Try it. Actually try a death metal growl. It's really hard. Anyone can roughly approximate the noise, but notice how your throat starts hurting and you have to stop after bare seconds? Yeah.TestECull said:
A question for metal fans.
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I don't listen to metal that has nothing but grunts and screams in it... But here's my two cents:
I've also had the feeling that some songs would sound better without the vocals. However, when I go on the Tubes to check the instrumental version, I often notice that something is... 'missing'. Naturally, the vocals. So while you might think that a song would sound better without the vocals, the end result can often be disappointing. Mostly because songs with vocals were MADE to have vocals in them.
Maybe the vocals shouldn't be thrown away, merely replaced by something better?
The instrumental version of a song with vocals can, however, become very good material to just play in the background. You know, bring some atmosphere, but not really focussing on the music.
I've also had the feeling that some songs would sound better without the vocals. However, when I go on the Tubes to check the instrumental version, I often notice that something is... 'missing'. Naturally, the vocals. So while you might think that a song would sound better without the vocals, the end result can often be disappointing. Mostly because songs with vocals were MADE to have vocals in them.
Maybe the vocals shouldn't be thrown away, merely replaced by something better?
The instrumental version of a song with vocals can, however, become very good material to just play in the background. You know, bring some atmosphere, but not really focussing on the music.
since this thread has kinda become a "what's your fav metal song/band" thread... HERE'S MINE!
well, I tell a lie, it's a tie. between that one^ and this one\/ *Hint* it's the same band ;D
their lead guitarist (Chris Storey) is absolutely insanely crazy-mad with skill. The drummer is as well (supremely skilled) but i don't know his name.
well, I tell a lie, it's a tie. between that one^ and this one\/ *Hint* it's the same band ;D
their lead guitarist (Chris Storey) is absolutely insanely crazy-mad with skill. The drummer is as well (supremely skilled) but i don't know his name.
I usually like the vocals. I listen to the Heavier spectrum of Metal while gaming or at the Gym, or even at school/work because it gets me in a good, hard working mood. Fast, heavy and angry. Which is the way I like it when I have to get through a tough task.
But some of the heavier "Grind" genres can get fucking stupid. Like pig squeals and shit like that.
But some of the heavier "Grind" genres can get fucking stupid. Like pig squeals and shit like that.
I don't like it myself, althought I understand why people do.
I do like the occasional energetic scream, or a screamed chorus.
I do like the occasional energetic scream, or a screamed chorus.
It all comes down to opinion. From the first time I heard "growling" (Dimmu Borgir) I fucking loved it. Hey, it's not for everyone, and not every band does it. Stick to Power Metal, NWOBHM, Thrash Metal (mostly) and stuff in that vein and you'll be fine. Me, I can't help but feel that the vast majority of heavy songs would be worsened by the removal of the guttural vocals.similar.squirrel said:
It actually really annoys me to hear people saying it takes no talent and all that crap. Having tried (and failed) to learn, and knowing plenty of people who can growl, I can say if you want to growl properly, it'll take a lot of work. Most people I've asked, from friends to vocal coaches, say the best way to learn is in fact learn how to sing first, which will really help with your growling technique.
That's just not true. Well, actually, you will hear people like that in some bands. Usually referred to as Screamo or Emo. Either way, they are talentless. You can hear it in a second. No authority, usually a single pitch the whole way through. When it comes to the good Death/Black Metal bands, and all those variations, you can rely on the vocalist having talent. Trust me, good songs aren't "just dragging words on and changing pitch randomly" either. It takes quite a bit of talent to scream/growl for an extended period of time.TestECull said:
All this is especially true when you factor in doing it properly to avoid tearing up your vocal chords.
I get that it isn't everyone's thing, and I see why. But saying any "extreme" vocalist is talentless is a gross over-generalisation, and basically just wrong.
As for the comments on screaming. That's not even exclusive to "extreme" Metal. But besides that...
Try holding that scream.
Yeah, any yahoo can scream in the sense that any yahoo can sing: not very fucking well.TestECull said:
As much as I hate it, screaming takes as much talent as singing.
I dont like growling in songs. It really ruins the song for me, and when I hear songs that have growling/grunting in it I usually play another song. My favourite band of all time is Metallica, and its mainly because they can keep it heavy (not death metal I know) and you can still hear what Hetfield sings, if he sings of course. Their best song has to be One. I love it.
it's not an opinion. it's ignorance. you just blatantly state that "any yahoo can scream" and then when someone points out metal that doesnt have screaming you just ignore it.TestECull said:
blatant and willful ignorance right there, just like most of the mainstream public (and hipsters) when it comes to metal. of course the screaming metal is at the forefront of the metal scene right now because of those damn emo kids buying all that Metalcore crap (which is going to end like Disco someday...) but if you look at metal at its roots with Deep Purple, Jimi Hendrix, Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, and Dio, you'll see it's not about screaming, it's about empowerment.
