A question for metal fans.
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I think that harsh vocals can be superb in the right context. There are bands that i would never listen to, if they had clear vocal.
@direkiller: Cradle of filth is not death metal though, just to nitpick. And it just so happens that this is one of the bands i was talking about. I wouldn't listen to Cradle if they used clean vocal for all of their songs. But yes, i do like the original played by Iron Maiden more.
@direkiller: Cradle of filth is not death metal though, just to nitpick. And it just so happens that this is one of the bands i was talking about. I wouldn't listen to Cradle if they used clean vocal for all of their songs. But yes, i do like the original played by Iron Maiden more.
Robot unicorns!!!ArcWelder92 said:
Anyway, I'm probably on the same boat as the OP... That's the reason why my favorite band is Kamelot. The vocalist was an Opera singer (studying to be one, at least) before he decided to go that route. Seriously, look up "Karma" (the album). It only gets better from there.
Metal grunts (often humorously called cookie monster vocals) are good in small doses, or when utilized well in a band like Amon Amarth or Atheist. My personal favorite application of grunts is in this particular song: (starts at 3:26)
What I can't stand, however, are these lame, uninspired deathmetal/grindcore/goregrind/porngrind bands that do nothing but play as loud and atonally as possible while making the most indecipherable grunts, growls, and gurgles they can. Oftentimes, the lyrics are entirely pointless, as it's obvious the 'singer' isn't even bothering to try and vocalize any of them. That, and their subject matter gets old quick. Ok, I get it, you like to pretend to sing about blood and gore. It's not shocking anymore, it's BORING. Unless you're trying to be funny or legitimately scary, like a good horror or exploitation flick, you're not impressing anyone except your 13-year old, pimply-faced fans. This below is a prime example of the bland, monotonous shit I speak of. Don't listen to it unless you want to be bored to death by a wall of sound.
And yes, I know many of them are joke bands, like Anal ****. They may be a joke, but their joke's not funny.
What I can't stand, however, are these lame, uninspired deathmetal/grindcore/goregrind/porngrind bands that do nothing but play as loud and atonally as possible while making the most indecipherable grunts, growls, and gurgles they can. Oftentimes, the lyrics are entirely pointless, as it's obvious the 'singer' isn't even bothering to try and vocalize any of them. That, and their subject matter gets old quick. Ok, I get it, you like to pretend to sing about blood and gore. It's not shocking anymore, it's BORING. Unless you're trying to be funny or legitimately scary, like a good horror or exploitation flick, you're not impressing anyone except your 13-year old, pimply-faced fans. This below is a prime example of the bland, monotonous shit I speak of. Don't listen to it unless you want to be bored to death by a wall of sound.
And yes, I know many of them are joke bands, like Anal ****. They may be a joke, but their joke's not funny.
Back when I first started taking an interest in Metal, any sort of "harsh" vocals at all would instantly turn me off of a song/band/what have you. Then as I was exposed to more of the medium, I came to view that style of vocal delivery less as an instant "kiss of death (of my interest)" and more of an annoyance I suffered through to listen to all the parts of the song that I actually liked - this would be when my regular exposure to harsh vocals was via "beauty and the beast" performances by various female-fronted symphonic metal outfits, where for whatever reason someone decided that the perfect accompaniment to sublime soprano vocals was croaking.similar.squirrel said:
But these days I can honestly say that I genuinely appreciate growling in certain contexts. Stuff like Meshuggah, well there we're in complete agreement, because there's no contrast - it's all growling, all the time, and non-stop growling is just a draining thing to listen to. Growling as a form of vocal punctuation, as a means of adding emphasis, those are the reasons I might actually enjoy growling in a song, but that requires your vocalist to, at some point, actually sing; you can't just growl your way through an entire song and get a favorable verdict from me.
So in summation of this point, I stick mainly to the varieties of Metal that involve nothing but clean vocal delivery, but I'm not adverse to growling if it's used judiciously (I will even tolerate screaming if it's the guy behind Alcest or Falkenbach doing it).
Sort of surprised to see you complain about Mikael Åkerfeldt's singing though, considering the man absolutely can sing, quite well in fact. Does he really growl so much during a typical Opeth song that it overshadows the clean vocal segments? I ask because I'm mostly familiar with him through his guest work and Opeth's Damnation album, and that's not a Melodic Death Metal album.
Communic
Ostensibly a Norwegian Progressive/Power Metal band, but from what I've heard from them, that Power Metal descriptor isn't very accurate - about the only thing they have in common with your average Power Metal band is their tempo and the double-kick drumming. They play eccentric and fairly heavy Prog-Metal songs that tend to run for about 9 minutes on average, only you won't notice because they never seem to outstay their welcome.
