A Solution To Piracy

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ItsAChiaotzu

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Catalyst6 said:
Starnerf said:
How would these hypothetical artists live? Presumably they would require some sort of income.
Oh, didn't you know? Once you become competent with an art form you automatically gain the ability to pull large amounts of funding out of the aether.

OT: All artists use their skills to make money. That might not be their *primary* objective, but it's necessary. All the great artists do. Do you think that DaVinci cooked food for all his life? It's a skill, one that requires education and work like any other. They would have to be idiots to not take advantage of it.

I do love it when people try to push this idea. That's like asking a doctor to put so much work and money into learning a skill, then telling him that he should be doing it pro bono on the side, while working a "normal job", the selfish jerk.
I do love it when someone with their sense of superiority puts down an idea without the slightest hint of politeness, it really does show class.

Admittedly, art wouldn't have as higher standard in terms of production value, but in terms of integrity and actual quality it would be volumes better. And no, it's nothing like your analogy, because an art does not benefit society in the same way that being a doctor does, an artist benefits society in mainly if not purely entertainment.
 

ItsAChiaotzu

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Aurgelmir said:
ItsAChiaotzu said:
In my opinion, no art in any form should be made with making money in mind, this is what leads to constant samey music artists and games dominating charts, if all art was made out of the desire to make art then we would have (mostly) consistently high products and piracy wouldn't be an issue.

What are your thoughts?

Aaaand that is not a solution to piracy.


All you are trying to do is create a world where entertainers don't make money, so they will stop caring that you pirate...

Yeah, no that's not right.

How would you make a BILLION DOLLAR MOVIE! without the prospects of making money of it?
Who in their right mind would INVEST in that?

Sorry mate, most games are not art, and even if they were they are fucking expensive to make... so they need to be about money, plain and simple.
Gotta say I agree with that, I believe if there were no money in the industry the only games that would be made would be ones purely for the purpose of art.
 

Twad

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ItsAChiaotzu said:
Admittedly, art wouldn't have as higher standard in terms of production value, but in terms of integrity and actual quality it would be volumes better. And no, it's nothing like your analogy, because an art does not benefit society in the same way that being a doctor does, an artist benefits society in mainly if not purely entertainment.
Oh boy. Art doesnt benefit society. Art is mainly/purely entertainment. Have you read about art history and its effects on science, politics and all that stuff?


This thread is ( now much clearer )

Edit- changed it. Yes i did. Yes i was mistaken.
 

gigastar

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Sep 13, 2010
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While that does present a solution it also will kill the gaming industry as we know it, as you should know making a full game for any console is no small job and often requires artists, animators, programmers, directors, voice actors and motion capture actors then relentless playtesting by people who have forgotten the meaning of fun to make sure the game works and theres no chance of any action causing any kind of failure.

Of couse theres flash games but only very rarely do they last more than 2 hours. And you have to deal with spamvertisement and online companies like mochi media who expect you to pay for a full version of a third rate game.

Also on a side note, wouldnt it be easier to block all the major pirate sites from the web? like that incident with youtube in the middle east (forgot where exactly) that ultimately blocked it from the world for a few hours, before bieng fixed.
 

ItsAChiaotzu

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Twad said:
ItsAChiaotzu said:
Admittedly, art wouldn't have as higher standard in terms of production value, but in terms of integrity and actual quality it would be volumes better. And no, it's nothing like your analogy, because an art does not benefit society in the same way that being a doctor does, an artist benefits society in mainly if not purely entertainment.
Oh boy. Art doesnt benefit society. Art is mainly/purely entertainment. Have you bothered to read about art history and its effects on science, politics and all that stuff? I guess not.

YOu are so wrong and misinformed on so many levels its not even funny.

This thread is oblviously flame bait.
I welcome you to point out where I said (in context) that art doesn't benefit society.
Please provide some evidence for your point of view rather than just insulting me, it doesn't exactly make you seem like the rational one.
 

Wayward Man

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tomtom94 said:
Money rules everything.
Deal with it.
Gotta agree with that, nobodies got the time if you don't have the green... Or red... Or purple.

