A lot of negativism towards gaming journalism?

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CaitSeith

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Areloch said:
I'd say a large part of it is because journalists - not just gaming - very rarely do any fact checking and instead just curb to clickbait or completely unchecked, unsubstantiated reports and throw them up on the internet to 'get the scoop', which means that most journalistic outlets are very largely just reporting trash. Compound this further by some "journalists"(glorified bloggers) who are convinced that there's not any real difference between an official article/review and an op-ed.

Game journalism also has the added bonus of a bad history of selling out to publishers so it's even harder to believe anything they put out is legitimate.

I mean, here's a fun example how how much un-effort goes into checking anything by a bunch of different places: https://www.reddit.com/r/thedivision/comments/4g6osh/hey_rthedivision_agents_im_sorry/

Someone on reddit did a hoax post about a glitch they found in The Division. No pictures, no video. Not only did the commentors on the original thread eat it up without checking(apparently some people that did try to check and found it wrong got downvoted into oblivion) but then several game news sites reported it flat without verifying anything.

Stuff like that is why games journalism has such a negative impression with people anymore.
The irony about this is that the gaming community was the first one to fall for it and they kept perpetuaiting it; but only the websites are to be shamed. It's funny this standard of considering the community more trustworthy, and yet giving it so much slack when intentional misinformation is spread.
 

NPC009

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Sigmund Av Volsung said:
Probably cause there's a divide between reviewers and gamers that has been getting wider over time. Reviewers get their games for free (most of the time) and therefore don't have the same understanding of value that consumers do.
Yeah, uh, that's just not true at all.

1. The games we get are job-related 99% of the time, meaning we have to review them. Many freelancers earn very little from reviews (article rates vary from $20 to $150 or so), meaning it wouldn't even be reasonable to expect them to pay for the games they have to review. You can't play a game 8-12 hours a day, hand the review before the tight deadline and still consider it a hobby.

2. Sure, occasionally we do get a leftover code, but that's mostly just games that weren't deemed interesting enough to review. (Magazines have a limited number of pages. Websites have a budget, they can't commission more articles than the budget allows.)

3. This might come as a surprise, but game critics like games. We still buy things we're interested in with our own money. I know what 40 bucks feels like. Heck, I know that feel better than most people, because I'm being paid shit and 40 bucks is nearly two weeks worth of food.


A good recent example is Mad Max, a game that reviewers gave a good paddling for being boring and uninspiring, but one that gamers overall liked because it had a good value proposition and decent content for the price.
Mad Max has a metacritic score of ~70. Doesn't seem they were overly harsh, atleast to me. I've given many games I like 7s, and there are also plenty of games I like that have recieved 7s from others.

And hey, you should consider the context: game critics play a lot of games. They're quicker to spot games that fail to do anything new or special. And you know what? That's a good thing. There are many, many games that offers loads of content, and many are (much) better than Mad Max. A decent amount of content alone is not enough to rain praise.

Another thing to consider is that not everyone sees games as just something to pass the time with. Many people are looking for games they'll remember, stories and characters that leave an impression, or original level design that forces them to think out of the box - something special. Some of the best games out there aren't particularly long, but they make every bit of playtime count. Considering that many critics have more games to they want to play and than time to actually play them (I know I do!), you shouldn't look surprised if they pick quality over quantity.

Of course, both quality and quantity should be adressed in a review, but in the end value is something very personal. Some people consider spending $50 on a night drinking with friends good value, some would rather buy a new game (or a dozen games during the Steam sales!), while others have no choice but to put it towards the rent or other bills. Judging someone for having somewhat different ideas of what a good balance between quantity and quality is, is useless and a bit childish, if you ask me.


There's also scores. This varies between individuals, but to me, scores are useless.

Many critics agree. Do you know why we still use them? Because a majority of readers wants us to. They feel we aren't doing our job if you aren't putting numbers on everything.

