A quarter million people petition for the Westboro Baptist Church to be reclassified as a hate group

[Strazdas]

Snip

The thing is, though, labeling them a Hate Group in no way censors or infringes upon their rights. It takes away their Tax Exempt status, but that's about it. It isn't the government or the maority singling out a group of people and making them a target, it is society at large labeling a group for what it is: a hate group.

Is the KKK a church or a hate group? They claim that they act on a religious basis, so what's the difference? If WBC was labled a hate group, they'd still be able to make their signs and have their protests, just like how the KKK still has marches and protests of their own.

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and hates like a duck, then what you're looking at is a duck. A very disturbed, disgruntled duck, but a duck none the less.

i may have mentioned this before, but i believe no church whatsoever should have tax excempts.
majority singling out a group and hating it is worse than goverment doing that. it shows that majority is the hate group. KKK in my personal opinion is neither.
if a person in a duck costume walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and hates like a duck, does not mean you should shoot him like a duck.

 

[RJ 17]

if a person in a duck costume walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and hates like a duck, does not mean you should shoot him like a duck.

No, but it certainly does mean that they're trying their best to imitate a duck...and by "duck" I mean hate group.

Sooooooooooo I think I'm still missing your point. What's wrong with society labeling a group of hateful people as a hate group? The WBC isn't being punished. It's not being singled out and discriminated against as all your "Majority vs Minority" talk seems to believe.

 

[Charli]

...Yep, I'm okay with this.

Not infringing on their rights, it's just reclassifying them.

Do it.

 

[Maze1125]

tell that to censorship, pretty much all of it. slippery slope is not always a falacy.

Yes it is.
If something is wrong, then it is possible to explain why it is wrong itself rather than having to produce a scenario of fear by saying "Well yeah sure, ban that, but then what?"
Scaremongering isn't a valid substitute for an argument.
If you have to resort to it then you're practically admitting "Yeah, you're right, we should shut these people up, but I'm scared of what might happen after if you do." It's basically admitting that you have no real reason to claim these people should be allowed to say what they want.

If an argument is valid, then it is valid without scaremongering.
I can explain why they should be allowed free-speech for themselves, without any call to a slippery slope. Can you?

Those who give up liberty for security deserves neither and will loose both.

The original quote refers to essential liberty, not just liberty. The "right" to picket a funeral is not an essential liberty.

 

[Strazdas]

if a person in a duck costume walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and hates like a duck, does not mean you should shoot him like a duck.

No, but it certainly does mean that they're trying their best to imitate a duck...and by "duck" I mean hate group.

Sooooooooooo I think I'm still missing your point. What's wrong with society labeling a group of hateful people as a hate group? The WBC isn't being punished. It's not being singled out and discriminated against as all your "Majority vs Minority" talk seems to believe.

do you honestly believe that if we classify them as hategroup they wont be hated by many people? (then agian they already are, so yeah).

The original quote refers to essential liberty, not just liberty. The "right" to picket a funeral is not an essential liberty.

a right to freedom of speech is an essential liberty.

 

[Maze1125]

a right to freedom of speech is an essential liberty.

Yes, it is, but the right to freedom of speech does not require the ability to speak freely in every single way in every single location.

 

[Strazdas]

a right to freedom of speech is an essential liberty.

Yes, it is, but the right to freedom of speech does not require the ability to speak freely in every single way in every single location.

preaching their belief (as bad as it may be) on public property (street) should be allowed. msot movements that we take for granted now started this way.

You can have the right to free speech, but that does not mean they have the right to an audience.

Let them preach their hate in their lil bumbfuck church, not at peoples funerals.

then why do you give thme audience? why do you o watch the new reports about them, listen to their speech and complain about it? they have a right to be heard, but you have a right not to listen, you are not using that right.
they can preach on all public property. thats like saying we should lock all liberals in thier homes because we dont like what they are saying.

 

[Maze1125]

a right to freedom of speech is an essential liberty.

Yes, it is, but the right to freedom of speech does not require the ability to speak freely in every single way in every single location.

preaching their belief (as bad as it may be) on public property (street) should be allowed.

For the most part, yes. But that doesn't mean that near-by circumstances shouldn't also be considered.
Banning protests near funerals does not ban the act of protesting on the streets.

 

[Froggy Slayer]

People always think that freedom of speech means that you can say anything to anyone. Christ, why does this always happen?

 

[Vegosiux]

a right to freedom of speech is an essential liberty.

Just because you can say it doesn't mean I have to agree with it, like it, consider it acceptable, or listen to it at all.

People always think that freedom of speech means that you can say anything to anyone. Christ, why does this always happen?

Simple, because they only care about their own freedom of speech. Even if the "my freedom of speech is always more important than your freedom of speech" happens purely on the subconscious level.

 

[RJ 17]

if a person in a duck costume walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and hates like a duck, does not mean you should shoot him like a duck.

No, but it certainly does mean that they're trying their best to imitate a duck...and by "duck" I mean hate group.

Sooooooooooo I think I'm still missing your point. What's wrong with society labeling a group of hateful people as a hate group? The WBC isn't being punished. It's not being singled out and discriminated against as all your "Majority vs Minority" talk seems to believe.

do you honestly believe that if we classify them as hategroup they wont be hated by many people? (then agian they already are, so yeah).

My point exactly.

The original quote refers to essential liberty, not just liberty. The "right" to picket a funeral is not an essential liberty.

a right to freedom of speech is an essential liberty.

Again I point you to the hate group known as the KKK. They're not censored, they still have marches and rallies through towns with the full cooperation of the town (police protection, etc), just as the WBC will still be able to keep pissing people off with their protests.

