A question about Mass Effect 3's ending (spoiler alert)

[JellySlimerMan]

"Walk up to the Control Terminal and Shepard pulls out an Omni-tool and uploads Vigil?s data file. Which gives control of all the Citadel?s systems." [http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Race_Against_Time:_Final_Battle#The_Big_Decision]

Sounds like that program might have some extra benefits. It could also be that in the aftermath, steps were taken to prevent that from happening again by locking out the mass relay controls. Obviously they still require the Citadel arms to be capable of closing - whoops.

Or the Reapers were trolling people.

But so what if the console was modified after the fight with Sovereing? The Reapers MADE The Citadel and the Mass Relays, repairing a console is NOTHING compared to those feats. They should have gone to the Citadel ASAP and no one would be able to stop them.

 

[JellySlimerMan]

reapers in mass effect 3

Did anyone noticed that the shoots of the fleet in that battle missed the Reapers, and are now heading towards Earth?? meaning that those proyectiles that each Dreadnoughts missed, and that have the more destructive power than an atomic bomb (acording to the Codex), will destroy Earth or at least initiate a nuclear winter.

Opss.

 

[KB13]

When the Reapers conveniently captured the Citadel just as you discover it's the Catalyst, did everyone on board die? What happened to Captain Bailey, Barla Von, Aria T'Loak, Dr. Michel, the Blue Rose of Illium, the Council, the significant military and militia forces stationed there, the ambassadors and the tens of thousands of refugees?

Well the Council was most likely aboard the Destiny Ascension. Or even a human ship, after Udina's failed coup. Aria T'Loak perishing in an explosion or suffocating....Nope just don't see it happening. She and the rest of the population on the Citadel most likely died when the Reapers took control of the station(Eliminating everyone on board to fuel the next generation of Reapers and prevent a war from the inside where they knew; thanks to TIM, the Catalyst was) , sealed it and planted it in Earth's orbit. So KIA?

 

[Movitz]

They all died.

Or maybe not, I don't know. Sheperd survived somehow, but he's Space-Jesus so that may help you with the impossible odds thing.

All in all, Bioware obviously didn't but that much thought into Mass Effect 3. Which is sad, 'cause I really liked ME1 and 2. Especially ME1. May very well be my favourite game of all time.

 

[ThriKreen]

it still seems like a half baked excuse from bioware.
the human reaper we saw was quite large and imagining him crouching in his clown car sized squid power armour is just hillarious as it is dumb.

So a 15m (~50') tall human reaper core has to crouch in a 2km (~1.2 mile) long Reaper capital ship? While I don't know the exact dimensions, just eyeballing it, I'd have to make the height and width about 400m to make the box look about right for a reaper ship.

Heck, even scaling it up to 30m (~100') still leaves a lot of room. The size ratio is like you in comparison to a cruise liner.

 

[AT God]

I am pretty sure it isn't explained. I know that there are dead people, Shepard wakes up in a room full of them, but the game doesn't seem to give a good answer as to what happened. My guess is the explanation would be that they all got converted like the ones Shepard encounters. To put it simply and less flamey, Bioware should strongly consider releasing an epilogue or doing anything to clarify what happened to the characters we all know and love.

 

[kyuzo3567]

That, as nearly everyone else has said, is one of the main things that bugged the crap out of me. Yeah, the ending was full of hole and there are tons of things wrong with it, but this is one of my main complaints. Kelly was still on the Citadel last time I checked. I went through a HELL of a lot of work to make sure that she survived (still annoyed with them turning her into a barely-there side character in 3) and then...what happened to her?!

For that matter, what about Conrad, who finally seems to be getting a stroke of luck with his life when Jenna shows up? Finally, someone willing and excited to listen to him. Or Liara's 'father.' "Great, we finally get to bond, but I have to go die now." Or Commander Bailey? They take all this time to build all these characters, and then they just forget about them. Gr...

When do you meet Liara's father? I don't remember that part at all

 

[Austin Manning]

When do you meet Liara's father? I don't remember that part at all

She's an Asari matriarch that works as a bartender on Illium in 2 and a bartender in the Citadel's Presidium Commons in 3.

 

[viranimus]

Please understand, I come off like that in part because this isnt the first time ive stuck a toe in the water to try to give the answer a gentle nudge only to be met with sticks and stones. So I expect the response. But I have also seen entirely too narrow of a view taken, just like the idea that all the possible ideas have been considered. And I know that is not true. In fact I think some people HAVE in fact considered it for a moment, but they do not want it to be true so they ignore it, shun it and forget that the thought ever crossed their mind because it is not what they would want and the concept of a flawed and broken ending as infuriating as it might be would be preferable.

fair enough, i should have used better word choice, as not EVERY interpretation has been come across, but in video game history i don't think endings/narrative has been this examined/discussed before, so I was merely trying to state that the view you might think/believe has in fact been thought up or discussed before, probably in a video that has also been broken down and discussed boggling amounts of times. and yes, you're probably right in that most people don't want it to be true, which with how much backlash there is all things considered, I think it's okay that people happily make up their own endings/interpretations to the plot/narrative.