To be fair, scores do serve a purpose, especially in the age of Metacritic. They make it easy to look up various opinions. Want to read both a negative and a positive review to get a better understanding of the game you're thinking about buying? Just click on a review what comes with a '4' attached and one that sports a '8'. Easy.

However, whether you're in favor of scores or not, you should always read the text itself. The score is (or atleast, should be) merely a reflection of that.

(Of course, there's also a reason why websites want to use scores: scores lead the way to Metacritic and being on metacritic is great exposure. And yes, you do need that exposure, because more clicks lead to better ad deals, and more ad revenue means being able to afford better/more content.)
 

MrFalconfly

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Areloch said:
I'd say a large part of it is because journalists - not just gaming - very rarely do any fact checking and instead just curb to clickbait or completely unchecked, unsubstantiated reports and throw them up on the internet to 'get the scoop', which means that most journalistic outlets are very largely just reporting trash. Compound this further by some "journalists"(glorified bloggers) who are convinced that there's not any real difference between an official article/review and an op-ed.

Game journalism also has the added bonus of a bad history of selling out to publishers so it's even harder to believe anything they put out is legitimate.

I mean, here's a fun example how how much un-effort goes into checking anything by a bunch of different places: https://www.reddit.com/r/thedivision/comments/4g6osh/hey_rthedivision_agents_im_sorry/

Someone on reddit did a hoax post about a glitch they found in The Division. No pictures, no video. Not only did the commentors on the original thread eat it up without checking(apparently some people that did try to check and found it wrong got downvoted into oblivion) but then several game news sites reported it flat without verifying anything.

Stuff like that is why games journalism has such a negative impression with people anymore.
Yeah. It's not just Gaming Journalism.

It's as if the entire field of journalism has decided that they're going to refuse to do any research about a story they're reporting on.

If a newspaper is reporting on astronomy you can be damned well sure that it's either going to be inaccurate, or wrong. If a news broadcast is reporting on soldiers dying in Afghanistan, you can be sure that they either don't realize what the soldiers were doing, or why they were there.

So the question is, if the news reporters get the "nerdy" stuff wrong, about science, or technology, or warfare, then why do we believe them when they talk about politics and economics.

If the journalists refuse to do any research about any subjects, then why should I feel anything other than scepticism and negativism towards them?
 

manolocego11

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Plenty of reasons people have become hostile to game journos:
http://www.deepfreeze.it/

And this piece in particular explains the moment when game jouros & gamers entered real conflict. I've been gaming all of my life, and up in till that point, I've never seen so much negativity towards the gaming press.
http://www.deepfreeze.it/article.php?a=enemy
 

Sigmund Av Volsung

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NPC009 said:
Sigmund Av Volsung said:
Rebuttal 1

Rebuttal 2


Rebuttal to scores
Job related or not, that doesn't mean that the majority of your exposure to games isn't free. You guys aren't like pirates who can get anything for free for the sake of entertainment, but considering the fact that you are observing and evaluating the game for said entertainment value, I can understand why a lot of regular gamers take umbrage with stuff like say, Gone Home(not related to you specifically).

It doesn't mean that you guys don't have a grasp on value, but it is a fact that you guys are exposed to games in a different way to everyone else. Job-wise or not, regardless if you buy games you don't get through code or just because you want to give back, there is still a divide, and I can understand why because of it some people may not trust games journalists to properly represent them. I understand how unfeasible the alternative would be, as well as the fact that it's a reality of dealing with a luxury hobby like video games, but it is something that influences gamers' opinions of the scene.

RE: Mad Max

That encapsulates a lot of issues that people have with journos. For one, a 7/10 on Metacritic doesn't just mean that 'it's a good game but not worth its asking price' because of the culture that scores have bred. A lot of people take it personally, and they take it especially personally if they enjoy a game like this for its popcorn-entertainment value. This is a flawed view, but to them it will discourage others from playing the game regardless of how engaging it may be, because said scores wield a stupidly arbitrary power in the games industry(let's not forget Fallout New Vegas whilst we're at it). Taste is subjective, yes, but this was one of the most recent examples where there was a very noticeable difference in opinions between the press and the gaming audience at large, and I don't think you can attribute that solely to individual taste.

