A question about the Avengers

[Odinsson]

Thor > Hulk > Iron Man > Cap > Hawkeye/Black Widow

Thor's more versatile... he's not more powerful.

In a straight up fight, Hulk would take it every time.

I dunno, Thor was doing quite well in the hangar against the Hulk, it was only when he got into the labs and for some reason wasn't using the hammer that he seemed to be the most in trouble.

Honestly, that'd be the tighest fight out of all of them I think. While Hulk has the power no question, I figure that extra room Thor has is enough to tip the scales.

Then again, I will admit, all I really have to go on is the Avengers, as I haven't yet seen Thor, Hulk, or Iron Man 2 yet still...

It's just not really possible to win in fisty cuffs with the hulk. (unless for plot convenience) His strength is infinite, as is his regeneration.

It takes cosmic level beings to win convincingly really.

Umm Thor is classed as Cosmic level. He routinely goes toe to toe and wins against Galactus's Heralds. He's beaten the Surfer. Thor has two advantages against Hulk. Speed ((Thor is one of the fastest people in the Marvel U He is quite litteraly faster than the god Hermes in pure speed. and that doesn't even count his teleport powers, only his raw speed. )) And Magic

Last I checked Thor wasn't classed as a cosmic level being.

I'm talking about things like Galactus and Thanos. Beings that use the power Cosmic or Cosmic radiation.

Asgardian magic is cool and all, but not really what I'm talking about.

And to put it simply, when Hulk and Thor tangle in comics. 90% of the time Hulk comes off the victor.

See, this is why I don't like the Hulk. There's so much writer bullshit associated with him that he's basically invincible.

 

[Winnosh]

Thor > Hulk > Iron Man > Cap > Hawkeye/Black Widow

Thor's more versatile... he's not more powerful.

In a straight up fight, Hulk would take it every time.

I dunno, Thor was doing quite well in the hangar against the Hulk, it was only when he got into the labs and for some reason wasn't using the hammer that he seemed to be the most in trouble.

Honestly, that'd be the tighest fight out of all of them I think. While Hulk has the power no question, I figure that extra room Thor has is enough to tip the scales.

Then again, I will admit, all I really have to go on is the Avengers, as I haven't yet seen Thor, Hulk, or Iron Man 2 yet still...

It's just not really possible to win in fisty cuffs with the hulk. (unless for plot convenience) His strength is infinite, as is his regeneration.

It takes cosmic level beings to win convincingly really.

Umm Thor is classed as Cosmic level. He routinely goes toe to toe and wins against Galactus's Heralds. He's beaten the Surfer. Thor has two advantages against Hulk. Speed ((Thor is one of the fastest people in the Marvel U He is quite litteraly faster than the god Hermes in pure speed. and that doesn't even count his teleport powers, only his raw speed. )) And Magic

Last I checked Thor wasn't classed as a cosmic level being.

I'm talking about things like Galactus and Thanos. Beings that use the power Cosmic or Cosmic radiation.

Asgardian magic is cool and all, but not really what I'm talking about.

And to put it simply, when Hulk and Thor tangle in comics. 90% of the time Hulk comes off the victor.

You're mistaken Thor is classed as Cosmic level. Strength Speed Energy Output, versitility of powers are all on the cosmic level. Thor's fought Galactus Solo and won on some occasions.

As for Hulk vs Thor. in the actual issues their record is more Thor 55% Hulk45%

 

[VoidWanderer]

ALso would you rather the guy that's has months and months of experience, or the dude with a few weeks experience?

Besides since War Machine has so many conventional weapons, he is just a walking army unit in steel. Tony has the experience which takes priority over the guy with medals.

 

[Shoggoth2588]

I think it's because S.H.I.E.L.D. operates outside of the U.S. Military and for Rhodes to be a part of it, he would have had to get signed on by a superior officer. I don't know why a Superior Officer in the U.S. Air Force (I think) would say no to that but maybe S.H.I.E.L.D. doesn't want any potential spy/security risks within their ranks...well you know, unless they have rockin' tits.

...

Black Widow is a double-agent, isn't she?

