A rant to valve.

[NLS]

I really don't understand your criticism. It's not really Valve's fault that they make games that are so awesome that people play them for many years. In fact, I think it's great that they continue to fully support those games. And as for your rant about the free hats: would you rather have free nothing? I don't care about the hats at all, but I guess it's kind of nice for TF2 players.

I also don't really see how they are not being creative, apart from the fact that they only make FPSs. But given their genre, they are one of the most innovative companies around. This is a company that made Half-Life, Portal, Counter-Strike, Team Fortress and Left 4 Dead. Each of these games are immensely popular and contained many innovative features. The only criticism I can think of is that they don't seem to develop games very fast.

They are NOT popular. Compair them to Call of Duty, the numbers of people in one black ops playlist will stampead that 25000 playing TF2. Valve is closing its market, and they are loosing supporters, It's either come up with something new, or die out.

Both CS and CSS right now have about twice the players each of CoD on Steam. Sure, there's probably more people out the playing CoD on XboX, but that's not Valve's market yet.

 

[Netrigan]

The Orange Box, containing TF2, Portal, HL2 and the episodes, and still costing LESS than any other single game on the market... that alone should be enough to make people happy.

You know what, I'm going to burst this bubble.

I bought HL2 when it came out. I bought Episode 1 when it came out.

When Episode 2 came out, I was not offered the choice to buy it at the same price as Episode 1... I had to buy a more expensive product that featured several games I already owned and several more I had no intention of playing.

Eventually I got around to Portal, which made the purchase price more palatable, but I was pissed at Valve for a good long time... and would have continued to be so had I not enjoyed Portal.

 

[Taerdin]

It's either come up with something new, or die out.

Steam controls 50-70% of the direct download PC market, which is a $4 billion market. Valve announced last october that they had 200% year-over-year growth, their biggest year ever. Valve is said to be more profitable per employee than Apple or Google.

Die out? Hardly.

[SOURCE] [http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2011/0228/technology-gabe-newell-videogames-valve-online-mayhem.html]

 

[Plurralbles]

the pro scene in Counter Strike Source is pretty awesome so, like Broodwar and Blizzard, I really don't care if they update their games or not cuz' CS:S is great and so is Broodwar but a CS: NEW isn't really needed.

A good game is a good game and the less i have to keep updating in a series the more I like it.

 

[subject_87]

If they were 'milking franchises dry', they'd be up to Half-Life Ninety Billion, but instead the next one's nowhere to be seen. Also, as for 'doing the same thing over and over', here are the premises of their IPs, see if there's much repetition:

A scientist must battle aliens and soldiers in a remote facility, and later topples a totalitarian, Orwellian regime.
Two long-standing corporate rivals recruit mercenaries to blow each other up.
An insane computer makes you test a teleportation device.
Whatever DoTA's premise is, I can't be bothered to look it up.

Granted, I am a bit annoyed by the constant parade of promotional items in TF2, but it's still as fun as ever, and did you know that you can buy and play non-Valve games on Steam? Shocking, I know.

And hey, they just hired the guy who made Thief and Deus Ex, so they've gotten more stuff coming down the pipeline for sure...

 

[Flames66]

Team Fortress 2
How can I hate such a great game? I don't. It's the market based around the game. What happens whenever most steam games come out? I get an update where if I prebuy a game, I get a hat in TF2. Valve's entire market is based around it. And valve has grown calm to this idea, keep the game, people like it, we still make money, we get rich. This is a cheap, heartless way to kick a gamer in the balls. Valve, Your money can't come souly from hats! For chrissakes come up with new ideas! I don't need a virtual hat for forking out 60 bucks on a new game! I NEED THE GAME!

I don't see how that is a kick in the balls. It looks more like a nice extra for something to me. What is the argument here for it being a negative thing?

 

[Danpascooch]

Really I'm thinking this is more of a rant on the whole gaming industry. Name a title from a major developer which came out recently and doesn't have a number on the end. Homefront. ok cool, now name one with an original concept. Yea.
Alright now try it with an indie developer. (minecraft doesn't count, clearly brilliant and in defiance of the stagnation of the games industry) Rules: no 2d sidescroller or galaga clone. Damn, got me again.

I have a feeling you'll just redefine your vague "recent" and "original" terms to invalidate anything we present even if it's valid, but here's my try.

Major Developer Original IPs:

Recent: Red Dead Redemption, Arkham Asylum

Upcoming: L.A. Noire

There are some examples from about 3 minutes of thinking off the top of my head, I could come up with plenty more if needed, again, I know "recent" is up to interpretation, but these games came out well after Valve tried anything original.

