A quarter million people petition for the Westboro Baptist Church to be reclassified as a hate group

[MrFalconfly]

they suck as ppl but everyone has a right to their own opinion and beliefs

captcha happy full moon. watch out

No one is denying their right to an opinion or belief.

They're just trying to put a stop to the picketing (which I'm all for. It shouldn't be legal to cause harm at funerals just because some lawyer aparrantly sees an = sign between "picketing at funerals" and "free speech").

 

[HardkorSB]

Is freedom of speech more important than the right to mourn in peace?

Yes, yes it is.

Everyone pretty much already treats them as a joke. There's no need to take away their rights.
Imagine this petition thing goes through. How many politicians and interest groups will start to use the same process to silence people that "offend" them?

Life isn't an internet forum. You can't ban people for saying something you don't like (or at least, you shouldn't be able to).

 

[Maze1125]

Is freedom of speech more important than the right to mourn in peace?

Yes, yes it is.

Everyone pretty much already treats them as a joke. There's no need to take away their rights.
Imagine this petition thing goes through. How many politicians and interest groups will start to use the same process to silence people that "offend" them?

Life isn't an internet forum. You can't ban people for saying something you don't like (or at least, you shouldn't be able to).

And how far are you willing to take that?
Harassment laws already exist in America, as discussed above, so it is already against the law to say something that someone doesn't like, so long as you do it often enough.
Assuming that you agree with the harassment laws, where exactly should the line be drawn? What's the difference between 5 times and 6 times, beyond a judge's subjective opinion that one was too much while the other wasn't?

Well, here's my subjective opinion. If you're intentionally picketing a funeral, that's too much.

 

[Abomination]

i hate WBC just like any other guy, but thats exactly the point. does our hate justify banning them? wouldn't then their hate justify banning us? of is this a "we have more people therefore we are correct" type of thing? and if "They are bad enough" and "average christian" is "not bad enough" who is to decide that? where do we draw the line? how do we know how much hate is ok and how much is too much?
im obviously playing devils advocate here, but when you can use our own argument against us doesn't that kinda make us hypocrites. i would like all religion to go away as well. but do i have the right to make it so? no. i would be no better than the people who claim that gays arent human.
this thread do belong in that section, but i have no moderating power to make it so.

Banning them isn't about hate. It's about the fact that they cause harm to others, non-physical harm, but harm nevertheless.

Quite frankly, it is absurd that America has let this continue for so long, any other country would have had those cult leaders locked up years ago. They've gone beyond free-speech into pure harassment a long time ago.

Do they? They picket a funeral, and then move onto the next one. That isn't harassment. Harassment (as far as legal precedent in the US goes) involves extended, repeated, intentional, directed attacks against a single person or group.

If they CONTINUED to attack a specific family, then it would be harassment. The court, every time it comes up, agrees.

Whether they're trolls or they seriously believe the shit that they spew, all they've done is piss people off, nothing more, making calls to action against them, in my opinion, silly. Just ignore them, and they'll fade away.

The problem here is you can't REPEATEDLY protest the same funeral. I mean, most times you only have one for a particular person, right?

Do we have to dig up the person, hold another funeral and hope they come along again so we can finally go "A-hah! We got you!"

Seems a little absurd.

 

[Childe]

People should be allowed to voice their opinions, but what those people do...go out of there way to make people feel like shit. I would personally love to burn that fucking church down.

There is no love, faith or understanding in that place. It isn't a church, it is a sewer.

I agree, it is a hate group.

church is not about love or understanding, purely faith. blind faith is what WBC do and that is what makes them a church. not a very good one but still a church. if you want to ban them ban all churches, else where do we draw the line? how much hate is too much?

I would disagree with that actually. Christianity is very much about love and understanding even if the people who practice the religion in this day and age don't. The Church is also built on love and understanding not just blind faith though faith is a part of it. The main problem with the WBC is that they either don't understand the eternal love of God or they don't want too. Or they are just trying to make Christians look worse then they actually are. At any rate while it saddens me to see them as a hate group at this point it looks like it. Though as soon as they make a legitimate change i would ask that they be taken off the hate group list.