 

[BabySinclair]

Also I have a question... How come when Banner went Hulk the first time in the movie he was a wild animal but conveniently he was able to control himself for the battle in NY. Only nitpick I have with the movie, I still enjoyed this new Hulk though. I really like the new guy playing him

When he changed on the Helicarrier, it was involuntary and a result of being injured. At the end of The Hulk, Banner stated that he doubted he could control the Hulk, just try to direct him at Abomination. When injured on the Helicarrier, the Hulk didn't have a clear danger, lashing out at the perceived threat of those on the ship (and he knew they viewed him as a potential threat) and eventually Thor when they started fighting. In New York however, he controlled the change and had a clear objective going into it. That punch to Thor during the fight was indicative that Banner didn't have control over the Hulk; he could point the Hulk to the Chitari but that's about it.

 

[DugMachine]

Also I have a question... How come when Banner went Hulk the first time in the movie he was a wild animal but conveniently he was able to control himself for the battle in NY. Only nitpick I have with the movie, I still enjoyed this new Hulk though. I really like the new guy playing him

When he changed on the Helicarrier, it was involuntary and a result of being injured. At the end of The Hulk, Banner stated that he doubted he could control the Hulk, just try to direct him at Abomination. When injured on the Helicarrier, the Hulk didn't have a clear danger, lashing out at the perceived threat of those on the ship (and he knew they viewed him as a potential threat) and eventually Thor when they started fighting. In New York however, he controlled the change and had a clear objective going into it. That punch to Thor during the fight was indicative that Banner didn't have control over the Hulk; he could point the Hulk to the Chitari but that's about it.

Hmm I thought that punch to Thor was just because they fought on the ship. Kind of like "We're even now" and it was pretty dang funny.

Spoiler

Cause I mean at the end of the battle when the Chitari are all gone the hulk is just standing there not beating on the rest of the Avengers.

 

[joshuaayt]

Because it'd be totally awkward to have to keep going back to the guy they turned down for upgrades and repairs- and with the man himself onboard, you have one member who will constantly be improving his offensive power.

Plus he's kinda hot. At least a 9, and Rhodey is, what. A 7? At best? Probably the deciding factor, really.

 

[Orks da best]

What I found very odd about the finally battle was that there was no Fantastic Four, the final battle happened in Manhattan which the Fantastic Four should have been close by so they almost should have showed up to help, this is also easily fixed by just saying they have no been created or in space atm but still something to ponder with them crossing through movies now and plan on doing it more.

one reason: Copyrights for movies. I do not think marvel holds the copyrights to the FF currently, If i remeber corretly. That the only reason outside of either lazyness, or the FF were doing somethign else or had yet to been formed, likely the latter.

 

[Slycne]

What I found very odd about the finally battle was that there was no Fantastic Four, the final battle happened in Manhattan which the Fantastic Four should have been close by so they almost should have showed up to help, this is also easily fixed by just saying they have no been created or in space atm but still something to ponder with them crossing through movies now and plan on doing it more.

This has to do with how movie rights are sold and contracted out. Currently Marvel doesn't have the rights to produce films with the Fantastic Four in them. Right now Fox stands to loose the rights in 2015 if they don't make another Fantastic Four film by then, but the talks are they want to reboot it after the success of X-Men: First Class. Apparently Marvel is also trying to work a deal out where they get Fantastic Four back for extending rights to Daredevil, which Fox stands to loose.

 

[BabySinclair]

Also I have a question... How come when Banner went Hulk the first time in the movie he was a wild animal but conveniently he was able to control himself for the battle in NY. Only nitpick I have with the movie, I still enjoyed this new Hulk though. I really like the new guy playing him

When he changed on the Helicarrier, it was involuntary and a result of being injured. At the end of The Hulk, Banner stated that he doubted he could control the Hulk, just try to direct him at Abomination. When injured on the Helicarrier, the Hulk didn't have a clear danger, lashing out at the perceived threat of those on the ship (and he knew they viewed him as a potential threat) and eventually Thor when they started fighting. In New York however, he controlled the change and had a clear objective going into it. That punch to Thor during the fight was indicative that Banner didn't have control over the Hulk; he could point the Hulk to the Chitari but that's about it.

Hmm I thought that punch to Thor was just because they fought on the ship. Kind of like "We're even now" and it was pretty dang funny.