Indie Games:

Recent: Amnesia: Dark Descent (not being able to fight back was a very original way of doing a horror game)

Upcoming: I don't know, but not for lack of titles, but lack of publicity, Indie games by definition are not highly financed, so they don't have a large marketing dept.



We all love Valve (hopefully) but the OP's complaint is valid, they are swimming in money, so there's no excuse to not hire an abundance of new talent to start getting out games at a reasonable rate. Pretty soon Episode 3 is going to be the new Duke Nukem Forever.

 

[Freshman]

Really I'm thinking this is more of a rant on the whole gaming industry. Name a title from a major developer which came out recently and doesn't have a number on the end. Homefront. ok cool, now name one with an original concept. Yea.
Alright now try it with an indie developer. (minecraft doesn't count, clearly brilliant and in defiance of the stagnation of the games industry) Rules: no 2d sidescroller or galaga clone. Damn, got me again.

I have a feeling you'll just redefine your vague "recent" and "original" terms to invalidate anything we present even if it's valid, but here's my try.

Major Developer Original IPs:

Recent: Red Dead Redemption, Arkham Asylum

Upcoming: L.A. Noire

There are some examples from about 3 minutes of thinking off the top of my head, I could come up with plenty more if needed, again, I know "recent" is up to interpretation, but these games came out well after Valve tried anything original.
.

I actually had no intent on going back on that and I think that those are pretty good examples, I had to think about Red Dead, but realistically Revolver wasn't really sandbox was it? yea, you got me yo. Unlike the guy yesterday who was trying to tell me that my argument was "we shouldn't use controllers anymore"

 

[Danpascooch]

Really I'm thinking this is more of a rant on the whole gaming industry. Name a title from a major developer which came out recently and doesn't have a number on the end. Homefront. ok cool, now name one with an original concept. Yea.
Alright now try it with an indie developer. (minecraft doesn't count, clearly brilliant and in defiance of the stagnation of the games industry) Rules: no 2d sidescroller or galaga clone. Damn, got me again.

I have a feeling you'll just redefine your vague "recent" and "original" terms to invalidate anything we present even if it's valid, but here's my try.

Major Developer Original IPs:

Recent: Red Dead Redemption, Arkham Asylum

Upcoming: L.A. Noire

There are some examples from about 3 minutes of thinking off the top of my head, I could come up with plenty more if needed, again, I know "recent" is up to interpretation, but these games came out well after Valve tried anything original.
.

I actually had no intent on going back on that and I think that those are pretty good examples, I had to think about Red Dead, but realistically Revolver wasn't really sandbox was it? yea, you got me yo. Unlike the guy yesterday who was trying to tell me that my argument was "we shouldn't use controllers anymore"

Well shit, you admitted a mistake on an online forum? Massive respect, most asshats try to go down with the ship. Thanks.

 

[Crazie_Guy]

OP based pretty much entirely on massive assumptions that all steam owners only play counter strike or TF2 and only buy anything else to get a TF2 hat. Rather silly, and completely wrong.

Portal 2 is nothing to scoff at. Neither is the eventual episode 3. Neither is their upcoming DOTA 2 project, and if they were looking to sit around and stagnate, what's with all the big name talent they're constantly hiring? Just so no one else can have them? And if it were even possible for the idea bucket to run dry for a company so full of talent, they have the equally talented modding community to hire from, a practice that has already resulted in some of their greatest games.

 

[Gindil]

...

*Fanboi Valve Rant warning*

Dude, seriously. I can respect someone's opinion if it actually has something to back it up, but Masterchief, your's doesn't pass the smell test here.

What can we say about valve? They are a great company. They made such an open engine to create a community, an Easy to use SDK for game makers to get their start. They made great games like Half Life, Counter Strike: Source, and Team Fortress 2...
But they have seemed to peak...

Lets look at what they did to make themselves disliked currently in my eyes.

Alright, but I'm going to criticize you HARD if something is wrong. Fair warning.

Alright, so to start this, we have to look back back. Back to the realease of Counterstike and Team Fortress. Both games helped valve carve their name into the gaming market. Fast forward to now. How did valve make all of it's money? Feeding off of the same games for years now. Counter Strike Source is still the #1 game played on steam (An extreamly sad fact). But I can understand this, and I forgive them for this, because if it is not broken, don't fix it. But are steam players seriously so closed minded that this is the main game they play? Why don't they go explore new titles? If you ask me, It is pointless to have all of these other games on steam if your market is based around a crap old game.

... ?