/nod. Do see what you are getting at, but I have been very proactive in seeking out trying to find others expressing the idea. In all the scouring ive yet to see anyone hit it on the head, though I recall one reference where someone inquired about it almost hitting it but deflected and veered way off course, and it was consequently devoured by other posters in fury that it could not possibly be what was intended. Technically they were right because the kid didnt manage to bring it all together. The ridicule was astounding. One of the most sadistic textual lynchings ive ever seen. (no not on escapist as it would have been banhammered 6 ways from sunday for how aggressive of a personal attack it became)

 

[Eddie the head]

Did anyone noticed that the shoots of the fleet in that battle missed the Reapers, and are now heading towards Earth?? meaning that those proyectiles that each Dreadnoughts missed, and that have the more destructive power than an atomic bomb (acording to the Codex), will destroy Earth or at least initiate a nuclear winter.

Opss.

They also said a single atmosphere reduces the impact by a lot. It would hardly cause a nuclear winter.

 

[The Ubermensch]

Black, but I don't think you're right about synthesis.

We can talk about what they said and what happened for eons, but you have to look at the ending as a separate beast. Besides which, star child said "We've tried synthesis but it always failed". Take it at face value, what is he asking?

I think he's asking for the singularity; not just the technological singularity but the Omega Point. "To remove the barriers to understanding so that peace and reign eternal". But the instant you completely understand someone else, I'm not going to say that individuality is gone; but questions are answered. A lot of questions... Picard, help us out here

http://youtu.be/Xh_t2fFF3B0?t=7m8s

Also, I stand by my Light Yagami comparision, reason being in both Death Note and the Control ending the protagonists are the sole authority. Shepard now has direct command over the most powerful death fleet in the universe and answers to no one, Light can determine the fate of everyone on the planet and answers to no one. The UN is a council in theory and everyone on that council is supposed to hold everyone else accountable.

The only difference between Shepard and Light is behaviour, but they are basically in the same position.

Except the catalyst isn't Shepard. As far as we can tell, one of two outcomes are likely:

-Shepard killed himself to imprint his personality and physical look onto the catalyst

or

-Shepard "became" the catalyst, but in doing so destroyed his own humanity in which case he is no longer Shepard, and is simply the catalyst with a new mission statement.

No matter how you slice it, Shepard dies in the control ending, what remains is something else.
This might be a matter of semantics, but the real comparison should be between Light and The Catalyst.

EDIT:Also let's not forget that (for what it's worth) The catalyst in the control ending during the extended cut, clearly differentiates between Shepard and itself.

Ladies and gentlemen; you can debate what your head canon is until the big rip. I would prefer to look at the writers intent and analyse their reality because we'll actually get some where.

I'm putting these up as they are similar situations that have thematic differences.

But, >No matter how you slice it, Shepard dies in the control ending, what remains is something else.

He was going to die anyway; we're human, we die. But in his death he gave genesis to a new supreme life form. The catalyst is now Shepard's Ubermensch; there is no higher goal for humanity.

 

[AD-Stu]

As for elaboration, No. I would not. Part of the joy of the ME3 ending is being able to see clearly what sooooo many other people continue to be completely oblivious to despite it being repeatedly beaten into their heads over the course of three games. As for trolling, No. I might derive a bit of perverse satisfaction of being slightly ahead of the curve on this. However Me stating there is something everyone is missing isnt some incendiary statement meant to provoke response. If anything It is intended to provoke thought. To get the players thinking "What could I have possibly missed" It would be wrong of my to just blurt it out at this point given how many have yet to grasp it. Its a matter of finding ones personal truth in it and to tell you would deprive you of it. If you want to see it, you must first abandon your personal biases of the story. Try to figure out the story THEY are trying to tell you. Accept they are telling you something you do not want to consider. Stop trying to rationalize it in a literal sense and see it in a figurative and metaphorical sense. The answer is there and the joy of it is discovering it.

While I certainly don't claim to know everything about the series, I am the kind of nerd that's done half a dozen playthroughs of the first two games, I'm on my fourth playthrough of ME3 and I've read all the comics and novels too. And I have no idea what you're talking about.

I admit, it's very possible that I've missed stuff. But if someone who's spent as much time immersed in this game's universe as me has missed these cues, and they were indeed deliberately put there by the writers, then wouldn't you have to admit that's something of a failing on the storyteller's part? Making the content so obscure that only one in a thousand people actually get it? That's not clever.

