers once you turn 16/18 and leave school. You have to adapt to the changes that are made to get to where you want to be. So in order to reach the top you must start from the bottom and work hard to climb that ladder because the world is competitive no matter the working sector you are in or desire to be in. If you enjoy what you are doing and have a positive attitude towards the job, your confidence and morale will go up and things will be painted brighter.

As I pointed out in the OP, whether the job is this, that or the other, they play an important part in this ever growing world. And to add to that it?s the false bullshitting that many of us have been told about the adult world that those ?shitty? jobs are pointless and worthless, might be one of the reasons why some (not all) individuals think that way and look down on others. It doesn?t help and I hope schools today actually point out the truth rather than sugar coating something.

 

[AlbertoDeSanta]

I'll make it no secret, I'm still in High School. Final year, to be exact. And I think the problem is, is that an enormous amount of pressure is being put on people like me to go through Higher Education to get a scrap of paper that fits you for a job. "A Job is a Job" - as a statement describes it perfectly. No matter where you fit on the capitalist hierarchy, from the lowliest Janitor to the highest CEO, it doesn't matter. YOu're making this world tick, and you help form part of a whole. A unique part that couldn't exist without you.

"Getting a Real job" - is just elitist bullshit, said by the snobbish rich dudes who drive nice cars whilst picking up their 5 Star meal. Not all of us can be in the top margin of wealth, so stop looking down on those that help the world tick.

 

[sXeth]

Well, I get "Get a real job" about my main day-to-day job (at a secondhand retailer). Oddly enough, even from people working the counter at a Tim Hortons (Donut/coffee shop) who were former Dental Assistants. Some of the flak seems to be that I've been at the current one for some amount of time, as if jumping between the various near-minimum wage jobs scattered about would somehow improve over sticking with one.

I already have a college diploma, which became effectively worthless within months of graduating, if it ever had worth to begin with against a software development market crowded with veterans of the collapsing IT bubble. It was also from one of the dubious 1-year program colleges you see TV ads for, and numerous HR/Job Assistance people have mentioned the college being looked at as a "You paid for this, and little else" diploma. Fortunately, I emerged from it without debt, at least.

Outside of that, I work as a musician, music producer, photographer, author, do some journalistic/review work, and do custom work on guitars. All of these are often described as my "hobbies", but in better months, can sometimes make 2-4 times my "real job" income.

The "real jobs", in current demographics, are largely not even obtained by your qualifications (yeah, if you want to be a doctor, lawyer, you obviously need the relevant degrees, I'm not saying that), but more by managing to sneak your way in socially. They often aren't even posted, but done by headhunting, or simply filled in by social circles. The resume is damn near dead as a job search tool of any use (even places that care about that info increasingly use social network "creeping"). Even the doctors and lawyers have trouble snaring positions beyond very low level ones in their fields.

 

[Urgh76]

Twenty dollars is Twenty dollars.

Spoiler: Also

 

[Vegosiux]

I think whenever people talk about "a real job" they mean something soul-crushing that involves a lot of paper pushing and a lot of uneventful nothingness. You know, like, you're not supposed to enjoy "a real job", but it's still something you'll not be treated like scum over by people who have their heads too far up their ass, unlike working service and such.

 

[balladbird]

I don't have a lot of personal experience with either... see a lot of "get a real job!" aimed at internet celebrities though... especially youtube personalities or other online reviewers.

I remember a couple months ago Blip media players added a feature where if someone was using Adblocker, they would stall the video for 90 seconds before letting it play. viewers mistakenly thought the crew of the site (in this case, "That Guy With The Glasses") had done it, and started flooding the site with complaints. One of the contributors to the site made a video explaining things, saying it's beyond their control, and asking nicely if people would consider just letting the ads play, since the big name contributors made their living off of ad revenue.

cue a bunch of people whining about how they should just get "real" (read: miserable, pointless) jobs, and don't deserve ad revenue, because... fuck if anyone who visits the site should have to sit through a minute of commercials to watch a 20 minute feature they've watched for years! Never mind that getting a "real" job would make it harder to follow a release schedule for their videos, and the same asshats moaning about "real" jobs would be the first in line to complain if their favorite video series was so much as one day late.


... TL;DR- from an outsider's perspective, people talking about "real" jobs are doing so out of either entitlement, jealousy, or spite.

 

[Parasondox]

Twenty dollars is Twenty dollars.

Spoiler: Also

What point are you trying to make? Would you be able to explain further please?

 

[scorptatious]

Bleh. Fuck that guy saying that jobs like cleaning don't bring anything useful to the world. Last night I had to clean out a sink because someone threw up in it. Imagine all the health problems that could have arisen if I didn't decide to clean it up.

But yeah. I've only just recently got a job as a porter at my local bowling alley. I have somewhat mixed feelings about it. On one hand, I have to deal with idiot customers who don't control their kids as they throw multiple balls down the lanes, leaving me to pick them all up, while at the same time, having to watch out for balls thrown down the lanes next to me. You'd think people would be more considerate then that but nooooooo.

On the other hand, most of the time, it is fairly rewarding. I get tip out money along with my check, and I've made quite a few new friends there.

At the same time though, I can't help but wonder about what I want to do in the future. I've been faffing about in community college for about two years before hand, but haven't really done much there because I don't know what I want to do for a living. And even if I did, I would have to go through General Education first, and that involves loads of math. And I hate math.

So yeah, call me lazy, (no really it's fine) but I can't help but feel college for me isn't worth it at the moment when I could just focus on the job I have now. And I feel guilty about this at the same time, because all my life I've been told how important college is in order to get a good job. So I'm having a bit of a dilemma when it comes to deciding what I want to do with my life.