O_O
-_-
O_O

Okay... You started with a doozy. Personally, I never was a CSS player myself, but the appeal is in the fact that the game is easy to pick up and play, but hard to master. Everyone starts off with the same playing advantage, and the weapons (after a LOT of bitching from the players) finally has a modicum of balance. Top that off with all of the tournaments that are run freely and the fact that neither of the CSS games (Source, 1.6) take up a lot of graphix on a computer.

You might as well be trying to piss on Starcraft 1 because Starcraft 2 came out...

But however, valve does have its ways to try to tempt gamers into buying these games.

So goes to the 2nd reason I dislike valve.
Team Fortress 2
How can I hate such a great game? I don't. It's the market based around the game. What happens whenever most steam games come out? I get an update where if I prebuy a game, I get a hat in TF2. Valve's entire market is based around it. And valve has grown calm to this idea, keep the game, people like it, we still make money, we get rich. This is a cheap, heartless way to kick a gamer in the balls. Valve, Your money can't come souly from hats! For chrissakes come up with new ideas! I don't need a virtual hat for forking out 60 bucks on a new game! I NEED THE GAME! I admit, I play Team fortress 2 a lot. I play counterstrike a lot. But come the realease of Crysis 2, I wont. I'll have a game to play. And I'm not buying it on steam. Hell, I'm probably buying it on Xbox.

*eye twitches*

Ok, you're a Crysis fanboy. That's cool. But even though the Team Hatress 2 hasn't enveloped you, I doubt you see the benefit to TF2 in having a comedic game that is just really fun to play.

Look at Call of Duty's tournament scene and look at what can be done with the TF2 scene. Crysis may look good, but there's the obvious barrier of who can afford to play this professionally.

If anything, all three games will have their fans. Valve just keeps them around with dedicated servers among other things.

But I want to help valve.

This is my point, COME OUT WITH NEW IDEAS. Sure, portal 2 will probably be a good game, but not great. A few new things, but nothing outstanding. Valve, eventually people will move one from these games, what happens when your current generation grows up? Doing the same things over and over again will not attract new people, you're stuck with what you have, and fanbois are like Oil, they don't last forever. Valve, come up with new Ideas. A new game series, But make it more innovative and open to other gamers! Don't restrict yourself to the same damn thing, open up!

... What?

Yes, I'm making my game through the source engine, but this is to test out how I like making games. I am trying not to limit myself, but I will probably have to.

So valve, if you want to be arround for a long time, and inscribe your name in greatness, Think outside of the box. You can do it. You've done it before. I'd absolutly hate for you to be remembered as a way to pass time.

... People know Gabe Newell by NAME. I don't think Valve even NEEDS to inscribe their names even more than they already have with the franchises they support.

I know that steam was made mainly for valve games, but look at all of it's potential. They made one of the most powerful gaming tools in the universe, and they let gamers sink into their valve based comfort zone.

And ironically, you dismiss Valve tapping into their community for ideas on how to improve games for a cockamamie idea that their ideas are getting stale?

Again... what?

Edit:
Okay, yes valve has created some cool ideas in the past, but none of them have reached the mainstream sucess of other titles. To this point, Valve has a sliver of the online game market, While other companies have a booming percent. It is like valve is becoming an exclusive cult, and their market is dying out because of this. You may think the games are popular, but look at the numbers, and compair those to other games. (Not the steam versions)

Counterstrike is still one of, if not THE most played game because it's simple on graphics, it can be picked up by anyone and it allows for pretty dynamic gameplay mostly.

Personally, I like the TF2 scene and how new strategies come up almost all the time.

Now that people are begining to bring age into the topic, Let's concider something.
If halo 2 were still active, it would probably have 50,000 players. I sure as hell know I would play it. And bungi was able to make 2 more mainstream success games, barley breaking a sweat. Valve has a lot of compitition, and it is taking over the market. I just want them to stay arround, y'know? I like TF2, but I get bored of it. I love half life, but Playing the same campaign over and over gets boring.

And that's the exact reason that you will never hear about CoD or Halo on the lines of Valve. After 5 years, they stop supporting the game. It's the same with EA and sports titles. The servers shut down and the customer is FORCED to upgrade to a new one.

There's at least 2 other games that people continue to play constantly and support with 5$ for the servers:

Day of Defeat
Natural Selection

And they continue to be supported so long as people want to play those mods. You're not showing the entire picture of the value in Source SDK, or the various ways people make their own extensions to the Valve brand. That may be a reason people are skeptical of your biased view.

 

[Trolldor]

Not saying they were never popular, Saying they are not currently popular. Look at the people playing counterstrike and tf2, combined this doesn't equal a blops playlist.

What the shit? I ask again, where are you getting these numbers?