Scar Symmetry
A Swedish Melodic Death Metal band, playing very technical and heavy music that is simultaneously approachable, which is a rare feat. The fairly balanced mixture of harsh and clean vocals certainly helps hold my interest. Here's a couple of tracks from their last two albums (their original vocalist Christian Älvestam left after the 3rd album, and they ended up getting two guys to replace him).
[small]The original vocalist.[/small]
[small]The new guys.[/small]
Fair enough. I get that that kind of vocals isn't everyone's cup 'o tea. But two things to keep in mind:TestECull said:
1) Don't assume that just cuz it has screaming it's screamo, that's just one sub-genre and a really annoying misconception.
2) People who actually like this kind of music would definitely be able to tell the difference. For instance, to me, all pop-punk bands sound the same, but to a friend of mine who's in a pop-punk band, all metal sounds the same.
Iv'e never actually said this here before, but I don't even listen to music at all.
I certainly don't mind music, but if an entertainment form isn't VISUAL then I... well... don't get entertained.
:/
I certainly don't mind music, but if an entertainment form isn't VISUAL then I... well... don't get entertained.
:/
Screaming has uses which make it ideal for metal, a genre where singers aren't all that important and certainly aren't the focus like in so many other forms of modern music. Firstly, it's atonal, meaning that there's no melody from the vocals and the instrumental complexity can be heard at all times. Have a listen to DragonForce. They strip out their technical skill during the verses, and desperately fit in little trills during the parts where the singer is breathing in, simply because under clean vocals, instrumentals don't come through. A lack of a need for vocal melody also means that the instruments can create melodies that wouldn't be suited to the melodic aspect of vocals, but benefit from the rhythmic aspect, or the easy interface with the music it creates. In genres like technical death metal, it's vital that they do so, so screaming makes sense.
To see what I mean, have a listen to "The Ancient Covenant" by The Faceless.
It also have a lot of force behind it from a sonic standpoint. Genres in the extreme metal category, which are all about the force, find this very useful rhythmically.
Off the top of my head, Johnny Truant's "The Bloodening" will fit this point.
Then there's maybe the most important reason - certainly, the reason they were adopted in the first place; the simple fact that the anger, frustration or sadness present in a lot of these songs would feel contrived and insincere were it not growled, screamed or shouted. There are times when shouting is appropriate, or where a more "extreme" vocal style fits the sound overall of the song, and brings out the point, and the atmosphere, of the song much more sincerely. Remember that most metal musicians care much more about their own artistic fulfillment than they do about whether it fits public sensibilities, so this is much more important to them than whether their music sounds "nice".
To see what I mean, have a listen to "The Ancient Covenant" by The Faceless.
It also have a lot of force behind it from a sonic standpoint. Genres in the extreme metal category, which are all about the force, find this very useful rhythmically.
Off the top of my head, Johnny Truant's "The Bloodening" will fit this point.
Then there's maybe the most important reason - certainly, the reason they were adopted in the first place; the simple fact that the anger, frustration or sadness present in a lot of these songs would feel contrived and insincere were it not growled, screamed or shouted. There are times when shouting is appropriate, or where a more "extreme" vocal style fits the sound overall of the song, and brings out the point, and the atmosphere, of the song much more sincerely. Remember that most metal musicians care much more about their own artistic fulfillment than they do about whether it fits public sensibilities, so this is much more important to them than whether their music sounds "nice".
I'd have to disagree with you regarding "Bleed", the vocals suit it a lot.
Taking out the screaming would kind of be like only using clean guitars. It's doable in the context of metal but it does change the overall tone of the song, making it less heavy and more melodic.
It's no better or worse than singing, it just depends on whether it complements the music or not. Usually, it does. If it's done well.
Taking out the screaming would kind of be like only using clean guitars. It's doable in the context of metal but it does change the overall tone of the song, making it less heavy and more melodic.
It's no better or worse than singing, it just depends on whether it complements the music or not. Usually, it does. If it's done well.
Not all songs have to have intelligible lyrics or even good lyrics to be a good song. I much prefer when the horrid, unintelligible lyrics at least sound good. Some bands can do that (like Nirvana) and some really can not (like most screamo and death metal). My favourite music is the metal which is either not quite metal or just as violent but not really metal, like Motorhead and Rage Against The Machine respectively.
I agree mostly. Heavy Metal like Slipknot is great, but most Death Metal isn't due to them just kinda grunting.