 

[Olas]

If people pay you to do it, and it's not illegal, then it's a legit job as far as I'm concerned.

That's all there is to it.

 

[Aramis Night]

I don't have a lot of personal experience with either... see a lot of "get a real job!" aimed at internet celebrities though... especially youtube personalities or other online reviewers.

I remember a couple months ago Blip media players added a feature where if someone was using Adblocker, they would stall the video for 90 seconds before letting it play. viewers mistakenly thought the crew of the site (in this case, "That Guy With The Glasses") had done it, and started flooding the site with complaints. One of the contributors to the site made a video explaining things, saying it's beyond their control, and asking nicely if people would consider just letting the ads play, since the big name contributors made their living off of ad revenue.

cue a bunch of people whining about how they should just get "real" (read: miserable, pointless) jobs, and don't deserve ad revenue, because... fuck if anyone who visits the site should have to sit through a minute of commercials to watch a 20 minute feature they've watched for years! Never mind that getting a "real" job would make it harder to follow a release schedule for their videos, and the same asshats moaning about "real" jobs would be the first in line to complain if their favorite video series was so much as one day late.


... TL;DR- from an outsider's perspective, people talking about "real" jobs are doing so out of either entitlement, jealousy, or spite.

I would personally rather sit tight for 30 min's than have to view a 30 sec commercial if that's what it took. I can't remember the last time I've seen an advertisement that was remotely relevant to me in the slightest, let alone had any hand in convincing me of a purchasing decisions. Most adds tend to turn me away from having any interest in whatever product they are trying to push, even when it is the kind of product i may at some point need to buy. If i go through the grocery store and recall seeing an add for a product i'm considering, I'll buy its competitor instead, even if it means going generic.

On Topic: The current circumstances are only being seen as an issue because the older generations have convinced themselves that its all your fault that your not making more money, rather than taking any responsibility for the circumstances that they created for you at this age. They know they are going to be dead before long and they are going to bleed the markets as much as they can before they go while complaining about and blaming young people who just barely showed up, for the state of things.

Just accept that your children will not have a chance at a better life than you have had. Accept that retirement is going to be a luxury that the vast majority of us will never see. Embrace the new feudalism that is to come. The current economy isn't some down slope with a viable recovery in sight. How things are right now, This is the new normal. If things change from this at all, it will only be to get worse. Don't kid yourselves otherwise.

 

[Urgh76]

Twenty dollars is Twenty dollars.

Spoiler: Also

What point are you trying to make? Would you be able to explain further please?

Sorry for poking a little fun in the thread.

In the top statement, I referenced the usual statement that one gives when asked why they have performed certain "favors"

Yet it can also be taken as to mean, if it makes you money, it makes you money. Enjoyment is a side dish to the entree which is best served cold and hard. Cash.

 

[suitepee7]

I value the people that do the unpleasant jobs. The cleaners, the sewer workers and the binmen. However, the people who I cannot stand are the people who have had the entire education subsidised by the taxpayer then decide that they are going to live in a carven and teach archery. That effectively means that the people who are doing the cleaning and picking up the bins taxes has been wasted on some who values their own happiness above the people who doing the crap boring jobs. When the country is paying £47 billion in interest a year its kind of like spitting in everyone else's faces. You have paid for my degree and healthcare now that I'm in position to start paying back, I'm going to piss off and do what makes me happy and you can all pay for me.

i get what you're saying, but surely the guy teaching archery would meet one of two scenarios eventually, either
a) people pay him to teach them, he continues teaching because there are people willing to pay for it
b) people don't pay him to teach them, he cannot continue teaching

that's kind of the nature of business, if people will pay for it, you can sell it in some form. i disagree with the whole "get a real job" attitude, just reminds me of freddy got fingered, with some people not being able to comprehend that there is more than one way to make money

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

You would mostly hear the quote "Why don't you get a REAL job", either when you are doing something part time and others don't see your work as something worthwhile or something you love doing that makes you happy but others in society think it's not proper work.

As a general rule, jobs classified as "not real jobs" are those where the long term viability of the occupation is suspect. Youtube content creation, for example, relies on a set of conditions that can easily change at any time. There is no particular reason Google has to let you make money off a video through ads and, at a moments notice, they can redirect any and all funds in such a fashion to their own coffers.

In some cases of course it is simply a result of a job changing in nature without the perception changing along with it. Self-Publishing authors of all stripes (webcomics, novels, etc) tend to fall in this category and the perception of non-viability is based on the fact that there is much cachet in the old publishing model and only limited understanding of the new one.

In short, the problem is one of perception. If it is impossible to predict if you're going to get a next paycheck, a job easily falls into "not a real job category". Some jobs are misclassified as such because the predictability or revenue is non-obvious.

 

[AngloDoom]

It took me five months of constantly throwing CV's in faces, signing up to agencies, and endless online applications to get a job with long, unsociable hours, minimum wage, which most people consider to be so far beneath them that people I know have rather stayed unemployed rather than work as - dum dum DUUUUM - a carer.

I friggin' love my job. If it wasn't for the fact that I work at night, I'd be a very happy bunny indeed. Doing this job has spurred me on to really want to make a difference to people's lives and has given me the first clear sense of direction I've ever had in my own life; I've saved up, I want to go to university as a nurse, and I want to be the very best nurse I can so I can help as many people as I can.

If people tell me I don't have a 'real' job, I'm far too happy with the way my life's shaping up to even bother answering them.