Besides, you said "screamo" which automatically makes your "opinion" become "bigoted ignorance" since screamo has absolutely nothing to do with Metal (unless its Metalcore, but like i said, it's not actually metal anyways... more akin to "Hardcore" and "Emo")
yes. screamo/metalcore/most deathcore sucks because its just whining and emo. but Death Metal? Black Metal? Speed Metal? Just plain Heavy Metal? that's a whole different ballpark. if you're basing your opinions off of stuff like Bullet for my Valentine, Shadows Fall, and Slipknot, then you're not stating an opinion, you're spreading ignorance
we don't like the screaming unless it's black metal, we mostly like the growling and guttaral vocals for their percussive and strong nature. it's part of aesthetics and mood, but if you want to compare something like Amon Amarth and Opeth to bullshit Metalcore then you're not stating an "opinion" when you tell me screamo vocals suck, you're trolling
That's how it is. It took me a few months to get used to it. Also, some bands work better with clean singing, and others work better with growling/screaming/etc.WrongSprite said:
So, you can listen to Bleed, and the screaming bothers you? That song would be absolutely terrible without screaming, and I'll tell you why this is.
There is no melody to be found in Bleed. There is only a rhythm. Singing would be pointless because it doesn't add anything to the song, there is nothing to give the singing vocals any harmonic context and it would just sound like it was there aimlessly for no reason. And if you sit down and tap out the rhythm of his vocals, you'll find out it actually makes a lot of sense. In a way, it's like rapping. Whether or not you like the way he screams or not is irrelevant to the point that the vocal style suits the song.
Anyway, on topic, screamed, shouted, rapped, or otherwise percussive vocals are really something to be evaluated on a case-by-case basis. Either you like the way someone uses their vocal talent, or you don't. Screamers can sound amazing, competent, or less than stellar, just like any other form of vocalist.
And for those of you who say that screaming takes no skill, it takes HEAPS of skill. It's not as exact a science as improving your singing voice, but getting the right tone and most importantly learning to be able to do it for more than 5 minutes without killing your voice is very hard.
EDIT: Also, since the term "screamo" comes up often in these threads, let me reiterate that it does not refer to metal and even though it's a meaningless term, it usually refers to post-hardcore bands that use screaming. Most people use the term to refer to anything with screaming, and it has such a wide usage of different meanings that it has become irrelevant.
There is no melody to be found in Bleed. There is only a rhythm. Singing would be pointless because it doesn't add anything to the song, there is nothing to give the singing vocals any harmonic context and it would just sound like it was there aimlessly for no reason. And if you sit down and tap out the rhythm of his vocals, you'll find out it actually makes a lot of sense. In a way, it's like rapping. Whether or not you like the way he screams or not is irrelevant to the point that the vocal style suits the song.
Anyway, on topic, screamed, shouted, rapped, or otherwise percussive vocals are really something to be evaluated on a case-by-case basis. Either you like the way someone uses their vocal talent, or you don't. Screamers can sound amazing, competent, or less than stellar, just like any other form of vocalist.
And for those of you who say that screaming takes no skill, it takes HEAPS of skill. It's not as exact a science as improving your singing voice, but getting the right tone and most importantly learning to be able to do it for more than 5 minutes without killing your voice is very hard.
EDIT: Also, since the term "screamo" comes up often in these threads, let me reiterate that it does not refer to metal and even though it's a meaningless term, it usually refers to post-hardcore bands that use screaming. Most people use the term to refer to anything with screaming, and it has such a wide usage of different meanings that it has become irrelevant.
I just think it's a waste of time to write lyrics for a song and that act like a dog trying to sing them, then again I have heard dogs sound alot better (not even joking). Nobody can understand them, you might know what lyrics there singing by the musical ques but there is no way you can listen to it and know what there singing growling.
It also makes the songs sound so amaturish. On the odd occasions I watched american wife swap, there have been the "family band" or something and you just know it's going to be this kind of music and the second the "singer" opens his gob with "WAAAAAAGH!, you know it's going to sound exactly like every other band out there with this style.
It also makes the songs sound so amaturish. On the odd occasions I watched american wife swap, there have been the "family band" or something and you just know it's going to be this kind of music and the second the "singer" opens his gob with "WAAAAAAGH!, you know it's going to sound exactly like every other band out there with this style.
COMPLETELY AGREE! Finntroll is a great example along with Amon amarth as stated earlier. Viking and folk metal, it just fits. I do like some metal core like Glass jaw(?), despised icon, and carnifex. but really it is over done and usually done poorly.TonyCapa said:
similar.squirrel said:
Thank you for at least not saying something idiotic like "I HATE TEH SKRAMZ." I respect your opinion, but asking this kind of question is somewhat pointless. People have different tastes. I think Meshuggah wouldn't be as good if it didn't have the vocal style singing its unique lyrics. That said, it's better to branch out into different sub-genres of metal to find screaming done well. Most modern death metal is shit, but melodic death metal? That stuff is great. Just check out post-metal and some melodic, you'll find screaming that's more tastefully done.