A question to the grown adult men of the Escapist

[LokiArchetype]

All PEOPLE are potential rapists, gender is completely irrelevant.

How is it?

Whether or not the figure is 98% or not, men are still overwhelmingly the perpetrators of sexual assaults, and women are overwhelmingly the victims. Regardless of the generally unexamined horrors of male rape, gender is still a big factor.

It's interesting how women will harp on about how most cases of rape against women are unreported so the figure is even higher and more shocking...

But all of a sudden unreported cases don't matter when its a female victimizing a male.

"Men aren't victims of rape" is the very attitude that keeps said victims from coming forward.

 

[Bebus]

Like it or not, some guys are absolute jerks who should be ashamed to call themselves men. Just as some women are equally horrible.

Yes, the guy was a massive jerk. But that does not make the girl completely innocent in the encounter; getting massively drunk and agreeing (that was the tipping point to me) to whatever happens makes her around equally responsible in this instance.

If she had resisted then the police should be called.

Girls know fine well that most men are, at some level or other, driven by desire for sex and the accompanying pride/arrogance. Some are more restrained than other, but that is how it is, that is how humanity has become so amazing. If a girl decides to get hammered in a room full of men she does not know, then does not even say 'no' to a guy coming on to her, the guy might well be a sleazy douche but the girl did the equivalent of walking down the shady ally where those hookers got murdered last week.

 

[Princess Rose]

All PEOPLE are potential rapists, gender is completely irrelevant.

How is it?

Whether or not the figure is 98% or not, men are still overwhelmingly the perpetrators of sexual assaults, and women are overwhelmingly the victims. Regardless of the generally unexamined horrors of male rape, gender is still a big factor.

Because anyone CAN do it. Hence potential. It's more common for men, but 2% is still 2%.

Everyone is also a potential murderer. It doesn't mean we assume that everyone IS one - just that we recognize the possibility.

 

[Kargathia]

This might sound a little tactless, but you might want to consider looking at this in another way.

The moral sides of what happened are close to irrelevant, and right now the only thing you actually have to deal with is how to go on. You've got two issues: between you and him, and between you and her.

the matter between you and him is whether you want to press charges, hit him, or get revenge in some horribly convoluted and enjoyable matter. It's kinda all up to you, and you don't really need any advice on that one either.
Just don't get yourself criminally charged in the process.

As to her: you said yourself you still love her, and she suffers from this all.
Regardless of how much of the blame is hers, you'd be quite the jerk if you'd make her life even worse by dumping her now.
Check later whether you feel you can still trust her enough to give her a second chance. Right now there's someone you love feeling like shit.

I'd suggest you go and do something about that.

 

[intheweeds]

Situation described in this thread: OMG rape

Situation described in this thread if the genders were reversed: lol awesome

See that's the thing, I know how women feel about this. The situation would never be reversed.

Women don't have the same parts and/or responsibility shirking abilities as men either.

Sometimes I hate these forums. They're just ridiculously sexist/misandrist.

Full of ludicrous generalisations and willful ignorance.

I really should stop coming into these threads, they just inevitably upset me.

Women are not physically capable of getting a guy pregnant and never being seen again. Is that not a fact? I'm not trying to be sexist. When a woman gets drunk and fucks a guy, she puts herself at risk of pregnancy. When a guy does it he puts someone else at risk of pregnancy. That is simply a natural fact.

 

[Princess Rose]

you don't have the physical capability of getting a guy pregnant and fucking off never to be seen again though. If you actually had a dick would it change how you felt/acted?

Not having a dick, I really have no idea.

You are indeed correct about the first part. I was thinking more of the betrayal of my friend, rather than the purely biological consequences. I was on the pill at the time, so pregnancy was very very unlikely.

 

[fenrizz]

Situation described in this thread: OMG rape

Situation described in this thread if the genders were reversed: lol awesome

See that's the thing, I know how women feel about this. The situation would never be reversed.

Women don't have the same parts and/or responsibility shirking abilities as men either.

Sometimes I hate these forums. They're just ridiculously sexist/misandrist.

Full of ludicrous generalisations and willful ignorance.

I really should stop coming into these threads, they just inevitably upset me.

Women are not physically capable of getting a guy pregnant and never being seen again. Is that not a fact? I'm not trying to be sexist. When a woman gets drunk and fucks a guy, she puts herself at risk of pregnancy. When a guy does it he puts someone else at risk of pregnancy. That is simply a natural fact.

Situation described in this thread: OMG rape

Situation described in this thread if the genders were reversed: lol awesome

See that's the thing, I know how women feel about this. The situation would never be reversed.

Women don't have the same parts and/or responsibility shirking abilities as men either.

Um... ahem.... **raises hand**

Hi. I'm female (just in case my profile name wasn't obvious enough). And I was in pretty much this situation, but with the genders reversed. And I was the seducer.