 

[lechat]

they suck as ppl but everyone has a right to their own opinion and beliefs

captcha happy full moon. watch out

No one is denying their right to an opinion or belief.

They're just trying to put a stop to the picketing (which I'm all for. It shouldn't be legal to cause harm at funerals just because some lawyer aparrantly sees an = sign between "picketing at funerals" and "free speech").

public street = right to speak
private property = get the fuck out

try and keep in mind that 90 years ago you would have got your ass handed to you if you dared speak in public about, gay rights, women's rights or racial equality and while i don't think these guys are gonna be the next step in advancing us as a society they have every right to express their opinions as long as it doesn't harm others. but sure you guys keep talking about murdering them or burning down buildings cause that definitely proves you are better ppl

here's an idea. how bout the next time one of these fucktards dies y'all get together and picket their funeral. maybe make some signs that says "god hates churches who hates fags" or "there is no god" or whatever you think would piss them off the most cause i would actually love to see what happens lol

 

[Yellowbeard]

Is freedom of speech more important than the right to mourn in peace?

Yes, yes it is.

Everyone pretty much already treats them as a joke. There's no need to take away their rights.
Imagine this petition thing goes through. How many politicians and interest groups will start to use the same process to silence people that "offend" them?

Life isn't an internet forum. You can't ban people for saying something you don't like (or at least, you shouldn't be able to).

I agree.

Also, people have been pointing out that there's no such thing (legally) as a 'hate group' in the US, so the petition is nonsense.

 

[Warachia]

church is not about love or understanding, purely faith. blind faith is what WBC do and that is what makes them a church. not a very good one but still a church. if you want to ban them ban all churches, else where do we draw the line? how much hate is too much?

ACTIONS are important, that is where WBC crossed the line several times, their actions are what defines them as a hate group regardless of what they claim, when you do nothing but hate people, and try to spread that hate, you are a hate group, I don't see why any sort of line needs to be drawn, or why you'd factor churches into this at all, since they clearly go against the religion they claim to follow, they could have been any sort of group, but if they still did what they do now, they'd be reclassified as a hate group.

 

[lechat]

please try and keep the thread free of religious stuff. i would really like this thread to still be here when i wake up tomorow

 

[V8 Ninja]

Looking at the Wikipedia entries for both "Hate Group" and "Hate Crime" (which are admittedly not the most reliable sources), there's nothing that Westboro Baptist Church has done to fit the criteria of hate group and I can't recall any actions they have done which would qualify as hate crimes.

Granted, I would love to see the WBC officially acknowledged as a group of terrible individuals (bumper stickers would do the trick), but the WBC has only voiced their opinion in a non-violent matter and has not advocated harming individuals. From what I'm reading, they can't be classified as a hate group, no matter how unlikeable they are.

 

[HardkorSB]

And how far are you willing to take that?
Harassment laws already exist in America, as discussed above, so it is already against the law to say something that someone doesn't like, so long as you do it often enough.
Assuming that you agree with the harassment laws, where exactly should the line be drawn? What's the difference between 5 times and 6 times, beyond a judge's subjective opinion that one was too much while the other wasn't?

Well, here's my subjective opinion. If you're intentionally picketing a funeral, that's too much.

In my lifetime, I've been insulted so many times in so many ways that I can't even begin to count them. Do you know what happened to me after that? Absolutely nothing.
Of course I'm against laws that tell me what I can and can't say. The fact that I can go to jail for saying a few words which don't carry any real weight is scary. If there are already laws like that then it's kind of sad, to be honest.

 

[SextusMaximus]

Someone who tells the families of dead soldiers their son was a "****** who is going to hell" while discriminating against the LGBT community and raising and nurturing hatred in all people are definitely a hate group. Undoubtedly.

 

[Maze1125]

And how far are you willing to take that?
Harassment laws already exist in America, as discussed above, so it is already against the law to say something that someone doesn't like, so long as you do it often enough.
Assuming that you agree with the harassment laws, where exactly should the line be drawn? What's the difference between 5 times and 6 times, beyond a judge's subjective opinion that one was too much while the other wasn't?