Yes, reviwers have to play through a lot of crap often and are therefore better at spotting poorer game design, but this was almost unanimous. It again went back to value proposition argument that a lot of gamers have problems with, because the press in question get said game as part of their job, and therefore fundamentally lose a sense of risk and investment for that particular game. It's not that they never experience that, but regular gamers experience it far more often, and are more willing to compromise in order for a game to just fill the time and make light entertainment instead of having to be the next Dark Souls.

TotalBiscuit explains it much better than I ever will, since I am arguing for the sake of other people. Personally, I didn't really care much for Mad Max since it wasn't a game that piqued my interest to begin with, and I'm in a good enough position where I have many alternatives to traditional gaming press with which to decide on a purchase. But this is a reality; it's like the divide between film critics and Hardcore Henry. Some people enjoyed it just for the spectacle and forgave everything just for its presentation alone, but because the story wasn't engaging and the cinematography was just an excuse to frame the action in an otherwise gimmicky way, a lot of film critics thought it was mediocre.


RE: Scores

That self-perpetuating problem is why I despise them even more and why I think metacritic should be done away with. It's simple to say 'just read the review' but a lot of people won't. Justifying it by saying that metacritic gives exposure and that's what matters just makes me feel disheartened about the state of the press. It makes it seem, well, desperate as a field and that leads to unfortunate implications, especially whenever we get to sponsored content. The doom of Eurogamer might serve as an example with which to discourage getting rid of scores, but considering how many people have made careers out of not giving scores, I frankly don't buy that. I don't know, maybe it's a new media vs. old media type of thing and that's what needs to change. Readers can say that they prefer scores, but a lot of readers probably watch Let's Plays and TB's influence looms large over PC gaming at this moment, so either they're hypocrites, or the issue resides elsewhere on how to evaluate a game with or without scores.
 

NPC009

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Sigmund Av Volsung said:
Job related or not, that doesn't mean that the majority of your exposure to games isn't free. You guys aren't like pirates who can get anything for free for the sake of entertainment, but considering the fact that you are observing and evaluating the game for said entertainment value, I can understand why a lot of regular gamers take umbrage with stuff like say, Gone Home(not related to you specifically).
Sure, we get stuff for free, but many (most?) of us are still spending a lot of money on games. I don't see why not having to pay for some games negates the experience of paying for games.


(And it's not just games, by the way. The average critic has to pay for his/her own systems as well. Console companies hand out some systems to big publications and perhaps some individual critics who get a lot of exposure, but paying for systems out of your own pocket is the norm. Even with pc hardware reviews you don't usually get to keep the components, they need to be handed in again after your time with them is up. That's why it's a big deal when a publisher tries to give a gaming system to a critic - it goes way beyond what's seen as normal.)

It doesn't mean that you guys don't have a grasp on value, but it is a fact that you guys are exposed to games in a different way to everyone else. Job-wise or not, regardless if you buy games you don't get through code or just because you want to give back, there is still a divide, and I can understand why because of it some people may not trust games journalists to properly represent them. I understand how unfeasible the alternative would be, as well as the fact that it's a reality of dealing with a luxury hobby like video games, but it is something that influences gamers' opinions of the scene.
There will always be a divide between the professionals and the fans. Professional critics can devote their time to playing games because they're being paid. Granted, the circumstances under which they play those games aren't always ideal, but the knowledge and experience gained through playing all those games isn't something that can easily be replicated. It's not wonder most videogame critics started out as fans with a way beyond avarage interest in the medium.

But there, it's not as if there's no alternative for those who will never trust anyone who's more invested in the hobby than they are. There are user/reader reviews everywhere.