Although I have to agree with you, ItsAChiaotzu, when it comes to music. And say there are a great deal of musicians who publish solely on the internet with no intentions of making money, and the same with some artists.
Something interesting a favourite band of mine, Radiohead, did was sell one of their albums online and allowed the buyer to pay whatever price they saw fit, not your vision in the slightest, but very interesting.
 

Wayward Man

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Whatever I was writing about here is irrelevant, post wasn't there before... I swear it wasn't.
 

Wolfenbarg

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ItsAChiaotzu said:
In my opinion, no art in any form should be made with making money in mind, this is what leads to constant samey music artists and games dominating charts, if all art was made out of the desire to make art then we would have (mostly) consistently high products and piracy wouldn't be an issue.

To anyone who thinks that artists would be screwed over by the lack of money, artists are being screwed over by the lack of money already, because all the money in these industries are not going to artists, but to mindless crap.

What are your thoughts?
Sorry, but this isn't a solution at all. Do you have any idea how many people there already are making art for art's sake? There are so many people out there making games, movies, music, paintings and who knows what else that throw their products out for free just for exposure, and odds are that they will never be successful with those ventures. Part of that reason is just because we are naturally biased creatures that understand crap when we see it, but the rest of that reason is in the fact that successful pieces of art that will go to mass audience DEMANDS business sense.

One of the most important things that an artist needs to learn about is refinement. Most artists fail miserably because they never rewrite their scripts or songs or never try to re-conceive their failed artistic excursions. And to be fair, art for the sake of art loses a lot of its touch if you continue to recreate it in order to appeal to a mass audience. However, in an attempt to make sure as many people as possible see your piece, refinement is almost always necessary. I personally strive to make movies, so let me use that as an example and break this down.

While the motivation is to make a funny/dramatic/compelling or whatever kind of film, the motivation to moving forwards is money. Let me explain why. In my process of refinement to create the strongest piece of art with the greatest potential for mass market appeal, I would have rewritten my script for this movie at least once, but if I wanted something of quality, probably between 3-4 times. Now following the massive rewrites of the script, I'll also need to do a considerable level of polish to those scripts. Now I have to cast actors, build sets, shoot, possibly reshoot, do a rough cut, add in the digital effects, stamp out a final cut, and finally distribute my piece of art. After all that time, effort, and money I invested in the project, can you conceivably tell me how I could survive off of this movie NOT making any money? If I put in all of that just to have people admire it and then leave, I guarantee you that I will never be capable of making another movie again.

This is already a text wall, and it's not really that in depth of an explanation. I'll just jump to the end of the argument and say that your method does not make art better, it actually makes it a whole lot worse. The incentive isn't just to create your piece of art, but to make a living creating your art. If you can't do that, then there is no reason to not just get a side job and only make small budget projects on the side for fun.
 

vanthebaron

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tomtom94 said:
Money rules everything.
Deal with it.
fucking A, tom. now if the artist is in it for the right reasons (to entertain) money shouldn't matter, but it make everything a lot easier.
 

Mr.Mattress

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Jul 17, 2009
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gl1koz3 said:
Worker 1 to 32 makes food and likes games. Worker 33 to 64 makes games and likes food. Exchange.

Worker 33 to 64 must share in order for the food to come and worker 1 to 32 must share in order for the games to come.

Problem solved.
That's communism, and that'll never work because you assume that:

1) Group 1 Cares about Group 2
2) Group 1 Likes what Group 2 produces
3) Group 2's stuff is good enough for exchange
4) No one in either Group has ambitions to do Both or something different

OT: As a Cartoonist, I wanna be paid for my gosh darn work. If I have to work another job just to live, then there is no point to Cartooning. Your idea doesn't work, because I'd rather be making money on something I love then doing something I love and making money elsewhere.
 

Anarchemitis

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ItsAChiaotzu said:
In my opinion, no art in any form should be made with making money in mind, this is what leads to constant samey music artists and games dominating charts, if all art was made out of the desire to make art then we would have (mostly) consistently high products and piracy wouldn't be an issue.