Well, here's my subjective opinion. If you're intentionally picketing a funeral, that's too much.

In my lifetime, I've been insulted so many times in so many ways that I can't even begin to count them. Do you know what happened to me after that? Absolutely nothing.
Of course I'm against laws that tell me what I can and can't say. The fact that I can go to jail for saying a few words which don't carry any real weight is scary. If there are already laws like that then it's kind of sad, to be honest.

Well, I'm glad for you that you're the sort of person who can ignore any comment that other say to you.
But others are not like that. Humans are a social species and, as such, many people can be significantly effected by words. There's little they can do about it, it's a matter of the way their brains are built, and those laws are made to protect them.

 

[Queen Michael]

Seems to me that the'yre all about hating things. How can a group that's all about hating things not be a hate group?

 

[MindFragged]

Looking at the Wikipedia entries for both "Hate Group" and "Hate Crime" (which are admittedly not the most reliable sources), there's nothing that Westboro Baptist Church has done to fit the criteria of hate group and I can't recall any actions they have done which would qualify as hate crimes.

Granted, I would love to see the WBC officially acknowledged as a group of terrible individuals (bumper stickers would do the trick), but the WBC has only voiced their opinion in a non-violent matter and has not advocated harming individuals. From what I'm reading, they can't be classified as a hate group, no matter how unlikeable they are.

This. Were they here in the UK they could probably be taken down on charges of inciting hatred as has been done (I think exclusively) with prominent jihadists. Your constitution wouldn't allow such laws though. The price of free speech is that despicable people get to air their views the same as people with something constructive to say. /platitudes

I propose a different petition where everyone agrees never to read, watch, or comment on anything the WBC does. Of course, just by posting this I've broken that

 

[Cette]

Is freedom of speech more important than the right to mourn in peace?

Yes, yes it is.

Everyone pretty much already treats them as a joke. There's no need to take away their rights.
Imagine this petition thing goes through. How many politicians and interest groups will start to use the same process to silence people that "offend" them?

Life isn't an internet forum. You can't ban people for saying something you don't like (or at least, you shouldn't be able to).

Very much this.


I don't care how much these guys are miserable scum fucks I don't want to live in place that can come after you legally for no more than shooting off your mouth.

Of course as far as I can tell labeling something a hate group means nothing from an official standpoint in the U.S. so it's more some sort of lashing out in principle.

And thus my principles lash right the hell back.

 

[Auron225]

They damn well should be classified as a hate group. I wouldn't even call them a church - I'd call them a hate group that happen to believe in God but couldn't get "Love thy neighbour as yourself" anymore wrong. Every act they commit defies what Christianity stands for.

 

[bananafishtoday]

Guys, there's no such thing as "legally recognizing" a hate group. If someone says XYZ is classified as a hate group, it probably means the Southern Poverty Law Center or the Anti-Defamation League has the group on their lists.

I'd agree they shouldn't be tax exempt, but that's something totally different. What the petition asks for just isn't a thing the US government actually does.

Is freedom of speech more important than the right to mourn in peace?

Yes.

 

[gibboss28]

Cool. Shame nothing will come of this, but oh well.

 

[Olas]

Is freedom of speech more important than the right to mourn in peace?

Yes, yes it is.

Everyone pretty much already treats them as a joke. There's no need to take away their rights.
Imagine this petition thing goes through. How many politicians and interest groups will start to use the same process to silence people that "offend" them?

Life isn't an internet forum. You can't ban people for saying something you don't like (or at least, you shouldn't be able to).

You HAVE to draw a line somewhere, you can't just treat freedom of speech like an unbending rule without exception. In many cases words are harmless, but not when you're picketing a funeral for a child in front of their mourning family. What WBC does is sadistic and extremely hurtful.

I'll defend the right to spew craziness on a street corner, or in a chapel, or website, have at it. But what Westboro Baptist Church is doing is borderline harassment, something which most places have laws against.