RE: Mad Max

That encapsulates a lot of issues that people have with journos. For one, a 7/10 on Metacritic doesn't just mean that 'it's a good game but not worth its asking price' because of the culture that scores have bred. A lot of people take it personally, and they take it especially personally if they enjoy a game like this for its popcorn-entertainment value. This is a flawed view, but to them it will discourage others from playing the game regardless of how engaging it may be, because said scores wield a stupidly arbitrary power in the games industry(let's not forget Fallout New Vegas whilst we're at it). Taste is subjective, yes, but this was one of the most recent examples where there was a very noticeable difference in opinions between the press and the gaming audience at large, and I don't think you can attribute that solely to individual taste.
Fans played an equal, if not larger role in creating this score obsessed culture. They people who can't/refuse to use scores as what they're actually are only have themselves to blame.

As for the difference in opinions, I don't think this is such a big deal as people are making it. First of all because a 7 is, like we both agree, a fine score. Second, there's the expectations people have. There are so, so many games out there you could only play games that score 90 or higher on Metacritic and still not have enough time to play them all. From my experience, most people who read reviews mostly stick with games that get a 8/10 or higher, occasionally buying something else just because it's based on an IP they like or is part of a series they're a longtime fan of. Sometimes that game ends up getting a 7, a score they thought was only for games that are unworthy of their time, and they take it personally. Which is weird, because the industry is filled with somewhat above avarage games that are entertaining despite their flaws.

Yes, reviwers have to play through a lot of crap often and are therefore better at spotting poorer game design, but this was almost unanimous. It again went back to value proposition argument that a lot of gamers have problems with, because the press in question get said game as part of their job, and therefore fundamentally lose a sense of risk and investment for that particular game. It's not that they never experience that, but regular gamers experience it far more often, and are more willing to compromise in order for a game to just fill the time and make light entertainment instead of having to be the next Dark Souls.
I think you're overestimating the effect the costs have on the experience the game offers. Unless the buying of the game is a emotional experience by itself (I know it can be for some people - that's why things like midnight launches exist), it doesn't really matter if you paid for it yourself or not. Like I said, most critics are adults with enough life experience to know what $50 feel like. They've felt it many times before. If needed, they can attach that feeling to whatever they're reviewing. I know I do. Even if I get a game for free, I still look up its price and adjust my recommendation if needed.

That said, you also have to keep in mind that prices tend to drop within a year and there are always sales going on somewhere. Gone Home is like 80% off during most Steam Sales, for instance. The price of a game is not stagnant, and you should not treat it as such when rating the game.

RE: Scores

That self-perpetuating problem is why I despise them even more and why I think metacritic should be done away with. It's simple to say 'just read the review' but a lot of people won't.
That's not something critics can take responsibility for, though. A review is a service we offer. If the readers decides to use it wrong or not use it at all, there's little the critic can do about it.

Similarly, a score can be part of that service, as is Metacritic. It's an useful service that's often abused.

Justifying it by saying that metacritic gives exposure and that's what matters just makes me feel disheartened about the state of the press.
Why? Advertising your a publication is expensive and not something most websites and magazines can afford. Metacritic can be a useful way to increase your visibility, and users benefit from having more sourches easily available to them as well. Again, just because Metacritic is sometimes used for evil does not mean the service itself is evil or everyone who uses it is.

It makes it seem, well, desperate as a field and that leads to unfortunate implications, especially whenever we get to sponsored content.
Sponsored content is a very different problem. With Metacritic I'd sooner worry about clickbaity scores (extremely high or low scores that attract attention), users abusing user reviews (metabombing games they have strong feeling about), and/or publishers attaching punishing developers for not attaining certain scores.


The doom of Eurogamer might serve as an example with which to discourage getting rid of scores, but considering how many people have made careers out of not giving scores, I frankly don't buy that. I don't know, maybe it's a new media vs. old media type of thing and that's what needs to change. Readers can say that they prefer scores, but a lot of readers probably watch Let's Plays and TB's influence looms large over PC gaming at this moment, so either they're hypocrites, or the issue resides elsewhere on how to evaluate a game with or without scores.
I think most people just view LPs and reviews differently. To them, a LP is just a fellow fan talking about a game. However, a review is this big deal where a professional critic passes judgment on a game. And then that judgment ends up on Metacritic for all to see, and *gasp* influence the definitive judgment (as in: the metacritic score)! A bad score could forever taint the game - no, not the game, the thing they care about!