LFD2 is like what, a year old, and it has like 1000 players? I just think valve needs a new open ended online game.

1; As far as I know the L4D2 community is still really active, but I don't play it so I wouldn't know. But I can tell you that even L4D is still fairly active.
2; Valve have enough on their current plate to be adding anything more to it.

http://store.steampowered.com/stats

I suspect he's not paying much attention.

Team Fortress 2 alone had 20 000 players today.
Left 4 dead 2 had 15000.

This is just today.

 

[RA92]

If you're trying to provoke me with a troll thread, it's not working on me.

Heh heh, I stopped myself from writing a large counter-attack after I saw:

1) His name is MasterChiefPwn.
2) He took Bungie to the finals in March Mayhem.
3) He is going to get Crysis 2 on the XBox even though he's such a PC FPS enthusiast.

Go figure.

 

[Dogstile]

Really I'm thinking this is more of a rant on the whole gaming industry. Name a title from a major developer which came out recently and doesn't have a number on the end.

Mindjack.

Sorry, just wanted to throw that in your face, i'm feeling mean tonight >

Oh, you got me there but...wait a minute... you left of the rest of my quote. Nice. like the rest of it says, "now name one with an original concept." 3rd person shooter based around the taking of cover is hardly anything new or different in any way. (the whole mindjacking business is just their particular gimick so that the game has at least something slightly original. but not really.)

want that in your face, i'm a night >

amazing what misquoting can do.

What, does it not count because 3rd person shooting is in the game? Do you want this original game to also not be played on controllers because thats been done before?

Don't be putting your shit in my mouth. I didn't saying no damn thing about not using controllers. Thats all you going off on some shit ass logic. Now, I am saying that Mindjack is not original. Saying that game is original is like saying COD black ops is original because now you can dive forward! Or saying that BFBC 2 is original because the terrain is destructible. Crysis 2, COD with super powers! Most modern shooting based games are just a developer taking an established formula (3PS, Cod, BF, halo) and adding there own little thing to make it slightly different. The core game play is always the same and sometimes you barely notice the little addition they make.

Ok, first off, you're raging too much. Take a couple deep breathes, It might help a little.

Now, the controllers was sarcasm, I was making a silly phrase to make my point. Now, if we go by your logic, Cod, crysis 2, battlefield, all of these aren't original because they use an established formula and add to it, but the core gameplay is the same and you don't notice its there most of the time.

Now, using my Mindjack example again, I can tell you that its a core gameplay mechanic, you do notice its there and it definitely does change the core gameplay. In fact, its stupid, if not backwards logic. If something was going to be original by your standards, it'd have to be a new genre completely. A game where you didn't shoot people, talk to people, drive or click on anything. Why? Because that's original! Now try and think of a game where you can't shoot, click, talk or drive.

No seriously, try it. Its not really something I expect you can do, its alright, I can't do it either. Why? Because those are gameplay mechanics that games need to use for people to interact with them.

Oh, and by the way, aside from black ops, I find your other examples to be original, as BFBC2 /tried/ (and failed, but they tried) to put in realistic building destruction and failed. (Red faction doesn't really count on that front, unless you can count a guy swinging a sledgehammer through a wall in a military base "realistic") Crysis 2 actually makes the suit a core part of its gameplay, and if you don't use it properly, you will die, horribly on the harder modes.

Oh, and for the unwarranted hostility I got from you, reported. Don't bother replying unless you can do so whilst being civilized.

 

[Freshman]

Don't be putting your shit in my mouth. I didn't saying no damn thing about not using controllers. Thats all you going off on some shit ass logic. Now, I am saying that Mindjack is not original. Saying that game is original is like saying COD black ops is original because now you can dive forward! Or saying that BFBC 2 is original because the terrain is destructible. Crysis 2, COD with super powers! Most modern shooting based games are just a developer taking an established formula (3PS, Cod, BF, halo) and adding there own little thing to make it slightly different. The core game play is always the same and sometimes you barely notice the little addition they make.

Now, the controllers was sarcasm, I was making a silly phrase to make my point. Now, if we go by your logic, Cod, crysis 2, battlefield, all of these aren't original because they use an established formula and add to it, but the core gameplay is the same and you don't notice its there most of the time.

Now, using my Mindjack example again, I can tell you that its a core gameplay mechanic, you do notice its there and it definitely does change the core gameplay. In fact, its stupid, if not backwards logic. If something was going to be original by your standards, it'd have to be a new genre completely. A game where you didn't shoot people, talk to people, drive or click on anything. Why? Because that's original! Now try and think of a game where you can't shoot, click, talk or drive.