Spoiler

Cause I mean at the end of the battle when the Chitari are all gone the hulk is just standing there not beating on the rest of the Avengers.

It could have been a "We're even now" but it was still from the Hulk and not Banner, Banner would have agreed with Thor that he needed to be contained and forced off the ship. The Hulk would be the one more likely to slug Thor for the previous fight because he could. Banner simply aimed the Hulk at the Chitari and once gone had no reason to attack those that fought with him. Not above smacking Thor back for the thrashing but they weren't posing a threat (same reason the Hulk never attacks civilians, no need.) While highly instinctual, he's not entirely without thought.

 

[Hazy992]

What I found very odd about the finally battle was that there was no Fantastic Four, the final battle happened in Manhattan which the Fantastic Four should have been close by so they almost should have showed up to help, this is also easily fixed by just saying they have no been created or in space atm but still something to ponder with them crossing through movies now and plan on doing it more.

Thats because the Fantastic Four don't exist in that universe. Spider-Man and the X-Men are in New York too but they don't show up either cause they don't exist in the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

Or in other words Marvel Studios don't have the license to use those IPs

OT: as has been pointed out already they wanted Stark more for his intellect than his suit. Even if you ignore that the Iron Man suit will be more advanced than War Machine anyway because Stark can improve it. Rhodie can't as he doesn't have the know how.

 

[Basement Cat]

snip

Ya... I think you're not at all remembering that scene.

Tony went face to face with Thor, God of Thunder, and was going pretty much blow for blow with him. Would he have won it? No, I doubt it, again, God of Thunder here, Thor's probably the most powerful member on the team, only Hulk can really challenge him when it comes to raw strength. What did the Cap do? He threw his shield at both of them, had Thor's attention for ten seconds, and took one blow that he just used his shield to cover himself with. Then it pretty much just stopped.

The Captain really wasn't involved in that fight, that was a battle really only between Iron Man and Thor. Sure the Captain was able to deflect the blow, and kinda of bring them to pause for a moment and then stop, but if that kept going the Cap would have been screwed.

If we restricted it to just Iron Man and the Captain, Iron Man will win. Every time. All that Iron Man has to do is just fire a couple rockets at him, then finish him off. Or be able to get one shot that gets by the Cap's shield and he's toast. Hell, Tony could even just grab the Cap, fly straight up, and drop him from a mile.

And for the record, the Cap is probably my second favourite one on the team. Sure Tony is the best in my mind, but I'll admit that neither are the strongest on the team. Pretty much the order of power:

Thor > Hulk > Iron Man > Cap > Hawkeye/Black Widow

I remember that scene. I figure they stopped it where they did because Thor, if they played him straight, could stomp Cap with little effort.

You're probably right about Iron Man being able to beat Captain America. I remember too many fanboys harping that Cap's overly-advertised: "He always has at least 3 tactical plans for any situation" character trait effectively makes him invincible.

I remember reading an old (early 90's) comic where a fan letter genuinely and seriously claimed that Cap could beat Galactus because of this.

Uh-huh...riiiight.


My focus was more on Cap's grit. Steve isn't just a soldier (or just a super soldier) he's a veteran with years of combat experience. To him WW II, where it was kill or be killed, was practically yesterday. That makes him dangerous in a fight.

Tony's many things but he isn't stupid.

while i don't think cap is necessarily that smart, (and correct me if i'm wrong here, i've only read up on it, not sure if it's all facts/whatnot) but cap's shield is like the ultimate cosmic defense, the bonds in the shield itself are able to absorb the blows it takes and make the shield even stronger, or make it cause an emp type energy blast (like in the movie, thor's hammer is also a cosmic weapon so when the ole "unstoppable force meets an immovable object" thing happened it was an even explosion of energy)

so yeah, i think you MAYBE are severely underestimating that damn shield, they underplay it at times, but that thing could stop a freaking sun if it was soaked into the shield the right way as a blow. but obviously, he's one man and he can't block everything, so i think ironman would outdo captain with shear power without having to use his energy blasts. (same goes for thor obviously)

The Avengers is the only one of the movies I've seen, so I don't know what the 'Hollywood' version of Cap's legendary shield is capable of. In the comics (which I know very well) it was a unique alloy that was capable of stopping direct blows from the likes of Thor's hammer (etc) readily--though for drama's sake they typically had Cap grunting to show how much effort it took him to couch the shield.