My guess is that if youtube critics started handing out scores and those score ended up on sites like Metacritic, they'd be swiftly moved to the 'critical scum - do not trust!' bucket by many gamers.
 

Lightspeaker

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CaitSeith said:
The irony about this is that the gaming community was the first one to fall for it and they kept perpetuaiting it; but only the websites are to be shamed. It's funny this standard of considering the community more trustworthy, and yet giving it so much slack when intentional misinformation is spread.
There's a very, very simple reason for this: the websites are to be shamed and the 'gaming community' not because its not the job of the 'gaming community' to do journalism. You can call people naive for believing silly things, but there's no real shame involved in being taken in by a hoax because its not their job to identify hoaxes.

There is no double standard because you're comparing apples with oranges. I play games, I do not get paid to write articles on gaming news or even do it as a hobby. If I get taken in by a dumb hoax then whatever, it doesn't matter because its not expected of me to actually do any due diligence on it. In contrast it is absolutely expected that any journalistic publication maintain a level of integrity and actually do some work to verify news stories rather than just regurgitating them blindly.

Its the same difference between random people on facebook posting articles from NewsThump or The Onion and believing them, and the same articles being reported on by the BBC as actual news. One has an inherent duty to actually verify, the other does not (although ideally they would, many don't out of sheer laziness).
 

CaitSeith

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Lightspeaker said:
CaitSeith said:
The irony about this is that the gaming community was the first one to fall for it and they kept perpetuaiting it; but only the websites are to be shamed. It's funny this standard of considering the community more trustworthy, and yet giving it so much slack when intentional misinformation is spread.
There's a very, very simple reason for this: the websites are to be shamed and the 'gaming community' not because its not the job of the 'gaming community' to do journalism. You can call people naive for believing silly things, but there's no real shame involved in being taken in by a hoax because its not their job to identify hoaxes.

There is no double standard because you're comparing apples with oranges. I play games, I do not get paid to write articles on gaming news or even do it as a hobby. If I get taken in by a dumb hoax then whatever, it doesn't matter because its not expected of me to actually do any due diligence on it. In contrast it is absolutely expected that any journalistic publication maintain a level of integrity and actually do some work to verify news stories rather than just regurgitating them blindly.

Its the same difference between random people on facebook posting articles from NewsThump or The Onion and believing them, and the same articles being reported on by the BBC as actual news. One has an inherent duty to actually verify, the other does not (although ideally they would, many don't out of sheer laziness).
You can say I'm comparing apples with oranges. But those who say that they prefer to get their games info from the comunity rather than websites are inherently doing the comparison too.

PS: Your avatar looks kinda different. New haircut?
 

sageoftruth

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Fat_Hippo said:
mduncan50 said:
It's not just gaming, it's any medium with a degree of fanboyism. Just look at how the critical response to Dawn of Justice was met with screams of "bought by Disney" or "hates comic books". End of the day, a review is just one person's opinion of their experience with a product. Your best bet is to find a few that seem to have the same sensibilities that you do, and not pay too much attention to the rest, and you'll make yourself a lot happier.
I think you've hit the nail on the head. It's the aspect of geek culture I dislike most. They invest so heavily into whatever appeals to their tastes that they start to feel this extreme protectiveness for it, and their game/movie/comic/etc. must be defended from all who would say bad things about it. Or on the other end of the spectrum, they grow so very angry whenever somebody makes something that offends them or their tastes in any way.