I'm not much of a drinker. I don't like going over a 3 on the drunk scale. Warm, a little tipsy, but not much more than that. At least not socially.

I've slept with guys who were drunk off their asses. Probably not a 10, cause I doubt they could "function" that drunk, but guys who were way drunker than I was. And there was one case where it was with someone who I knew was dating one of my friends. There were... other issues involved, but it was basically your situation, gender reversed.

So... yeah. Not saying it was right - it was certainly one of my more "super *****" moments, and one I'm not particularly proud of.

But, while I agree that the guy in your situation was a pig, I wouldn't say that it would never happen the other way. Women are as capable of shirking responsibility and taking what they want as men. Trust me.

you don't have the physical capability of getting a guy pregnant and fucking off never to be seen again though. If you actually had a dick would it change how you felt/acted?

Very one sided view I must say.
Woman have the ability to become pregnant, keep the child, deny the father visitation (or at least keep it to the bare minimum which is every 2nd weekend where I live) and claim child support.

 

[Bebus]

Let's look at it another way: you say alcohol does not excuse behaviour, so let's remove it from this story.

Hot girl sitting at a coffee shop, your friend's girlfriend. You walk up and start chatting. It becomes flirting, when you jokingly suggest taking it further. Girl says yes. You go home, she asks if you have a condom. You say no, girl says 'oh well' and gets on with it.

The guy in that situation was indeed a dick for even considering such an action, but who was the one actually responsible?

 

[Sperium 3000]

All PEOPLE are potential rapists, gender is completely irrelevant.

How is it?

Whether or not the figure is 98% or not, men are still overwhelmingly the perpetrators of sexual assaults, and women are overwhelmingly the victims. Regardless of the generally unexamined horrors of male rape, gender is still a big factor.

It's interesting how women will harp on about how most cases of rape against women are unreported so the figure is even higher and more shocking...

But all of a sudden unreported cases don't matter when its a female victimizing a male.

"Men aren't victims of rape" is the very attitude that keeps said victims from coming forward.

Thank you, it's nice to see a like minded person here.

Seconded. Gender means nothing. As a child (I'm male, by the way), I was abused by my baby sitter. When she discovered that, my mother dragged the sitter outside and beat her to a pulp (Angry moms are scary like that). Had been the genders reversed, what would change? It's the same crime, hence it must have the shame punishment and conotations. Women are as much capable of heinous acts as men. That is not to say all women are evil bitches, heck no, I love women, most of them are awesome people. But there's always rotten eggs.

 

[Princess Rose]

Haha, if only, that would have been one magical ninja trick. XD

Although we did manage to say nearly the same thing in reply to a third post. ^^ We appear to be on a roll.

Edit: And there's number 4. ^^;;

 

[intheweeds]

Situation described in this thread: OMG rape

Situation described in this thread if the genders were reversed: lol awesome

See that's the thing, I know how women feel about this. The situation would never be reversed.

Women don't have the same parts and/or responsibility shirking abilities as men either.

Sometimes I hate these forums. They're just ridiculously sexist/misandrist.

Full of ludicrous generalisations and willful ignorance.

I really should stop coming into these threads, they just inevitably upset me.

Women are not physically capable of getting a guy pregnant and never being seen again. Is that not a fact? I'm not trying to be sexist. When a woman gets drunk and fucks a guy, she puts herself at risk of pregnancy. When a guy does it he puts someone else at risk of pregnancy. That is simply a natural fact.

Situation described in this thread: OMG rape

Situation described in this thread if the genders were reversed: lol awesome

See that's the thing, I know how women feel about this. The situation would never be reversed.

Women don't have the same parts and/or responsibility shirking abilities as men either.

Um... ahem.... **raises hand**

Hi. I'm female (just in case my profile name wasn't obvious enough). And I was in pretty much this situation, but with the genders reversed. And I was the seducer.

I'm not much of a drinker. I don't like going over a 3 on the drunk scale. Warm, a little tipsy, but not much more than that. At least not socially.

I've slept with guys who were drunk off their asses. Probably not a 10, cause I doubt they could "function" that drunk, but guys who were way drunker than I was. And there was one case where it was with someone who I knew was dating one of my friends. There were... other issues involved, but it was basically your situation, gender reversed.

So... yeah. Not saying it was right - it was certainly one of my more "super *****" moments, and one I'm not particularly proud of.

But, while I agree that the guy in your situation was a pig, I wouldn't say that it would never happen the other way. Women are as capable of shirking responsibility and taking what they want as men. Trust me.

you don't have the physical capability of getting a guy pregnant and fucking off never to be seen again though. If you actually had a dick would it change how you felt/acted?