Oh, and by the way, aside from black ops, I find your other examples to be original, as BFBC2 /tried/ (and failed, but they tried) to put in realistic building destruction and failed. (Red faction doesn't really count on that front, unless you can count a guy swinging a sledgehammer through a wall in a military base "realistic") Crysis 2 actually makes the suit a core part of its gameplay, and if you don't use it properly, you will die, horribly on the harder modes.

1.)if your going to do sarcasm when people can't hear your voice, make it obvious (/sarcasm)
2.)I played Mindjack for 20 minutes. jacked 3 people, got killed due to idiot AI that controls my body while jacking twice. stopped using it. Found it much easier to just shoot everybody than jack them. IMO, barely noticed the mechanic was there.
3.)Your kinda still misrepresenting my argument. yes, I think that for something to be original, it does need to almost be a new genre completely, but not always. Ima use L4D as an example. it is an FPS, but I would call it original. The enemies are way different than the normal FPS enemies (not just re-skinned guy with gun), and the game itself becomes way different because of it. Or Red Dead redemption. It may be a sandbox, but its the first old westy sandbox, and thats original.
4.)you posted this 2 days before crisis 2 came out, how could you know that not using the super powers on harder modes means you die? If I recall, the demo only had multiplayer...

 

[Dogstile]

Don't be putting your shit in my mouth. I didn't saying no damn thing about not using controllers. Thats all you going off on some shit ass logic. Now, I am saying that Mindjack is not original. Saying that game is original is like saying COD black ops is original because now you can dive forward! Or saying that BFBC 2 is original because the terrain is destructible. Crysis 2, COD with super powers! Most modern shooting based games are just a developer taking an established formula (3PS, Cod, BF, halo) and adding there own little thing to make it slightly different. The core game play is always the same and sometimes you barely notice the little addition they make.

Now, the controllers was sarcasm, I was making a silly phrase to make my point. Now, if we go by your logic, Cod, crysis 2, battlefield, all of these aren't original because they use an established formula and add to it, but the core gameplay is the same and you don't notice its there most of the time.

Now, using my Mindjack example again, I can tell you that its a core gameplay mechanic, you do notice its there and it definitely does change the core gameplay. In fact, its stupid, if not backwards logic. If something was going to be original by your standards, it'd have to be a new genre completely. A game where you didn't shoot people, talk to people, drive or click on anything. Why? Because that's original! Now try and think of a game where you can't shoot, click, talk or drive.


Oh, and by the way, aside from black ops, I find your other examples to be original, as BFBC2 /tried/ (and failed, but they tried) to put in realistic building destruction and failed. (Red faction doesn't really count on that front, unless you can count a guy swinging a sledgehammer through a wall in a military base "realistic") Crysis 2 actually makes the suit a core part of its gameplay, and if you don't use it properly, you will die, horribly on the harder modes.

1.)if your going to do sarcasm when people can't hear your voice, make it obvious (/sarcasm)
2.)I played Mindjack for 20 minutes. jacked 3 people, got killed due to idiot AI that controls my body while jacking twice. stopped using it. Found it much easier to just shoot everybody than jack them. IMO, barely noticed the mechanic was there.
3.)Your kinda still misrepresenting my argument. yes, I think that for something to be original, it does need to almost be a new genre completely, but not always. Ima use L4D as an example. it is an FPS, but I would call it original. The enemies are way different than the normal FPS enemies (not just re-skinned guy with gun), and the game itself becomes way different because of it. Or Red Dead redemption. It may be a sandbox, but its the first old westy sandbox, and thats original.
4.)you posted this 2 days before crisis 2 came out, how could you know that not using the super powers on harder modes means you die? If I recall, the demo only had multiplayer...

1. I suggested something outrageous and completely stupid. If that's not clear for sarcasm, then i'm find with you not understanding.

2. No, you just didn't use it. Its a new concept, its original, and its fun, provided you use it as intended, and not as a "right, this guy will take all the damage for me" and counting on the AI to survive for you. Its meant to make mistakes, otherwise you could just sit in cover and let everyone kill eachother.

3. So? By your logic, those games are just taking a spin off a game style and applying it. I mean, red dead and GTA 4 only had the differences of not being in a city and you stole horses, not cars! :O (/sarcasm) Left 4 dead, you only shot zombies and got boss zombies every now and then! Total difference (/sarcasm).

4. I'm assuming, considering it was the same on the first Crysis. Also, I have a dirty pirate of a friend who told me about it. Although Piracy isn't all bad, because its convinced me to get it too... But enough of that.

I'm tired of arguing this now. Its boring, so erm, ciao!