There's no real rationale behind it, they aren't helping their respective medium with their misplaced rage, they just make thing harder for everyone. It's bloody everywhere in the sphere of video game culture. I really doubt theater or music critics have to deal with the level of vitriol that game critics or journalists so frequently do. Whereas here, it's more like: write one review that a lot of people disagree with and hear shit about it for years afterwards.
I agree with you, but I'm pretty sure music critics have it pretty rough as well. If Justin Beiber or any number of history's boy bands are anything to go by, teenage fangirls can be a pretty savage bunch.
 

Fat Hippo

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sageoftruth said:
Fat_Hippo said:
mduncan50 said:
It's not just gaming, it's any medium with a degree of fanboyism. Just look at how the critical response to Dawn of Justice was met with screams of "bought by Disney" or "hates comic books". End of the day, a review is just one person's opinion of their experience with a product. Your best bet is to find a few that seem to have the same sensibilities that you do, and not pay too much attention to the rest, and you'll make yourself a lot happier.
I think you've hit the nail on the head. It's the aspect of geek culture I dislike most. They invest so heavily into whatever appeals to their tastes that they start to feel this extreme protectiveness for it, and their game/movie/comic/etc. must be defended from all who would say bad things about it. Or on the other end of the spectrum, they grow so very angry whenever somebody makes something that offends them or their tastes in any way.

There's no real rationale behind it, they aren't helping their respective medium with their misplaced rage, they just make thing harder for everyone. It's bloody everywhere in the sphere of video game culture. I really doubt theater or music critics have to deal with the level of vitriol that game critics or journalists so frequently do. Whereas here, it's more like: write one review that a lot of people disagree with and hear shit about it for years afterwards.
I agree with you, but I'm pretty sure music critics have it pretty rough as well. If Justin Beiber or any number of history's boy bands are anything to go by, teenage fangirls can be a pretty savage bunch.
True, but are Justin Bieber fangirls really reading Rolling Stone Magazine?

Ehh, I probably shouldn't make any assumptions. Not like I have a great base of knowledge about Bieberettes or whatever they're called.
 

Danbo Jambo

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I genuinely find most modern day "pro" reviews......

1) Make a judgement with the fanbase opinion in mind;
2) Make a judgement with modern gaming trends in mind;
3) Over-rate hyped games, whilst underating lesser know releases.

They tell you what they think you want to hear, and what will attract them the most attention/advertising/sponsorship/money.

I have worked in the music industry, and seen many occasions where money changes hands for 5 star reviews of products some reviewers haven't even watched or listened too. I struggle to believe this practice doesn't exist in the gaming industry too.

Personally, I trust user opinions much, much more.
 

CaitSeith

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Danbo Jambo said:
I genuinely find most modern day "pro" reviews......

1) Make a judgement with the fanbase opinion in mind;
2) Make a judgement with modern gaming trends in mind;
3) Over-rate hyped games, whilst underating lesser know releases.

They tell you what they think you want to hear, and what will attract them the most attention/advertising/sponsorship/money.

I have worked in the music industry, and seen many occasions where money changes hands for 5 star reviews of products some reviewers haven't even watched or listened too. I struggle to believe this practice doesn't exist in the gaming industry too.

Personally, I trust user opinions much, much more.
I don't trust much user opinions either. While website reviews may be blinded by the shine of money, the user reviews are more likely to be blinded by the shine of hype and fanboyism. Neither of the three are good influences for a review (two of them are works of deceit).
 

RedDeadFred

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From what I've seen of the various fanbases on the internet, gamers can often be the most rabid. So many of them hold some weird loyalty to franchises and developers. When those franchises produce a less than fantastic product and the reviewers say so, there seems to be more gnashing of teeth from the fanbase than in other mediums. Maybe it's partly to do with how games are scored in a pretty inconsistent fashion compared to other mediums (a 5/10 often means the game is garbage whereas the same score given to a movie usually means that a lot of people will still enjoy it), but if you actually READ the reviews, you can still get a good sense of what works and doesn't work with the game. The problem is, so many of these individuals merely scroll to the score and then rush to leave a comment while thinking that they've made some great difference in the world. Most of this I think comes down to gamers feeling more personally invested in the products they consume. Maybe that's due to games being more expensive maybe it's due to an overall younger consumer base (that's just me guessing, I have no idea on those statistics).