 

[boradam]

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/legally-recognize-westboro-baptist-church-hate-group/DYf3pH2d

I have to say, I really don't have any problems with this, manly because they seem less like a religion and more like IRL trolls that are going out of their way to piss everyone that they don't like (IE everyone who isn't in their organization that doesn't reach into the three digits)

Even as a Christian, I think they go way too far -- this might be better for people to see.

 

[Patrick Buck]

These people aren't christans. They're arseholes. Christianity as SUPPOSED to be about loving one another. I'm not saying that's all it is anymore, but from what little I've picked up (Surprisingly little considering my father is a vicar) is that Jesus was generally a loving guy, who dedicated his life to peace. I'm not... Really a christian, because I'm a little to cynical to really beleive someone is looking over us, but when christiantity, and other religions encourage peace and loving, GO THEM. WOOHOO.

But then there are groups like this. They twist words, they misinterpret statements, and they change a well intended message into a one of hatred and cruelty and suffering. They are not a religous group, they're animals, tormenting the lives of people who lost loved ones, are differnetly orientated, or even just for not agreeing with them.

They are a hate group, and diserve that lable. Fuck, they practically DEFINE that lable.

 

[IamLEAM1983]

For every fair-minded believer who can look at the world and suffuse it with a little hope; for every theist who has enough maturity to understand that not everyone has the courage to abandon rationality and go with comforting parables and stories of a life beyond death; for every Christian I've spoken to that seemed to be genuinely curious about my lack of spiritual beliefs and my fairly solid trust in Science...

... I've met five or six who are close-minded about their faith and who use scare-mongering tactics the way some abusive cops stakeout overpass ramps for easy parking tickets. I've met more who refuse to even listen to logic in passing, because they absolutely know that their theories don't hold water. Denial being a comfortable state, they convince themselves that faith is enough. That no matter how hilariously false a statement of theirs can be, it's true because they believe in it. Two plus two equals five, in other words.

And that defines the WBC. That defines two or three sects we have around town who had the gall to push this end-times bullshit on their followers to weasel more money into the collection plate. That defines even some New Agers, who fell to the same tactic to push for book sales. Nibiru, whatever cosmic realignment was coming up, the dawn of the Age of Aquarius - whatever you'd call it, it's the exact same fucking thing. Or the British guy who harasses a fairly ordinary journalist because he's convinced his victim is the Maitreiya. Anyone who looks at pixellated footage up-scaled from an old VHS news tape and who sees "lizard people" or "demons" in the newscasters because two pixels don't line up right in the pupils or irises.

The infamous "weird part of YouTube" is a haven for this kind of drivel.

It's all just so sad, honestly. I'd sign that petition five hundred times on my own, if I were American.

 

[The Lesbian Flower]

Well, I just made an account and signed the petition. I suppose that's all I can do to combat these lunatics for now.

 

[The_Echo]

church is not about love or understanding, purely faith. blind faith is what WBC do and that is what makes them a church. not a very good one but still a church. if you want to ban them ban all churches, else where do we draw the line? how much hate is too much?

Westboro "follows" the Christian faith, which puts emphasis and love, empathy and forgiveness, among other things.

The WBC contorts the words of the Bible into nothing more than putrid hate-speech. Their official website is godhatesfags.com. One of their key members (can't recall the name) tweeted that she approved of the Sandy Hook shooting. How they fit into the "Baptist" part of their name is beyond me. As far as I know, they are the only Baptist 'church' to act like this.

To consider them a real church, I think, is fundamentally incorrect.

OT: Good. I hope this goes through.

 

[Strazdas]

I believe in giving people a fair shake, so I listened to One, ONE speech of theirs, beyond that I have never given them an audience, and to be fair if they decided to come preach at me they would have a matter of seconds to get off my property.

And if liberals went to peoples funerals and yelled hate at the family I would agree with locking those people in their homes too.

I would also be happy with killin them, but we sadly cant do that, labeling them as a hate group is the best we can do for now.

so, your worse than the people you try to get banned. go sit in the corner.

For the most part, yes. But that doesn't mean that near-by circumstances shouldn't also be considered.
Banning protests near funerals does not ban the act of protesting on the streets.

it does. baning protests on streets near funerals is baning protesting on streets. not all of them, but still.

Just because you can say it doesn't mean I have to agree with it, like it, consider it acceptable, or listen to it at all.

It also does not mean that you can hit me over the head because i want to say it.

People always think that freedom of speech means that you can say anything to anyone. Christ, why does this always happen?

Simple, because they only care about their own freedom of speech. Even if the "my freedom of speech is always more important than your freedom of speech" happens purely on the subconscious level.

all freedom of speech is equally important. but since you only care about yours and want to ban anothers, i find your reply ironic.

Westboro "follows" the Christian faith, which puts emphasis and love, empathy and forgiveness, among other things.

The WBC contorts the words of the Bible into nothing more than putrid hate-speech. Their official website is godhatesfags.com. One of their key members (can't recall the name) tweeted that she approved of the Sandy Hook shooting. How they fit into the "Baptist" part of their name is beyond me. As far as I know, they are the only Baptist 'church' to act like this.

To consider them a real church, I think, is fundamentally incorrect.

OT: Good. I hope this goes through.

as i have said before....
WBC is neither christian nor baptists. they are calvinists and that is what their official stance on their belief is. It does not fit with their name but thats how it is. They are however a real church. as real as any other church. just because their belief (right or wrong does not matter) is different than that of majority-liked church does not make them any less of a church.

Cpacha: sick puppy. yeah....