The alternative is that it's just a personal interpretation or rationalisation that you've come up with, not something that the writers intended. Which is great - if this is indeed art then it's normal for people to take away different interpretations of its meaning. But it's just that, a personal interpretation.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

Please understand, I come off like that in part because this isnt the first time ive stuck a toe in the water to try to give the answer a gentle nudge only to be met with sticks and stones. So I expect the response. But I have also seen entirely too narrow of a view taken, just like the idea that all the possible ideas have been considered. And I know that is not true. In fact I think some people HAVE in fact considered it for a moment, but they do not want it to be true so they ignore it, shun it and forget that the thought ever crossed their mind because it is not what they would want and the concept of a flawed and broken ending as infuriating as it might be would be preferable.

fair enough, i should have used better word choice, as not EVERY interpretation has been come across, but in video game history i don't think endings/narrative has been this examined/discussed before, so I was merely trying to state that the view you might think/believe has in fact been thought up or discussed before, probably in a video that has also been broken down and discussed boggling amounts of times. and yes, you're probably right in that most people don't want it to be true, which with how much backlash there is all things considered, I think it's okay that people happily make up their own endings/interpretations to the plot/narrative.

/nod. Do see what you are getting at, but I have been very proactive in seeking out trying to find others expressing the idea. In all the scouring ive yet to see anyone hit it on the head, though I recall one reference where someone inquired about it almost hitting it but deflected and veered way off course, and it was consequently devoured by other posters in fury that it could not possibly be what was intended. Technically they were right because the kid didnt manage to bring it all together. The ridicule was astounding. One of the most sadistic textual lynchings ive ever seen. (no not on escapist as it would have been banhammered 6 ways from sunday for how aggressive of a personal attack it became)

curious, was that on BSN or what website did that discussion/lynching happen? I remember reading a few threads myself over at the BSN but it devolved into nonstop trolls and extremist explosions, so I stopped reading it.

I actually have an ending mod I just put on for my newest playthrough, I'm interested to see what it changes/how it changes it up (i'm doing the geth vs quarians part right now)

 

[viranimus]

Good points

You bring up some good points and in an ideal world you would be dead on right. However I feel pretty confident with the way we live in a virtually illiterate society now unable to grasp things like context and subtlety I really cant get behind that even though I REALLY wish it were.

Remember, this is a society that thought inception was clever and/or complex and hard to follow. Where only the most formulaic and repetitive ideas are met with praise. Where all three Transformers films were profitable. So can you really say with that much confidence that if something was even remotely subtle and nuanced that people would catch it?

 

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

Im sure you will continue to see this as a trollish answer, but that is the furthest thing from the truth.

That's because it is a trollish answer. A lot of people analyzed Mass Effect ending through and through. They brainstormed ideas, made documentaries about it, talked for months about every possibility. Not only that, they analyzed all of Bioware's statements about Mass Effect universe and compared them to the ending. They analyzed other sci-fi universes and ideas that influenced Mass Effect. As it turns out, a lot of sci-fi fans are science students, and some Mass Effect fans are writers and literature buffs. And they know a few things about logic and writing. So grasping logical inconsistencies and bad writing wasn't that hard for them. And now you come in here claiming that you know the ultimate truth that everyone else is unable to grasp? Cut the crap. If you knew anything you'd spill your guts a long time ago.

 

[Sniper Team 4]

That, as nearly everyone else has said, is one of the main things that bugged the crap out of me. Yeah, the ending was full of hole and there are tons of things wrong with it, but this is one of my main complaints. Kelly was still on the Citadel last time I checked. I went through a HELL of a lot of work to make sure that she survived (still annoyed with them turning her into a barely-there side character in 3) and then...what happened to her?!

For that matter, what about Conrad, who finally seems to be getting a stroke of luck with his life when Jenna shows up? Finally, someone willing and excited to listen to him. Or Liara's 'father.' "Great, we finally get to bond, but I have to go die now." Or Commander Bailey? They take all this time to build all these characters, and then they just forget about them. Gr...

When do you meet Liara's father? I don't remember that part at all

I see that someone else already answered this for you, but I shall give you detail. Because what is an answer without details (a short answer, obviously)?

In Mass Effect 2, assuming you have a save import from Mass Effect and you talked to Conrad and he didn't die, Conrad shows up on Illium 'threatening' the bartender. After solving this problem, you can talk to the bartender who drops some hints about the fact that she's Liara's daughter. If you played Lair of the Shadow Broker DLC, you can flip through video footage and one of them shows Matriarch Aethyta looking at a picture of Liara. In Mass Effect 3 (I believe it is after the Cerberus attack on the station, though it may be before), you find Aethyta tending the bar in the Presidium. Go talk to her and Shepard will call her out on being Liara's father. Funny dialogue if you're in a romantic relationship with Liara. After that, Liara is sitting at a nearby table. Go tell her to talk to Aethyta for some of the most touching, funny, and revealing dialogue in the entire game. Just walk up, hear a few lines, then walk away and come back to hear the rest. Totally worth it.