Basically, a lot of factors contribute to the negativity and most of them are beyond the journalist's control.
 

NiPah

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manolocego11 said:
Hey guys, I wanted to talk about something that I've been noticing for a while. There's been a lot of negativism towards gaming journalism like when users are discontent with the score that has been giving to a specific game. I admit I saw a review once here that was the complete opposite of what I thought and went to reddit to discuss and even share some negativism towards the website (I'm sorry escapist people, you have a great website going on) however after later on I realized that the reviewers are people just like us. They are in a way sharing an opinion with more detail.

It's true that there is possibly reviewers that get paid to give good scores and all that but I still think that there shoudn't be so much negativity towards a reviewer that gives a score you don't agree with.
I find it kindof ironic, people have made some very strong points on why games/art can and should be judged and critiqued.

Now apply those same points to game reviews.

Just like the games they're reviewing, the reviews themselves can and should be judged and critiqued, what is their value, what points do they make and what is their place in the world. You say reviewers are people just like us, well game designers are too, and that doesn't stop game reviewers from judging games, if a game is crap it'll get negative reviews, if a game review is crap, well that too is going to get negative reviews, hell even the comments of the review get judged with little thumb ups or downs, people love to cast their judgement on things, just human nature.

We can accept that not all games are good, there are some pretty crap ones out there, but don't fall into the trap of thinking all reviews are good. Sure maybe you can make the claim that a review is a tool more then a piece of entertainment, but we judge tools more harshly then we judge entertainment, a hammer that doesn't work is worthless, and a review that doesn't tell you exactly which games you'll enjoy is also worthless, take that element out and reviews are just entertainment like everything else.
 

Danbo Jambo

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CaitSeith said:
Danbo Jambo said:
I genuinely find most modern day "pro" reviews......

1) Make a judgement with the fanbase opinion in mind;
2) Make a judgement with modern gaming trends in mind;
3) Over-rate hyped games, whilst underating lesser know releases.

They tell you what they think you want to hear, and what will attract them the most attention/advertising/sponsorship/money.

I have worked in the music industry, and seen many occasions where money changes hands for 5 star reviews of products some reviewers haven't even watched or listened too. I struggle to believe this practice doesn't exist in the gaming industry too.

Personally, I trust user opinions much, much more.
I don't trust much user opinions either. While website reviews may be blinded by the shine of money, the user reviews are more likely to be blinded by the shine of hype and fanboyism. Neither of the three are good influences for a review (two of them are works of deceit).
True, but to me false user reviews are far easier to spot, with genuine user opinions also easier to spot as a concequence too.
 

SecondPrize

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In other trade press' the journalists tended towards actually having training or education in journalism. In the gaming trade press this is very much not the case. Critiquing or reviewing is taught. There is a glaring difference between a review from someone who bothered to learn the craft they chose to practice and a review from someone who woke up and decided that they were a journalist. Check out Tom Chick at quartertothree if you want to see video critique done by someone who bothered to learn their chosen craft. Most of the pushback you find is against hacks who don't know what the fuck they're doing and it shows in their work.
 

johnnyboy2537

New member
Nov 28, 2012
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It's because a lot of times they ignore or miss blatant flaws or are obviously corrupt. Were you around when Dragon Age 2 or Resident Evil 5 came out? One was terrible and the other was mediocre but plenty of sites gave them glowing reviews. I noticed plenty of sites having ads for DA2 and RE5 before their releases and wasn't surprised in the least when I saw those review scores. Game reviewing has been broken a long time due to a mix of corruption and, over the last 5 years anyway, ideological nepotism.
 

Conner42

Senior Member
Jul 29, 2009
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When I used to work on a website, I wrote an article talking about the problems with gaming journalism and I think it's because the game companies, the reviewers, and the audience have too much of an influence on each other. It's no surprise when nobody really talks about how good they thought the game was until a couple of years later. When GTAV came out, nobody wanted to see anything less than a perfect score even if the reviewer did find problems with the game. Nobody would or was even allowed to have a deep discussion about the game because everybody was too emotionally involved and the hype was way too high.