To anyone who thinks that artists would be screwed over by the lack of money, artists are being screwed over by the lack of money already, because all the money in these industries are not going to artists, but to mindless crap.

What are your thoughts?
It think your opinion is a weak justification for your own piracy, and that you are priding yourself in the crime you commit.

You think for example Steven Spielberg or Peter Jackson should make fantastic movies simply for the art for art's sake? Or Queen? Or the Berlin Symphony Orchestra? Alan Moore, Art Speigelman, John Lasseter, Till Lindemann, Stephen Fry, they're all artists to an extent, and they shouldn't profit from what they do?
Exceptions to such a generalization that All Artists subscribe to unfair contracts is an almost ignorant characterization.
 

ItsAChiaotzu

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Anarchemitis said:
ItsAChiaotzu said:
In my opinion, no art in any form should be made with making money in mind, this is what leads to constant samey music artists and games dominating charts, if all art was made out of the desire to make art then we would have (mostly) consistently high products and piracy wouldn't be an issue.

To anyone who thinks that artists would be screwed over by the lack of money, artists are being screwed over by the lack of money already, because all the money in these industries are not going to artists, but to mindless crap.

What are your thoughts?
It think your opinion is a weak justification for your own piracy, and that you are priding yourself in the crime you commit.

You think for example Steven Spielberg or Peter Jackson should make fantastic movies simply for the art for art's sake? Or Queen? Or the Berlin Symphony Orchestra?
I don't pirate, this thread was born of the fact that I hate the music industry's obsession with substandard "artists".

But yes, I think they should if they want to create art, it's meant to be expression, and business chokes that expression, and again, I understand it would have lower production quality but it would have much more integrity and real quality.
 

Ewyx

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People have the tendency to create art. People do it for personal reasons, not for financial gain. Art can't die.
 

Anarchemitis

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ItsAChiaotzu said:
I don't pirate, this thread was born of the fact that I hate the music industry's obsession with substandard "artists".

But yes, I think they should if they want to create art, it's meant to be expression, and business chokes that expression, and again, I understand it would have lower production quality but it would have much more integrity and real quality.
Then by all means, write them a letter.
If there's anything one could learn out of the movie The Shawshank Redeption, it's that Hope is a good thing, maybe even the best thing, and that writing letters works.
 

Catalyst6

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Apr 21, 2010
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Anarchemitis said:
It think your opinion is a weak justification for your own piracy, and that you are priding yourself in the crime you commit.

You think for example Steven Spielberg or Peter Jackson should make fantastic movies simply for the art for art's sake? Or Queen? Or the Berlin Symphony Orchestra?
Actually, I was thinking the same thing when I stepped away from this forum. Isn't the OP pretty much a verbatim copy of the pirate's justification, that art should be free, and it's okay to break the laws to ensure that it is (aka stealing it)?
 

ItsAChiaotzu

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Catalyst6 said:
Anarchemitis said:
It think your opinion is a weak justification for your own piracy, and that you are priding yourself in the crime you commit.

You think for example Steven Spielberg or Peter Jackson should make fantastic movies simply for the art for art's sake? Or Queen? Or the Berlin Symphony Orchestra?
Actually, I was thinking the same thing when I stepped away from this forum. Isn't the OP pretty much a verbatim copy of the pirate's justification, that art should be free, and it's okay to break the laws to ensure that it is (aka stealing it)?
Please would you read all of the posts before commenting.

I AM NOT A PIRATE
 

Dr_Steve_Brule

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ItsAChiaotzu said:
I don't pirate, this thread was born of the fact that I hate the music industry's obsession with substandard "artists".

But yes, I think they should if they want to create art, it's meant to be expression, and business chokes that expression, and again, I understand it would have lower production quality but it would have much more integrity and real quality.
Making music costs money.
People want to get payed for what they do.
If i'm making art, and it's not getting me any income, no matter how much I like doing it, I will abandon it eventually. Why? Because working in 2 separate jobs is HARD. It's very hard.
You either devote yourself to one thing, or devote yourself to the other-and I would rather devote myself to something that makes food appear on my plate, thank you.