That's what the nobles said during the French Revolution! And you know what happened to them? THEY GOT THEIR HEADS CUT OFF BY GIANT FREAKING KNIVES. ALSO CALLED THE GUILLOTINE.RAKtheUndead said:
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A realistic discussion of Pirates vs. Ninjas
- Thread starter Fbuh
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realistically ninjas were busy with espionage and guerrilla warfare and armed with poorly made cheap equipment while pirates often had some military training, guns ranging from pistols to blunderbuss's ( if pirates choose to use pistols them often had 3) also they had ships, cannons and much larger crews
so if in a real combat scenario pirates would have slaughtered the ninjas and stolen there goods before some one could make an "OVER 9000!" joke about the number of dead ninjas
so if in a real combat scenario pirates would have slaughtered the ninjas and stolen there goods before some one could make an "OVER 9000!" joke about the number of dead ninjas
The difficulty becomes: We have plenty of historical record of good pirates. If there was ever a record of a nija pulling an assasination they were not a good ninja. Therefore the only ninja we have to base our theoretical model on are the bad ones, the ones that got caught. It is impossible to decide a contest between the two in any sort of objective fashion.
Are you talking about Pirates or Reavers?...well, actually I guess you can say they're sort of like cousins. Distant crazy space cousins.ThrobbingEgo said:
I'd like to say that the Pirates pistols would likely be moot, as a flintlock pistol wouldn't fire when wet. I'm still a believer that the pirates would never know they were fighting. They'd be poisoned or their ship would be set on fire, or have any number of objects stuck in their backs or necks broken, or smoothered in their sleep.
I do think however if you formed the ninja into a platoon and had them make a headlong charge into the lines of the pirates they'd get rolled. But do you really expect that to happen?
I do think however if you formed the ninja into a platoon and had them make a headlong charge into the lines of the pirates they'd get rolled. But do you really expect that to happen?
As a non-nerd I am forced to look at it frm the perspective that I would make a far better pirate, due to the higher amounts of alcohol involved.
You got it right once. "Ninjas" is not a word, the Japanese alphabet has no standalone S, "Ninja" is the plural form.Fbuh said:
As for your thread however, the whole debate is rather pointless.
Your run of the mill, "arr me hearties" Caribbean pirate would likely never meet with a Ninja.
Even more unlikely would be Pirates having a ship battle with another ship crewed entirely by Ninja. Firstly because Ninja don't work like that and didn't own boats or operate on the open seas in any fashion, secondly because Pirates wouldn't really have much to gain from a hypothetical confrontation with a boat full of (albeit well trained and deceptively well armed) poor Japanese peasants.
Then there's the possibility of land battles, again, Ninja don't function as a massive army. So the chances of a Ninja expeditionary force heading out to the Caribbean is even more unlikely than the chance of enough pirates setting aside their bitter rivalries, forming into a large enough group to be considered an army, then invading a country.
Also, there is the fact that for almost all of Japanese feudal history, when Ninja were at their height, foreigners (ie. Pirates) were generally not treated very nicely, I imagine a band of smelly drunken and violent foreigners would be treated even worse (If you can think of anything worse than being killed) so they wouldn't really be alive long enough to do battle with a hypothetical Ninja army.
Okay then, lets just say, despite the improbabilities, we have a battle.
Ten Ninja, working together and for some reason deciding on open combat rather than the "sneaky sneaky stabby stabby" ways they are accustomed to.
Versus Ten Pirates, on land for some reason and presumably all armed with one or two flintlock pistols each and probably a cutlass as well.
In a straight out fight, somewhere between forty and sixty percent of those pistols are going to miss, they wouldn't have time to reload. So now it's say, five or six Ninja versus ten pirates. And if the Pirates were been drinking the night before, that same day or even at the time of firing, the accuracy would likely plummet further.
Cutlasses are fairly good swords really, I don't imagine it would be a case of Ninja swinging down their mighty Katana and slicing clean through the pirate's blade.
Especially since Ninja, unless they were very lucky and managed to steal one, didn't have Katana on their person at all. Generally, Ninja would be armed with farm tools, often heavily modified to serve better as weapons. So my avatar's depiction of a spatula wielding Ninja (ignoring the chef hat and crab on the shoulder) could actually be more historically accurate than most other modern depictions of Ninja where they are shown as some kind of acrobatic samurai armed with one or sometimes two superbly forged blades with which they cut through stone walls (or a fucking tank). This less than inspiring armament is not so unusual when you consider pretty much all weapons are derived from an agricultural tool of some description. Axes were used on trees, Mace like objects were used for crushing grains, spears and bows have their origins in hunting and knives are used for cutting meat. Turns out, the only weapons at that time that were designed with killing humans in mind (Swords and Guns) are the weapons that the Pirates are wielding.
I would propose that Pirates (damn them) would likely win any face to face battle with Ninja.
However, Ninja are known for being sneaky buggers, and in the unlikely position of being ordered to secretly cause the deaths of some drunken foreigners as opposed to the local Shogun's soldiers doing what was their duty at the time and killing the foreign menace in public by way of execution, then the Ninja would have little problem in doing so. They could simply wait while the Pirates drank themselves into a stupor, then walk in while they're all in a comatose state and slit their throats.
Asking about who would win in a battle between Pirates vs Ninjas is like asking who would win between (and I am calling on my limited knowledge of American things at this point) The Bulls and The Yankees in a game of Elephant Polo. It's never going to happen and the competition requires them to be doing something neither side knows much about or has much practice with. But it would be pretty fucking awesome.
winRetiarySword said:Ohh! This seems like a perfect time to show people this picture I made!!
What do you think?
And now it's been lost in page two, never to be seen again thanks to the "I'll just jump in without reading the whole thread" people. *shakes fist at mythbuster343*RAKtheUndead said:
I figured we were talking about a land battle, as with a ship battle, the pirates would win even faster since Ninja don't have any boats and would just drown.
Ninjas are smart enough to kill pirates the day before the fight. Ninjas win any day of the week.
Has anybody mentioned the part where there's not much evidence of ninjas existing, at least as an occupation? Or that it doesn't take any "martial arts" knowledge to assassinate people, sneak into enemy fortifications, or pretty much anything ninjas are supposed to have done if they did exist?
If we are keeping it real, we're talking about half-starved Japanese peasants with very little experience fighting alcoholic, syphilitic European brawlers who have probably swung a sword more than a few times in anger. It would probably be a horrible, hack-and-slash free for all where everybody who didn't die on the sport succumbed to infection sometime in the next couple of weeks. Honestly I'd rather see Hayabusa vs. Sparrow than the "real" thing any day.
If we are keeping it real, we're talking about half-starved Japanese peasants with very little experience fighting alcoholic, syphilitic European brawlers who have probably swung a sword more than a few times in anger. It would probably be a horrible, hack-and-slash free for all where everybody who didn't die on the sport succumbed to infection sometime in the next couple of weeks. Honestly I'd rather see Hayabusa vs. Sparrow than the "real" thing any day.
That was the basis of my entire argument. They are 2 different peoples on 2 different sides of the world in 2 completely different eras. The goal of the thread was to see what everyone else thought. All in all, the thread it pointless, it's entire purpose to alleviate boredom.
And to one of the other posts: yes, my ninja grammar is incorrect. I have no excuse for that but laziness.
i didn't feel it was much of an epic battle, pretty much just daleks shooting anything that moved. pretty much sumed up with "this is not war, this is pest control"Zombie_Fish said:
If you want to modernize it, the recent Somalian hostage crisis sums it up nicely. SEALS are modern day ninjas. 16 year olds with AK-47s are modern day pirates. Done and done.