I haven't been keeping up a lot, but it seems to be getting a little better. AAA games are gradually getting lower scores when I visit Metacritic, probably because critics are getting tired of playing the same fucking crap they've always been playing for the past few years.

To use myself as an example, though, if a website wants to keep it up in the world, they need to form good relationships with publishers and it can be ruined if the site gives their game a bad review. My boss saw my review and thought it was good, but he bumped the score up a little bit which pissed me off because I was already being generous in how I scored it.

It's a long and winding road before we get to a place where critics can actually say anything meaningful without them having to worry about fan or company reactions.
 

Ryallen

Will never say anything smart
Feb 25, 2014
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NewClassic said:
I'm assuming that you're using Polygon as your primary issue with progressive politics in game reviews. However, the game that is often trotted out for these discussions is The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt, which Arthur Gies rated 8 out of 10 [http://www.polygon.com/2015/5/13/8533059/the-witcher-3-review-wild-hunt-PC-PS4-Xbox-one], despite having mild criticisms about the game's lack of diversity in race. The piece most people use to make this point is an op-ed piece written by Tauriq Moosa [http://www.polygon.com/2015/6/3/8719389/colorblind-on-witcher-3-rust-and-gamings-race-problem], which isn't a review.

Nor is the Rock Band 4 piece [http://www.polygon.com/2015/6/1/8687867/rock-band-4-preview] you're referring to, which was from a press preview event. Polygon and Griffin McElroy rated it 7.5 out of 10 [http://www.polygon.com/2015/10/9/9484089/rock-band-4-review], which is generally favorable.
Personally, I've learned not to trust anything that comes out of their mouths after the fiasco that was their Bayonetta 2 review. They said that the game was really good, but held back by its representation of its main character. As in, not a flaw with the gameplay, story, or even programming, but the sexism that the reviewer thought that they saw within the game. Now, I understand that reviewers can't be objective 100% of the time. I get that. Heck, I'm struggling not to stop typing this right now. It's his opinion and he has a right to express it. However, that does not excuse the fact that Arthur Gies found a rather worthwhile action game and he marked it down what was probably a full point and a half because he felt offended by the game's content. His only grievance with the game was Bayonetta and her various mannerisms and he felt it was necessary include what was actually his only problem. Here's the review.

Bayonetta 2 review [http://www.polygon.com/2014/10/13/6957677/bayonetta-2-review-wii-u]
 

Lightspeaker

New member
Dec 31, 2011
934
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CaitSeith said:
You can say I'm comparing apples with oranges. But those who say that they prefer to get their games info from the comunity rather than websites are inherently doing the comparison too.
A very fair point but ultimately people can choose to take their information where they want from. That still doesn't mean their source is trying to maintain any journalistic integrity. People tend to expect a certain level of fact-checking and actual effort put into their work by any publication that is trying to present itself as even semi-professional.

Put another way...if a random youtube comment says that Earl Grey Tea cures cancer then people are free to believe them, but the person who made said comment doesn't have any professional standing. If an actual oncologist says that then one would expect to be able to trust what they say somewhat more. However if the second case is getting their information from the first case without doing any fact checking or work of their own then they're behaving grossly negligently and without integrity; because there's a level of responsibility that comes with being in a...yes...more responsible position.


In the end, people are free to make the choice of what they trust. And frankly I think its rather damning to the state of journalism in the gaming press that people trust 'the community' more than they trust actual gaming websites. It shows how poorly said journalistic outlets are viewed that people would literally rather anyone else.


PS: Your avatar looks kinda different. New haircut?
Heh, after my image got removed when the whole thing about random people getting Pub Club I decided to switch from Kerrigan at long last.

Really one of these days I should upload a picture of my own but I'm a bit lazy about it. X-D