Having seen how Thor's hammer connecting with Cap's shield resulted in a sonic boom (if that's what you want to call it) I know better than to underestimate his shield's resilience.

But what Chicago Ted said about Iron Man's capabilities does carry a lot of weight. As he said, if nothing else Iron Man could literally just fly Cap up high and simply drop him. Not very dramatic, perhaps, but effective.

And unless his 'Hollywood' shield's is capable of totally negating the momentum Cap would acquire from a high fall without turning him into goo on the inside of his shield just dropping him from a mile in the air would be an effective tactic.

It wouldn't be pretty.​

 

[Winnosh]

Thor > Hulk > Iron Man > Cap > Hawkeye/Black Widow

Thor's more versatile... he's not more powerful.

In a straight up fight, Hulk would take it every time.

I dunno, Thor was doing quite well in the hangar against the Hulk, it was only when he got into the labs and for some reason wasn't using the hammer that he seemed to be the most in trouble.

Honestly, that'd be the tighest fight out of all of them I think. While Hulk has the power no question, I figure that extra room Thor has is enough to tip the scales.

Then again, I will admit, all I really have to go on is the Avengers, as I haven't yet seen Thor, Hulk, or Iron Man 2 yet still...

It's just not really possible to win in fisty cuffs with the hulk. (unless for plot convenience) His strength is infinite, as is his regeneration.

It takes cosmic level beings to win convincingly really.

Umm Thor is classed as Cosmic level. He routinely goes toe to toe and wins against Galactus's Heralds. He's beaten the Surfer. Thor has two advantages against Hulk. Speed ((Thor is one of the fastest people in the Marvel U He is quite litteraly faster than the god Hermes in pure speed. and that doesn't even count his teleport powers, only his raw speed. )) And Magic

Last I checked Thor wasn't classed as a cosmic level being.

I'm talking about things like Galactus and Thanos. Beings that use the power Cosmic or Cosmic radiation.

Asgardian magic is cool and all, but not really what I'm talking about.

And to put it simply, when Hulk and Thor tangle in comics. 90% of the time Hulk comes off the victor.

You're mistaken Thor is classed as Cosmic level. Strength Speed Energy Output, versitility of powers are all on the cosmic level. Thor's fought Galactus Solo and won on some occasions.

Pure PIS.

Odin isn't even a match for Galactus Solo. Neither is Thanos or the Surfer who by rights should walk over Thor.

As for Hulk vs Thor. in the actual issues their record is more Thor 55% Hulk45%

Source?

Last I checked it was drastically different.

Sorry but Thor and Surfer have fought many times. Surfer's never been able to beat him. It's either a Draw, something stops the fight, or Thor wins hands down.

And yes Odin is a match for Galactus. Anyone wielding the Odin Force is on Skyfather level. Hell Thor's fought and injured Celestials. I don't know where you're getting your facts from but Thor has always been Cosmic level. Asgardians are Cosmic beings.

 

[sinsfire]

I think its sort of been said, but to simplify you can just look at the suits as they reflect the people within them.

War Machine is just that, heavy weapons and not much else. All braun no brains. big heavy and well armed.

Iron Man is more of a journey man. Agile, strong, weapons but more the rouge then the tank. Add to that the intellect of Tony Stark and that is why he is in the group for this first encounter.

Look for War Machine in the sequal

 

[Winnosh]

Thor has beaten The Phoenix solo. once again if that isn't cosmic I don't know what is.

 

[Karfroogle]

I'm fairly sure that they only teased Rhodes at the end of Iron Man 2 because they weren't sure if they could get Robert Downey, Jr. again.

 

[Karfroogle]

What I found very odd about the finally battle was that there was no Fantastic Four, the final battle happened in Manhattan which the Fantastic Four should have been close by so they almost should have showed up to help, this is also easily fixed by just saying they have no been created or in space atm but still something to ponder with them crossing through movies now and plan on doing it more.

Well, I'm sure part of it was that Captain America and the Human Torch were both played by Chris Evans.