Very one sided view I must say.
Woman have the ability to become pregnant, keep the child, deny the father visitation (or at least keep it to the bare minimum which is every 2nd weekend where I live) and claim child support.

I'm honestly very sorry to hear that. Where I am from the laws on that sort of thing sound a lot more equal. I have never heard recently of a man who wanted custody of his child being turned down just because he is a man. I've seen a lot of women lose custody as well. The better parent should have most of the custody. The point is irrelevant to this discussion.

I stand by the view still, lets say she did keep the baby and keep you from it, etc. She has had to go through being pregnant alone, and now is a single mother who's education and future is mostly fucked while the man, although he may feel sad, can really do whatever he wants. He can keep it a secret from the whole world if he wants. If she's young and it was a one night stand, she has to go through 9 months of embarrassment with her friends and family, etc. It's just a biological fact.

 

[TsunamiWombat]

Yeah, thats a 10. The bad kind of 10. The 'Technically that was rape' 10.

Men HAVE been put through court and LOST for doing less. Guys, Do not do NOT do NOT NOT NOT have sex with a woman who is shitfaced because she can contest consent later and YOU WILL LOSE, and this is completly irrespective of the moral problem of taking advantage of a drunk.

Is it wrong? Yes. Is it indicative of a lack of respect, for ones self or for the woman? Somewhat. Does it happen all the time? Yes.

Because people want to screw. It's programmed into us. It's burned into our retina's. Humans will seek food, shelter, and sex, not always in that order. And why not? It satisfys deep seated instinctual urges. It feels good. It causes a chemical release of endorphins in the body that makes everything feel great. It is, in effect, the perfect (albiet brief) high and quite frankly it's difficult to blame someone for having difficulty resisting it.

But it's a matter of respect. Self respect too. If she's drunk, don't stick it in, simple enough.

Let's look at it another way: you say alcohol does not excuse behaviour, so let's remove it from this story.

Hot girl sitting at a coffee shop, your friend's girlfriend. You walk up and start chatting. It becomes flirting, when you jokingly suggest taking it further. Girl says yes. You go home, she asks if you have a condom. You say no, girl says 'oh well' and gets on with it.

The guy in that situation was indeed a dick for even considering such an action, but who was the one actually responsible?

Takes two to tango. Both are equally responsible. You control where you whip your willy. Have self control issues? Crank it before you leave the house to let off steam.

 

[Thaluikhain]

All PEOPLE are potential rapists, gender is completely irrelevant.

How is it?

Whether or not the figure is 98% or not, men are still overwhelmingly the perpetrators of sexual assaults, and women are overwhelmingly the victims. Regardless of the generally unexamined horrors of male rape, gender is still a big factor.

Because anyone CAN do it. Hence potential. It's more common for men, but 2% is still 2%.

Everyone is also a potential murderer. It doesn't mean we assume that everyone IS one - just that we recognize the possibility.

I'm not denying that anyone can doing. I'm not saying that gender is the sole factor, merely that's it's a very large one, and shouldn't be dismissed.

 

[intheweeds]

Situation described in this thread: OMG rape

Situation described in this thread if the genders were reversed: lol awesome

See that's the thing, I know how women feel about this. The situation would never be reversed.

Women don't have the same parts and/or responsibility shirking abilities as men either.

Sometimes I hate these forums. They're just ridiculously sexist/misandrist.

Full of ludicrous generalisations and willful ignorance.

I really should stop coming into these threads, they just inevitably upset me.

Women are not physically capable of getting a guy pregnant and never being seen again. Is that not a fact? I'm not trying to be sexist. When a woman gets drunk and fucks a guy, she puts herself at risk of pregnancy. When a guy does it he puts someone else at risk of pregnancy. That is simply a natural fact.

STDS and the psychological ramifications are only something that happens to women then?

Women are perfectly capable of seducing men that are in a relationship and causing social distress. Which you seemed to be insinuating wasn't possible.

however you slice it, pregnancy isn't the only unwanted side effect of an ill thought out liaison. And you're being sexist by just dismissing every other consequence.

just because other side effects exist doesn't make this sexist. The fact that i didn't mention std's is exactly because this is something both sexes can transmit. I'm not dismissing it. I can't fuck my g/f properly for six fucking months. There is no dismissing that. It's irrelevant to my point. I am talking about one specific fact. Women cannot get men pregnant. That's not sexist.

 

[winginson]

My views are these:
If he and she are sober its fine.
If he and she are drunk its fine.
If he is sober and she is drunk then its wrong.
If she is pratically passed out then its very wrong.

For me it comes down to whether any manipulation is going on and whether they are capable of saying no. If they are both drunk enough that "It just seemed like a thing to do" (I've heard that excuse alot) then fine, if he knows she is drunk enough to not make a rational decision then its bad.